Dead tournament fish new livewell Oxygenators fails

  • carroll58
    Twin Cities, USA
    Posts: 2094
    #1633897

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Munchy wrote:</div>
    Or at the very least have CPR tournaments.

    Every tournament held should be catch, weigh, picture with length and immediate release

    With Club events, they could do like my Club, “Sportsmens Bassmasters of Minnesota” and buy digital Scales. We may measure, but weigh each fish and co-angler in the boat verifies weight and writes your weight down and you write theirs down. fish are released right away and not subjected to small livewells.

    Our tournament Committee got a 10# weight and tested each scale, the entered that into an Excel Spreadsheet to calibrate the weights. Yes, they all vary slightly so official weights come after they are entered into the Tournament directors spreadsheet.

    Granted, we have a few bugs in our rules to work out for when someone is fishing alone.

    I don’t think this would work in a Money Tourney unless you have someone as a Marshall in each boat to verify the weights. Maybe a few Marshall’s travelling by boat to verify weights on the water so fish are not subject to livewell for more than an hour or two.

    munchy
    NULL
    Posts: 4931
    #1633898

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Tom Sawvell wrote:</div>

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Munchy wrote:</div>
    Or at the very least have CPR tournaments.

    Every tournament held should be catch, weigh, picture with length and immediate release

    With Club events, they could do like my Club, “Sportsmens Bassmasters of Minnesota” and buy digital Scales. We may measure, but weigh each fish and co-angler in the boat verifies weight and writes your weight down and you write theirs down. fish are released right away and not subjected to small livewells.

    Our tournament Committee got a 10# weight and tested each scale, the entered that into an Excel Spreadsheet to calibrate the weights. Yes, they all vary slightly so official weights come after they are entered into the Tournament directors spreadsheet.

    Granted, we have a few bugs in our rules to work out for when someone is fishing alone.

    I don’t think this would work in a Money Tourney unless you have someone as a Marshall in each boat to verify the weights. Maybe a few Marshall’s travelling by boat to verify weights on the water so fish are not subject to livewell for more than an hour or two.

    Which is why picture tourneys are perfect. Everyone gets a certified ruler at the start. Every fish caught gets measured, the angler adds up and submits the top 5 fish. No cheating since every fish entered is visually recorded. If the quality of the image or measurement is not legal according to the rules then that fish is disqualified.

    Also I have found the same scale weight can be off considerably on the same fish just by re-weighing again 15 seconds later. This completely eliminates a questionable weight.

    bigpike
    Posts: 6259
    #1633920

    I’ll never get the 5 or so minutes back in my life spent reading all this nonsense smirk

    Eelpoutguy
    Farmington, Outing
    Posts: 10426
    #1633921

    I’ll never get the 5 or so minutes back in my life spent reading all this nonsense smirk

    x2

    c_w
    central MN
    Posts: 202
    #1633932

    Nothing here adds up. AllanM you call out bass anglers and their live wells as being killers yet you are using a ten gallon cooler for your live well hauling in your huge bag to the scales??? I’m sorry but you shouldnt have been allowed to fish without a livewell that worked. No tournament officials would ever say that’s good enough and let you go.

    You’ve posted how easy it is to keep fish alive in the past and you’ve cut and pasted a lot of the same links and paragraphs here before. What is your deal? You never paid over $200 for an Oxygenator because they retail for under 150. Can we see a picture of how you rigged it into that cooler?

    The basic rule of thumb is one pound per gallon. How big was the winning weight that you lost to that prompted your rant?

    CW

    AllanM
    Posts: 29
    #1633941

    CW, Presenting fishery science and published scientific facts here is not “calling out” anyone, don’t be confused.

    Sure, it all adds up, it’s based of current fishery facts, not fishing product literature designed by salesmen to sell products and daily hatchery live fish trans[port practices, it’s perfectly logical and keeps fish alive and healthy for hours during transports.

    It’s all only a click away with a simple Google search. The bew fishery science is not the old old fishermen’s myths about keeping fish alive in boat livewells and bait tanks that we have heard and been told by Popi, Dad, our fishing buddies and the local boat salesmen for years to date. And a bass presented DOA in the Ranger boat livewell with the oxygenator humming perfectly at the 4 PM weigh-in last July.

    And you don’t have to be a college educated fishery biologist to grasp the vital importance of insuring minimal safe water quality in any livewell or bait tank every time when you are transporting live tournament bass or live bait fish any time of the year, especially in the summer like right now.

