I agree with Lip Ripper as far as harvesting does. I often use this when approaching landowners about permission, that I will harvest does or a big buck. I will ONLY harvest doe to eat and bucks above 130 if presented the oportunity, and many landowners respect that. I have had some want me to check back with them after season and let them know what was removed from breeding stock, and I also like to bring them a couple packages or meat or something else as a small thank you. (Does eat better anyways) Helps greatly with landowner relations. Until I can high fence all the land I hunt however, I need to convinve everyone else of these ideals also.
IDO » Forums » Hunting Forums » Deer Hunting » Here’s some logic for ya….
Here’s some logic for ya….
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August 9, 2005 at 9:33 pm #9226
SupserDave, Just be happy that you have the oportunity presented by the Iowa DNR and don’t live in MN. MN has continually managed its “deer herd” where as IA has managed its “buck herd”. I have hunted both states (yes I payed the $375 for a nonresident license), and can honestly say that moving the hunt out of the rut, letting the big bucks breed, and managing buck tags ahs benefited the herd.
Now all they need to do is work on those nonresident fees so I can buy a license without hiding it from the wife
August 9, 2005 at 9:33 pm #377390SupserDave, Just be happy that you have the oportunity presented by the Iowa DNR and don’t live in MN. MN has continually managed its “deer herd” where as IA has managed its “buck herd”. I have hunted both states (yes I payed the $375 for a nonresident license), and can honestly say that moving the hunt out of the rut, letting the big bucks breed, and managing buck tags ahs benefited the herd.
Now all they need to do is work on those nonresident fees so I can buy a license without hiding it from the wife
August 9, 2005 at 9:34 pm #9227I’m not sure if your a bow hunter or gun hunter and what the Wisconsin regulations are,but I would take out a couple of Does first and then look for your wall hanger,the Does et better anyway.Down here in Illinois I can shoot all the Does I want as long as I buy an over the counter tag for them,and I have the option of shooting 2 bucks.So if you can get the Doe tags without a problem get them taken care of first part of season before rut starts.There is one farm down here that I hunt that the farmer tells me how much money I saved him for each of the deer I shot according to how much corn that deer would of ate out of his fields,last year I think he said it was $25.00 per deer. Good luck with your decision.
August 9, 2005 at 9:34 pm #377391I’m not sure if your a bow hunter or gun hunter and what the Wisconsin regulations are,but I would take out a couple of Does first and then look for your wall hanger,the Does et better anyway.Down here in Illinois I can shoot all the Does I want as long as I buy an over the counter tag for them,and I have the option of shooting 2 bucks.So if you can get the Doe tags without a problem get them taken care of first part of season before rut starts.There is one farm down here that I hunt that the farmer tells me how much money I saved him for each of the deer I shot according to how much corn that deer would of ate out of his fields,last year I think he said it was $25.00 per deer. Good luck with your decision.
August 9, 2005 at 11:36 pm #9231Quote:
What I don’t understand is why ANYONE (aside from maybe first time hunters and parents with their kids along) would shoot a little buck.
Shooting a small 4-6pt buck would do absolutly nothing for me.
Jake you said it yourself it would do nothing for “YOU” I practice QDM whenever I am in the woods and that makes me very happy to know that I am doing my part to insure that I may have a chance to shoot him next year. But I have a buddy that shoots little bucks and does, you know what, he gets just as excited about shooting the does as he does small or medium sized bucks. Although isn’t that why we hunt. Just because my preference is to practice QDM I will never condemn anyone for shooting a small buck. But I will definitely poke a little fun at him Lip is right about doing our part to keep the checks and balances even. Just watch the “Nuge” when he shoots a smaller one and his excitement…….that’s what it’s all about Brad
August 9, 2005 at 11:36 pm #377424Quote:
What I don’t understand is why ANYONE (aside from maybe first time hunters and parents with their kids along) would shoot a little buck.
Shooting a small 4-6pt buck would do absolutly nothing for me.
