WI DNR Clarification of MN-WI Border Water Regs

  • steve-demars
    Stillwater, Minnesota
    Posts: 1906
    #1228179

    Your attention is invited to a 28 February St Croix forum post by King 185 subject: ? How many lines are allowed on the Croix? We seem to wrestle with this discussion about this time every year and I figured it was time to chase down the guy who could give us a definitive answer. I navigated the WI DNR website sending an e-mail to the St Croix / Pierce County DNR Point of Contact on fishing regulations. That person forwarded my e-mail to David Hausman, Warden Supervisor for the Lower St Croix Team. I sent a rather lengthy e-mail but the meat and potatoes of it asked these 3 questions.

    Could you clarify these questions for us:

    #1: How many lines may a licensed resident Wisconsin fisherman use on the designated Wisconsin-Minnesota border waters?

    #2: Is there any requirement that restricts a licensed resident Wisconsin fisherman from using 3 lines while fishing on the Minnesota side of the designated Wisconsin-Minnesota border waters?

    #3: Is there any way of determining what is the defining line on border waters which would identify the Wisconsin side and the Minnesota side of the waterway?

    This is David Hausman’s e-mail response to my questions:

    Steve,

    I am responding to your question about differing regulations and number of lines. First of all ideally all of the regs would be the same, but unfortunately they are not. WI and MN have a reciprocity agreement for angling licenses which as you know allows anglers to fish anywhere in the border waters with either states license. Residents of MN or WI must use their home states lic. and non-residents may use either states lic. Where regulations differ anglers may only exercise the more liberal regulation within that states portion. So an angler may use 3 lines or baits in Wis. portion and 2 in MN portion. This is what WI law states and what past case law also says. MN DNR fishing pamphlets state that anglers must follow the rules of the state they are licensed in. We have been attempting to get this ironed out with MN so that current case law is followed, which basically says that if a person is on one states territorial waters and is complying with that states regulations the adjoining states more restrictive regulations can not be enforced on that person. In other words if a person is in Wisconsin’s territorial waters and is following WI law MN laws cannot be imposed on that person regardless of where they are from or which state they are licensed in. The center of the navigational channels is the line between the two states, a good USGS map will show the main channels and boundary of the states. We use the same line for enforcing Hunting regulations which are not governed by a reciprocity agreement. Hope this helps. If you are unsure if you are in WI or MN waters use no more than 2 lines/baits.

    David A. Hausman

    Warden Supervisor-Lower St Croix Team

    Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources

    890 Spruce St.

    Baldwin WI 54002

    phone: (715) 684-2914

    fax: (715) 684-5940

    e-mail: [email protected]

    I would like to thank Dave Hausman for his prompt response to my questions. He got this e-mail late on Tuesday, 4 March and I got his reply while I was sitting at my computer at about 6:50 pm that evening. Dave must have been answering his day’s e-mails in the evening after a long day. Thanks, Dave – your answer clarifies things for a lot of border water anglers.

    To my friend, Mark Johnson – I owe you a beer and I stand corrected on my interpretations of the WI fishing regulations. I think I will stop interpreting regulations before I end up with a costly citation.

    eye_hunter
    Posts: 517
    #662012

    so that means that me, a MN angler with MN license can use three lines if fishing from Wisconsin side of the water right. it does not matter what license i have, i am able to fish with Wisconsin regulation from Wisconsin side.

    jon_jordan
    St. Paul, Mn
    Posts: 10908
    #662013

    Quote:


    which basically says that if a person is on one states territorial waters and is complying with that states regulations the adjoining states more restrictive regulations can not be enforced on that person. In other words if a person is in Wisconsin’s territorial waters and is following WI law MN laws cannot be imposed on that person regardless of where they are from or which state they are licensed in.


    ….yeah…..but…..Minnesota law is more restrive than Wisconsin. So, that statement make no sense!! Let’s face it, we already know a Minnesota licensed residents can’t fish 3 lines anywhere on the St Croix!

    Here is the tooth and nail question. And it needs to be answered by both the Mn and WI DNR, the Coast Guard, the National Parks Service, the Ramsey County Sheriff, The Pierce County Sheriff. Will one of these law enforcement agencies bust a WI licensed resident on the Minnesota side of the river for fishing 3 lines!!!

    -J.

    steve-demars
    Stillwater, Minnesota
    Posts: 1906
    #662018

    Jon – I asked the question from a Wisconsin point of view not a Minnesota point of view. His answer was based on a WI anglers requirements. You have to keep the sentence in context with the point being made:

    What he said is – We have been attempting to get this ironed out with MN so that current case law is followed, which basically says that if a person is on one states territorial waters and is complying with that states regulations the adjoining states more restrictive regulations can not be enforced on that person.

    They are trying to protect the WI angler so if you are a WI angler MN’s more restrictive regulations cannot be enforced on that person.

    absolute2ks
    Chippewa Falls, WI
    Posts: 674
    #662021

    Quote:


    Quote:


    which basically says that if a person is on one states territorial waters and is complying with that states regulations the adjoining states more restrictive regulations can not be enforced on that person. In other words if a person is in Wisconsin’s territorial waters and is following WI law MN laws cannot be imposed on that person regardless of where they are from or which state they are licensed in.


    ….yeah…..but…..Minnesota law is more restrive than Wisconsin. So, that statement make no sense!!