    It is vitally import to know and understand what a Livewell really is and the minimal safe water quality requirements for any livewell – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Livewell

    “A livewell is a box used to transport live aquatic animals; shrimp, baitfish and mature fish, saltwater or freshwater species. A livewell should be made of materials that are non- toxic to aquatic animals. The shape may be square, rectangular, oval or round. The box may be insulated, portable, have a drain and lid. Maintaining minimal safe water quality standards in livewell water is essential and necessary to insure a safe habitat for all the captive animals during transport. When transporting baitfish, shrimp or mature fish, maintaining dissolved oxygen saturation (DO Sat) is the single most important water quality parameter that must be controlled. Livewell oxygen–injection systems and LOX systems insure O2 enriched livewell water. Pure 100% compressed welding oxygen is injected into the water with a precision dose adjustable high-pressure oxygen regulator, oxygen tube and diffuser. Commercial and sport fishing oxygen-injection systems are designed to insure 100% DO Saturation or greater whether the bait or fish load is 1 lb or >1000 lbs. Minimal safe EPA water quality standards for steady state environments (rivers, lakes, ponds, etc.) is 5 ppm DO.

    Dissolved oxygen is the single most important factor for keeping bass alive, and an understanding of factors that affect oxygen levels will better enable anglers to keep their fish [aquatic animals] alive. At a moderate water temperature of 70˚F, 100 percent oxygen saturation is 8.8 mg/l of oxygen, whereas at the higher temperature of 80˚F, 100 percent saturation is 7.9 mg/l. Both of these 100 percent saturation oxygen levels are suitable for keeping bass alive. Without injecting oxygen into the livewell, it is very difficult to supply enough oxygen to keep alive heavier tournament limits. Oxygen injection has long been used by Texas Parks and Wildlife Department (TPWD) hatcheries to maintain the health of fish being stocked into reservoirs. Fisheries staff regularly transport or hold fish in ratios equal to or greater than one pound of fish to a gallon of water. However, boat manufactures do not offer oxygen injection system options… Proper installation and operation of an oxygen injection system will ensure oxygen levels remain above the preferred level of 7 mg/l even when livewells contain heavy limits.”
    If any livewell [or live bait tank], ice chest or a plastic 5 gallon bait bucket cannot maintain continuous minimal safe water quality for live fish or live bait — it is called a “death well.” Bass and live bait will die or become red-nose and sickly during transport.

    A “death well” is common on boats every summer. Death wells often cannot maintain nor insure minimal safe water quality required to keep heavy limits of bass alive during transport in the summer. The proof is mortality at the weigh-in, gills flared and no gill movement and the dreaded “dead fish punishment.”

    You have totally missed the point. It makes absolutely no difference what the box (livewell) is made of, the brand, shape, color or price. What makes the difference is the fisherman transporting the live fish that is operating the well, your ability to maintain minimal safe livewell water quality continuously inside that box loaded with fish for the duration of the transport, 5 hrs, 8 hrs, 24 hrs all day…

    Maintaining minimal safe livewell water quality is relatively simple provided you know how to do that. The shiner bait dealers know about the vital importance of water quality because he deals with it every day and his livelihood is dependent on his ability keeping his shiners alive and in excellent health.

    He sells live shiners to fishermen every day, puts the live fish in a small plastic bag with a quart of water, fills the gas space inside the bag with a quart of oxygen, seals the bag and the customer transports that bag of live shiners 2 -3 hours or more to his fishing spot miles away and none of those shiners die or even get sickly in that little bag with 1 quart of water in it that the bait dealer provided.

    How in the world can a lonely shiner bait dealer make that work so good and keep all those shiners alive and healthy so well for the fisherman every summer? … the shiner dealer is an expert when it comes to water quality in that little plastic bag full of shiners because none of those shiners die or get red-nose or sickly for a 2 -3 hour transport in that little bag of water.

    That can be hard if not impossible to understand. How and why that shiner dealer can keep all those shiners alive and healthy for hours for the fisherman in that little bag with a quart of water requires some creative thinking and understanding beyond what the average fisherman understands about the importance of water wuality and the minimal importance of brand of boat livewell or brand and cost of a bait tank.

    Creativity – An Overview/Thinking outside the box https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Creativity_-_An_Overview/Thinking_outside_the_box

    Are you familiar with the 9 Dots Puzzle? Check it out too – http://www.brainstorming.co.uk/puzzles/ninedotsnj.html

    This is a great exercise for developing creative thinking capabilities. It is also a great “bar game.”
    J
    ust for clarity so there is no misunderstanding… most bass boats have 2 livewells. One 1 ($150) oxygenator in each bass boat livewell are 2 ($150) oxygenators. Two oxygenators for 1 bass boat with 2 livewells actually cost $300… right? Not $200.