Jake you said it yourself it would do nothing for “YOU” I practice QDM whenever I am in the woods and that makes me very happy to know that I am doing my part to insure that I may have a chance to shoot him next year. But I have a buddy that shoots little bucks and does, you know what, he gets just as excited about shooting the does as he does small or medium sized bucks. Although isn’t that why we hunt. Just because my preference is to practice QDM I will never condemn anyone for shooting a small buck. But I will definitely poke a little fun at him Lip is right about doing our part to keep the checks and balances even. Just watch the “Nuge” when he shoots a smaller one and his excitement…….that’s what it’s all about Brad
August 10, 2005 at 12:34 am #9205JohnR, i hunt a farm like this and i mean he has crop damage that is real noticeable, how about the first three rows devoide and gone of almost all its corn. He lost a thousand bushels of corn in his estimates that fall when it sold some. He said shoot anything thats walks and he ment it. This farm is full of deer so i sat and counted and counted and sure enough i could have shot alot that walked but i chose to shoot shooters only. This is a heavily hunted area and they shoot the heck out of the bigger bucks and you and the deer are lucky if he racks out nice. If they would take does only for a couple of years it would cut down on the crop damage and it would give the younger bucks a chance to grow into shooters. I hunt until mid winter and if i don’t score a nice buck of atleast 140 i take a doe. Ive shot 2 fawns because of the lateness of the season and i wanted to fill my tag. If your looking for the best loins, steaks and roasts take a fawn and clean it yourself, its like eating veal or loin.
August 10, 2005 at 12:34 am #377159JohnR, i hunt a farm like this and i mean he has crop damage that is real noticeable, how about the first three rows devoide and gone of almost all its corn. He lost a thousand bushels of corn in his estimates that fall when it sold some. He said shoot anything thats walks and he ment it. This farm is full of deer so i sat and counted and counted and sure enough i could have shot alot that walked but i chose to shoot shooters only. This is a heavily hunted area and they shoot the heck out of the bigger bucks and you and the deer are lucky if he racks out nice. If they would take does only for a couple of years it would cut down on the crop damage and it would give the younger bucks a chance to grow into shooters. I hunt until mid winter and if i don’t score a nice buck of atleast 140 i take a doe. Ive shot 2 fawns because of the lateness of the season and i wanted to fill my tag. If your looking for the best loins, steaks and roasts take a fawn and clean it yourself, its like eating veal or loin.
August 10, 2005 at 12:37 am #9202
Quote:
I have a buddy that shoots little bucks and does, you know what, he gets just as excited about shooting the does as he does small or medium sized bucks.
Which is EXACTLY my point……if he’s gonna get the same excitment about shooting a doe compared to a small buck, then shoot the doe…..PASS ON THE SMALL BUCK!!!
Let those bucks grow so he himself will have a chance at them in the future when they are truely HOGS!!! Imagine the excitment he will feel when that day comes
August 10, 2005 at 12:37 am #377143
Quote:
I have a buddy that shoots little bucks and does, you know what, he gets just as excited about shooting the does as he does small or medium sized bucks.
Which is EXACTLY my point……if he’s gonna get the same excitment about shooting a doe compared to a small buck, then shoot the doe…..PASS ON THE SMALL BUCK!!!
Let those bucks grow so he himself will have a chance at them in the future when they are truely HOGS!!! Imagine the excitment he will feel when that day comes
August 10, 2005 at 12:42 am #9228and just for the record…..we also hunt some public land that gets hit HARD by the “type of folk” that will shoot anything that walks by……but you know what, we STILL let the little ones walk…..and I truely believe that over the years this has paid off, as we always get a nice buck or two out of that piece of state woods every year
August 10, 2005 at 12:42 am #377395and just for the record…..we also hunt some public land that gets hit HARD by the “type of folk” that will shoot anything that walks by……but you know what, we STILL let the little ones walk…..and I truely believe that over the years this has paid off, as we always get a nice buck or two out of that piece of state woods every year
August 10, 2005 at 1:23 am #9200Jake this isn’t intended to be an argument. I was just trying to explain to you that your beliefs are not the same as the next guy. You and I gauge our hunt a success a little different than let’s say, my buddy. Aren’t you excited when you shoot one? Well so are they and that is the point, yeah in your/my eyes maybe they should’ve taken a doe, but I’mnot going to be the one to tell someone else what “I” think they should do. I just hope everyone enjoys it as much as I do Again this isn’t intended to be an argument, just my view on this subject.
August 10, 2005 at 1:23 am #377097Jake this isn’t intended to be an argument. I was just trying to explain to you that your beliefs are not the same as the next guy. You and I gauge our hunt a success a little different than let’s say, my buddy. Aren’t you excited when you shoot one? Well so are they and that is the point, yeah in your/my eyes maybe they should’ve taken a doe, but I’mnot going to be the one to tell someone else what “I” think they should do. I just hope everyone enjoys it as much as I do Again this isn’t intended to be an argument, just my view on this subject.