    I was short $100 on that estimate, that’s all. Thanks for the heads up on the total cost for 2 bass boat oxygenators.

    Pretty interesting topic for the fishermen interested in the fishery science and factual approach to live fish transports don’t you think?

    And all this live fish transport information is only 1 click away on Google for folks that are interested transporting live bass and live bait fish successfully all day in hot July-August weather.

    c_w
    central MN
    Posts: 202
    #1633946

    Read your first post. Maybe you can’t remember what you cut and pasted but it’s right there. You call out bass boats and your lost winning fish. You said a salesman lied and sold you an Oxygenator? Now you say you didn’t and your actually $100 short on your estimated cost?.?

    Walleyestudent Andy Cox
    Garrison MN-Mille Lacs
    Posts: 4484
    #1633954

    I’ll never get the 5 or so minutes back in my life spent reading all this nonsense smirk

    I know, it is just some kind of morbid curiosity I have that keeps bringing me back to see if it can any stranger than it already is. hah

    AllanM
    Posts: 29
    #1633958

    Read your first post. Maybe you can’t remember what you cut and pasted but it’s right there. You call out bass boats and your lost winning fish. You said a salesman lied and sold you an Oxygenator? Now you say you didn’t and your actually $100 short on your estimated cost?.?

    To be clear, oxygenators were evaluated scientifically by professional fishery biologist working for Texas Parks & Wildlife Depart, Inland Fisheries Division. This research is a 3rd party evaluation of this popular livewell oxygenation product. I can certainly see that this 3rd party scientific published scientific research may easily be considered “calling out” the AquaInnovations livewell oxygen generator.

    I can certainly see where this research can be very offensive, a real downer for some bass fishermen and live bait fishermen that bought and used oxygenators. They were simply sold on the fact that the salesmen claim that they generate 100% O2.

    And, it is a fact that the electrolysis of water does generate pure 100% O2 and 100% pure hydrogen.

    Marketing and salesmanship is the sales magic that catches the fisherman. What the salesman or sales literature does not say is that the oxygenators do not generate enough 100% oxygen to insure minimal safe DO Saturation for a livewell full of bass or bait, especially in the summer.

    Like Nancy Pelosi said about ObamaCare a few years ago, trust me, don’t read it, buy it and then we will see if it will works. And many people bought it, tried it and found that ObamaCare is not as it was advertised and is not working at all for them after they bought it. They were not informant buyers and believed the saleswoman.

    Here is the TP&WD Inland Fisheries Division testing and research that really busted the electrolysis type livewell oxygenators.

    I can see where a less scientific fisherman would call this a “rant” too. AquaInnovations Oxygenator – How Effective is It – by Fishery Biologist Randy Myers TPWD, Inland Fisheries Division, San Antonio, TX Publication 2-14-2012 http://www.slideshare.net/raminlandfish/the-oxygenator-how-effective-is-it

    Oxygenator salesmen and bass boat dealers will never mention this 3rd party evaluation even when ask directly about this. Try asking, see what the oxygenator salesman says.

    TP&WD simply scientifically tested the Aqua Innovations livewell oxygen generator and then published their research findings on the internet, that’s all they did. These fishery experts found that the O2 generator simply did not generate enough oxygen to satisfy the oxygen demand for heavy load of fish and that the generator was basically less efficient that water pumps or air bubblers.

    More fish in a livewell consume more oxygen, less fish consume less oxygen. All fishery biologist know this and a few fishermen also know this too.

    So I guess you might say the oxygenator was scientifically exposed by a couple of fishery biologist at Texas Parks & Wildlife Department, Inland Fishery Division.

    People that sell and have bought livewell oxygen generators might call those fishery biologist that tested and published their findings about the Aqua Innovations livewell oxygenators “whistle-blowers on a real rant.”

    The fishery facts about the Aqua Innovation oxygenators are certainly not conducive to sales for sure, especially after a potential customer knows the TP&WD side of this equation through unbiased 3rd party scientific testing by State fishery experts.

    These biologist could definitely be called whistle-blowers and I guess you could call this a TP&WD research a “rant” after reading their published research.

    c_w
    central MN
    Posts: 202
    #1633960

    So your saying this whole post has been a fraud??

    You never lost a fish using a Oxygenator?