August 10, 2005 at 1:38 am #9199Jake I do agree with you but if you do hunt public land you must realize some times you have a choice to make. A lot of people dont have the oppertunity to hunt private land. I see the argument and am on your side but with public land it gets a little hard to manage. One other thing I should bring up is fawns, lots of post say shoot a fawn instead of that spike. We took a few last year and turns out the were future bucks, which is why maybe fawns should be let pass by too. Its a tough call, like I said I wish they could make a buck tag, the smaller the buck the larger the cost. Unlike fishing season deer season (rife) only last for a short time, I think this brings the attitude of people to shoot what ever walks by cause they really want some thing for there efforts and money spent. Sad to say but thats the way alot of people see it. my 2cents
August 10, 2005 at 1:38 am #377090Jake I do agree with you but if you do hunt public land you must realize some times you have a choice to make. A lot of people dont have the oppertunity to hunt private land. I see the argument and am on your side but with public land it gets a little hard to manage. One other thing I should bring up is fawns, lots of post say shoot a fawn instead of that spike. We took a few last year and turns out the were future bucks, which is why maybe fawns should be let pass by too. Its a tough call, like I said I wish they could make a buck tag, the smaller the buck the larger the cost. Unlike fishing season deer season (rife) only last for a short time, I think this brings the attitude of people to shoot what ever walks by cause they really want some thing for there efforts and money spent. Sad to say but thats the way alot of people see it. my 2cents
August 10, 2005 at 1:52 am #9198Thanks for the replies, will talk with the farmer and get his thoughts. Then take it from there, your ideas make sense about taking the does, which in turn means getting rid of more deer. Maybe that wall-hanger is only a few years away. thanks again–John
August 10, 2005 at 1:52 am #377088Thanks for the replies, will talk with the farmer and get his thoughts. Then take it from there, your ideas make sense about taking the does, which in turn means getting rid of more deer. Maybe that wall-hanger is only a few years away. thanks again–John
August 10, 2005 at 5:39 am #9233Stick boy,
Back when CPR was first getting started, the same debate was taking place. “Why would I put a quality fish back in the water when I know that the next person to catch it is going to do it in anyway?”
It’s a matter of choice. If QDM is the principle you want to practice, practice it. It is entirely possible for that 4 pointer to last be seen by you and you only. There’s a lot of public land hunters but often, they’re not strategists or people with a highly schooled (experienced) eye. I’ve hunted public land before and honestly, having a bunch of boneheads around seemed to help me more than hurt me. More than once, my meat came right behind another hunter!!! The deer are watching the clueless and know when it’s clear to move. If you plan right, meat will come easy on public land.
For a bigger debate, everyone’s so caught up in the pursuit of trophy racks that the focus of what’s best for the herd is being overlooked. We need WAY more hunters harvesting the does. Having too many does is just as “bad” as harvesting an immature buck. We need a few seasons of NO BUCKS.
Yep…….. I said it! Thin down the does and focus solely on the does. Once they’re back in check, do you realize how many trophy bucks will be available for your “wall of fame”? The overall herd is so out of balance right now…. it’s very disheartening. I can shine in SO many areas and see 30 deer or more…… all of them bald! The herds in so many areas are completely out of whack and I’d like to see QDM supporters step up and leave the antlers out of the equation for a season or 3.
I haven’t harvested a buck since 2000…….. and there’s good numbers of quality bucks around where I hunt. I just have no interest in hurting the herd any further. I fill doe tags. Pictures carry the same memories of success as any other hunt has.
“Earn-A-Buck” would have never been designed if TRUE QDM was being excercised.
We’ve come a long way in getting it started, but we have to educate about the whole herd, not just bucks.
August 10, 2005 at 5:39 am #377477Stick boy,
Back when CPR was first getting started, the same debate was taking place. “Why would I put a quality fish back in the water when I know that the next person to catch it is going to do it in anyway?”
It’s a matter of choice. If QDM is the principle you want to practice, practice it. It is entirely possible for that 4 pointer to last be seen by you and you only. There’s a lot of public land hunters but often, they’re not strategists or people with a highly schooled (experienced) eye. I’ve hunted public land before and honestly, having a bunch of boneheads around seemed to help me more than hurt me. More than once, my meat came right behind another hunter!!! The deer are watching the clueless and know when it’s clear to move. If you plan right, meat will come easy on public land.
For a bigger debate, everyone’s so caught up in the pursuit of trophy racks that the focus of what’s best for the herd is being overlooked. We need WAY more hunters harvesting the does. Having too many does is just as “bad” as harvesting an immature buck. We need a few seasons of NO BUCKS.
Yep…….. I said it! Thin down the does and focus solely on the does. Once they’re back in check, do you realize how many trophy bucks will be available for your “wall of fame”? The overall herd is so out of balance right now…. it’s very disheartening. I can shine in SO many areas and see 30 deer or more…… all of them bald! The herds in so many areas are completely out of whack and I’d like to see QDM supporters step up and leave the antlers out of the equation for a season or 3.