    You never lost the winning bass in a massive tournament bag?

    Your whole point of this was to lie and repost some third party research on a product that you have never used?

    I hope the moderators take care of you and your spam. This is the same stuff you posted last year. What is your underlying motive here?

    AllanM
    Posts: 29
    #1633964

    So your saying this whole post has been a fraud??

    You never lost a fish using a Oxygenator?

    You never lost the winning bass in a massive tournament bag?

    Your whole point of this was to lie and repost some third party research on a product that you have never used?

    I hope the moderators take care of you and your spam. This is the same stuff you posted last year. What is your underlying motive here?

    Some folks are not in tune with fishery science and deny thst science. This fishery research can be very intimidating for some fishermen because it doe’s not comply with the sales literature and often scientific material can be way to complicated for some fishermen. Some fishermen do poorly with science and totally reject it. Know what I mean cw? Others with similar mind sets and attitude vehemently reject current fishery science like this too.

    Enjoy the rest of your summer.

    Eelpoutguy
    Farmington, Outing
    Posts: 10426
    #1633970

    I actually had a dream about this post last night, so when I woke up I read it again.
    Dang It, now there’s 10 minutes I’ll never get back.

    Walleyestudent Andy Cox
    Garrison MN-Mille Lacs
    Posts: 4484
    #1633979

    And they are in the world and all around us…

    Attachments:
    1. Steps-to-Stop-Being-a-Crazy-Person.jpg

    munchy
    NULL
    Posts: 4931
    #1633981

    Crazy….

    c_w
    central MN
    Posts: 202
    #1633997

    AllanM you obviously don’t get it. I have no problem with a product review of any kind. Positive, Negetive, indifferent. What I do have a problem with is your blatant lie about everything here.

    I have real life experience keeping large bagimits alive for many hours. It’s not a one step operation. Several things have to be done to ensure that at 3 your limit is safely able to make the scales.

    You on the other hand have as far as I can guess ZERO experience but you’ve clicked your way into being an expert. You stated that you bought something that didn’t work, plain and simple, ok. You state that your winning bag still died, ok. You posted that you used ice and additives, great! That all came from your first post. Then I tricked you into posting your set up. Bam all that went away? Your a using a cooler with a pump you throw over the side and adding softener salt???

    You’ve cut and pasted your way into being a complete fraud. The science that you posted may be valid but bias. Everything else is just made up.

    Hopefully the mods squash this blatant lie from this site.

    CW

    munchy
    NULL
    Posts: 4931
    #1633999

    Also if you look back into his previous posts, he has only started threads regarding livewell oxygen. And he has only replied in thread regarding livewells.

    Either this guy has some absurd livewell fetish. Or he has been spamming us trying to sell a livewell oxygen generator and knocking the biggest competition.

    skinnywater
    Posts: 118
    #1634154

    I went back through this thread and did a shot each time I saw the word science…fun drinking game

    munchy
    NULL
    Posts: 4931
    #1634202

    Coincidentally this video just popped up in my YouTube feed. This guy gives some great tips on keeping fish alive, though he doesn’t seem to fully know how the oxygenator works when he talks about it, but he hardly uses it anyway.

    Check it out, hopefully everyone learns something from it.

    munchy
    NULL
    Posts: 4931
    #1634204

    I went back through this thread and did a shot each time I saw the word science…fun drinking game

    And you’re still ALIVE?!? You must not be using an Oxygenator then?

    Gary Law
    Ohio
    Posts: 57
    #1634233

    Was just an insulated round 13 gallon tank (Blue Wave brand) tank that I would keep big Shad alive for over 48 hours with a dash of Shad keep & ice.

    Brian Klawitter
    Keymaster
    Minnesota/Wisconsin Mississippi River
    Posts: 59992
    #1634253

    ^ Now we’re talking! Without a shad tank they are dead shad. waytogo

    belletaine
    Nevis, MN
    Posts: 5116
    #1634713

    I think Allen is actually JD Winston….
    Either way the 200,000 word limit per thread has been exceeded.

    There is definitely an agenda lurking around, I can smell it. It smells kinda like a dead bass…

    basseyes
    Posts: 2509
    #1634791

    Is it still for sale?

    And are you willing to trade for an old ten speed bike and a couple old tires?

    Eelpoutguy
    Farmington, Outing
    Posts: 10426
    #1634797

    I think Allen is actually JD Winston….
    Either way the 200,000 word limit per thread has been exceeded.

    Now that’s funny right there I don’t care who you are.

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