I haven’t harvested a buck since 2000…….. and there’s good numbers of quality bucks around where I hunt. I just have no interest in hurting the herd any further. I fill doe tags. Pictures carry the same memories of success as any other hunt has.
“Earn-A-Buck” would have never been designed if TRUE QDM was being excercised.
We’ve come a long way in getting it started, but we have to educate about the whole herd, not just bucks.
August 10, 2005 at 12:27 pm #9235
Quote:
For a bigger debate, everyone’s so caught up in the pursuit of trophy racks that the focus of what’s best for the herd is being overlooked. We need WAY more hunters harvesting the does. Having too many does is just as “bad” as harvesting an immature buck. We need a few seasons of NO BUCKS.
Right on Kid!
Also, just to view my opnion on a topic mentioned above. I do not like taking fawns for a reason that might have been stated above. That fawn could be a button buck and a potential bruiser someday . Unless I’m 100% sure in my mind that that anterless deer walking by is a doe, I will not shoot it, for that reason. I agree tender meat, but I rather make certain that it is a female deer and perhaps miss my opportunity to harvest the animal than take a button buck. Again just my preference.
Which brings up another topic that I debate back in forth each year and that is shooting a doe after the rut. That doe is carrying chances are by nature a doe and a buck. The reason I justify shooting a doe and killing a future buck is after the rut, cause I shoot does to manage the herd. Again shooting a doe takes 3 deer out of the herd. Two females and one male and best controls the population. That is the reason I still shoot does after the rut. It is what’s best for the herd, and that is what we all should be most concerned with
August 10, 2005 at 12:27 pm #377495
Quote:
For a bigger debate, everyone’s so caught up in the pursuit of trophy racks that the focus of what’s best for the herd is being overlooked. We need WAY more hunters harvesting the does. Having too many does is just as “bad” as harvesting an immature buck. We need a few seasons of NO BUCKS.
Right on Kid!
Also, just to view my opnion on a topic mentioned above. I do not like taking fawns for a reason that might have been stated above. That fawn could be a button buck and a potential bruiser someday . Unless I’m 100% sure in my mind that that anterless deer walking by is a doe, I will not shoot it, for that reason. I agree tender meat, but I rather make certain that it is a female deer and perhaps miss my opportunity to harvest the animal than take a button buck. Again just my preference.
Which brings up another topic that I debate back in forth each year and that is shooting a doe after the rut. That doe is carrying chances are by nature a doe and a buck. The reason I justify shooting a doe and killing a future buck is after the rut, cause I shoot does to manage the herd. Again shooting a doe takes 3 deer out of the herd. Two females and one male and best controls the population. That is the reason I still shoot does after the rut. It is what’s best for the herd, and that is what we all should be most concerned with
August 10, 2005 at 1:01 pm #9236
Quote:
I have a buddy that shoots little bucks and does, you know what, he gets just as excited about shooting the does as he does small or medium sized bucks.
Right on Musky I hear you. To each his own. Just cause I QDM and Selective harvest, I cant expect everyone else to do it. Again here remember Jake, it is not illegal to shoot theses smaller/immature bucks. He and everyone else has the right to legally shoot these animals, it is just something I prefer not to do(again my preference, just like a lot of hunting and fishing topics) .
Although, I hear you also Jake. There are many of these same people that shoot these immature Deer and complain that they never see or shoot big bucks. Those are the people I have a problem with, that get into my skin. These are the same people that shoot these immature deer and complain they never get a big one. Yet these typically are the people that do not do their homework, scouting, etc. and just get into a tree and shoot the first buck that walks by on the first day. Not only did they not do their homework they only sit in a stand for a few hours and wonder….. gee…. why don’t I never see a big buck . I log a gazillion hours in a stand each year, scout year around, do all the little things right, scent control to the max from head to toe to equipment I bring in the fiel(some say I’m anal about it, but also complain that they never see big bucks ), hunting stands only when the wind is right, etc. Yes I see big bucks, but it is all about hardwork, doing your homework and constantly thinking of better ways to do things etc. That is what gets and keeps you on big bucks. Screw up one time, is all a buck needs to leave a area. The right land is also a huge bonus, but one of my biggest and most memorable quests,hunts was hunting a huge brusier on Public Land. I hunted this buck hard for 3 years and never got him. The first year I saw him he was around 140 and the last year I saw him he was over 180. No one else harvested him either I believe, cause you would have heard about it. I saw this buck 10 times in 3 years. Talk about elusive. Some while scouting, some while walking the dog and 4 times in my stand on public land. This buck was not only smart , but these brusiers need to be a little lucky also to make it that long. I had this buck coming in just at sunset and was only about 50 yards away, until another hunter decided that he had enough and decided to trample through the woods at the magic time. The buck snorted and took off the same way he came. I asked the guy what he was doing and scared the beep out of him. He said he was not seeing anything so he though he would walk around . Man I was pissed. He was around 155-160 that year. The Kid is right, Public land can hold decent deer, but you need to be able to strategize, among the public, the other less educated hunters, etc. and a little luck always helps, but public land does hold Big bucks. It is just that all the less skilled and novice hunters educate these deer to the max, so they really become smart .
So yes no arguing here, just people that love the outdoors just stating different opinions. This is really a great thread guys. Thanks for sharing!
August 10, 2005 at 1:01 pm #377505
Quote:
I have a buddy that shoots little bucks and does, you know what, he gets just as excited about shooting the does as he does small or medium sized bucks.
Right on Musky I hear you. To each his own. Just cause I QDM and Selective harvest, I cant expect everyone else to do it. Again here remember Jake, it is not illegal to shoot theses smaller/immature bucks. He and everyone else has the right to legally shoot these animals, it is just something I prefer not to do(again my preference, just like a lot of hunting and fishing topics) .
Although, I hear you also Jake. There are many of these same people that shoot these immature Deer and complain that they never see or shoot big bucks. Those are the people I have a problem with, that get into my skin. These are the same people that shoot these immature deer and complain they never get a big one. Yet these typically are the people that do not do their homework, scouting, etc. and just get into a tree and shoot the first buck that walks by on the first day. Not only did they not do their homework they only sit in a stand for a few hours and wonder….. gee…. why don’t I never see a big buck . I log a gazillion hours in a stand each year, scout year around, do all the little things right, scent control to the max from head to toe to equipment I bring in the fiel(some say I’m anal about it, but also complain that they never see big bucks ), hunting stands only when the wind is right, etc. Yes I see big bucks, but it is all about hardwork, doing your homework and constantly thinking of better ways to do things etc. That is what gets and keeps you on big bucks. Screw up one time, is all a buck needs to leave a area. The right land is also a huge bonus, but one of my biggest and most memorable quests,hunts was hunting a huge brusier on Public Land. I hunted this buck hard for 3 years and never got him. The first year I saw him he was around 140 and the last year I saw him he was over 180. No one else harvested him either I believe, cause you would have heard about it. I saw this buck 10 times in 3 years. Talk about elusive. Some while scouting, some while walking the dog and 4 times in my stand on public land. This buck was not only smart , but these brusiers need to be a little lucky also to make it that long. I had this buck coming in just at sunset and was only about 50 yards away, until another hunter decided that he had enough and decided to trample through the woods at the magic time. The buck snorted and took off the same way he came. I asked the guy what he was doing and scared the beep out of him. He said he was not seeing anything so he though he would walk around . Man I was pissed. He was around 155-160 that year. The Kid is right, Public land can hold decent deer, but you need to be able to strategize, among the public, the other less educated hunters, etc. and a little luck always helps, but public land does hold Big bucks. It is just that all the less skilled and novice hunters educate these deer to the max, so they really become smart .
So yes no arguing here, just people that love the outdoors just stating different opinions. This is really a great thread guys. Thanks for sharing!
August 10, 2005 at 1:13 pm #9237Ok Stillakid, now lets take it a step farther and really confuse people . What about these farms that are QDM, do you guys believe in shooting Mature 8 pointers to manage the herd and get the 8 pointers out of the gene breeding pool? What are your thoughts on that?
August 10, 2005 at 1:13 pm #377510Ok Stillakid, now lets take it a step farther and really confuse people . What about these farms that are QDM, do you guys believe in shooting Mature 8 pointers to manage the herd and get the 8 pointers out of the gene breeding pool? What are your thoughts on that?
August 10, 2005 at 3:51 pm #9238I agree with you guys 100% but with that short season and the chance to go home empty handed does not sit well with many people. Wheather your the first or not I think its going to be hard to get people to follow. Just to clarify here so I dont look like the “spike” killer I have only taken 4 bucks since I have started hunting (20 years ago) and several does when permitted and have even ended the season empty handed. 4 bucks 2 last season, second one of the season is on the wall , one about ten years ago and one about 12 years ago. All on public land. I do beleive they exist you just need to spend the time scouting.
The 9 pointer I shot about 12 years ago was taken to get out of breeding stock. He was taken for his tall narrow spead of a bushell rack though. Probalyy only a 12-13in. spread. If he would have been a good quality deer I may have let him pass.
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