    Here is the tooth and nail question. And it needs to be answered by both the Mn and WI DNR, the Coast Guard, the National Parks service, the Ramsey County Sheriff, The Pierce County Sheriff. Will one of these law enforcement agencies bust a WI licensed resident on the Minnesota side of the river for fishing 3 lines!!!

    -J.


    I think what he is saying Jon is if you want to play the game you can fish 3 lines on the WI half of the river with a MN license because the MN DNR can not site on the WI side.

    Do this at your own risk that might be the law or agreement but you may be talking a day off of work and your favorite attorney to prove it.

    jon_jordan
    St. Paul, Mn
    Posts: 10908
    #662026

    Right, a WI CO should not be on the Mn side enforcing the law.

    I was surprise by the answer. The imaginary line is where the rules change? But let’s remember why this comes up every year…and that answer is not an answer!

    Here is another question. Will a WI CO bust a MN licensed resident for fishing 3 lines on thier side? Will a Mn CO bust a WI res for fishing 3 on the Mn side? I really don’t care either way, but that answer was not what I expected to hear and still leaves room for cunfusion.

    Can’t wait for a WI CO to check a Minnesota license that clearly reads “Expires February 29, 2008” and is still good till April 30th…..

    -J.

    mark_johnson
    St. Croix River
    Posts: 940
    #662028

    Steve, I’ll take you up on that beer only because Im sure we could do that and get some fishin’ in at the same time this summer . But, I read that one part the same way as Fish4fun did?? Hmmm….

    Quote:


    Will one of these law enforcement agencies bust a WI licensed resident on the Minnesota side of the river for fishing 3 lines!!!


    According to WI DNR they told me they would not, and said that MN did have authority to do so for stated reason below

    Quote:


    We have been attempting to get this ironed out with MN so that current case law is followed, which basically says that if a person is on one states territorial waters and is complying with that states regulations the adjoining states more restrictive regulations can not be enforced on that person.


    Lets all have beers The reality is that it is very hard to fish 3 lines at one time from the boat and two guys with 6 lines is just a mess

    absolute2ks
    Chippewa Falls, WI
    Posts: 674
    #662033

    Quote:


    Here is another question. Will a WI CO bust a MN licensed resident for fishing 3 lines on thier side? Will a Mn CO bust a WI res for fishing 3 on the Mn side? I really don’t care either way, but that answer was not what I expected to hear and still leaves room for cunfusion.

    -J.


    Answer… WI guy is busted, MN guy is fine

    big-bird
    Prescott, WI
    Posts: 120
    #662030

    Th way I read it is a Mn. fisherman with a Mn. license can use three lines while fishing in Wi. waters …

    absolute2ks
    Chippewa Falls, WI
    Posts: 674
    #662034

    Quote:


    Th way I read it is a Mn. fisherman with a Mn. license can use three lines while fishing in Wi. waters …


    Yes… on the WI Half of the Border water.

    But before you do it, make sure the MN Co agrees with this WI CO.

    jon_jordan
    St. Paul, Mn
    Posts: 10908
    #662039

    Cool. I need to find all of the imaginary lines…. I suspect everyone fishing the Dam at Red Wing and the entire WI channel is OK to fish 3 lines. Everyone! Need more rods now…..

    -J.

    G_Smitty
    New Richmond, WI
    Posts: 1359
    #662048

    Hey Steve,

    Thanks for the follow-up on this… still seems pretty confusing to me. So does a MN CO have the authority to board my boat and issue a ticket to me (a WI resident with a WI license) if I’m fishing three lines on the “MN Side” of the Croix? If so, I’ll be careful to stay on the WI side if I decide to fish three lines…

    as you stated in a later post, it’s quite tough for an angler alone to fish three lines and if two guys are in the boat, six lines is just plain asking for trouble… The only time I’d run three lines is if I’m trolling or pulling spinners through an area looking for fish.

    The most relevant portion of the WI DNR guy’s note was the part about how WI DNR is trying to get MN DNR to talk and decide on a single set of rules that works for all… how tough could this be???

    If I were a MN guy, I would NEVER fish three lines – your regs are quite clear that you’re only allowed two lines per angler….

    Glenn

    Brian Klawitter
    Keymaster
    Minnesota/Wisconsin Mississippi River
    Posts: 59992
    #662051

    King, having laws that are less confusing between states is easy…one of the states has to give in to the others law. Done deal…not going to happen.

    Ps when fishing alone I would LOVE to have three rods out. One with a bully, one cut bait and one with a worm.

    cougareye
    Hudson, WI
    Posts: 4145
    #662071

    Very confusing…and to muddy the waters further, what state are the Parks officers and Coast Guard representing? Are they federal officers? You see everything on the Croix, Coast Guard, State Park guys, Washington County, St. Croix county, WI & MN,

    I will say however that they are VERY fair and IMO as long as you’re trying to do the right thing, I haven’t seen them yet try to get you on a technicality. I’m checked on the Croix about 50% of the time.

    Eric

    eye_hunter
    Posts: 517
    #662104

    maybe we should contact a MN CO and get his view on this. the reason i say this is that different CO view interpret the rules differently, and it might be different from MN CO. this should be done just for the heck of it so we know that they agree or disagree. if they disagree than i will never use 3 lines, i can maybe prove that it is ok, but like they mention it will take a autorney and one day off work.

    Jack Naylor
    Apple Valley, MN
    Posts: 5668
    #662111

    A MN licence holder fishing with 3 lines on the WI side is just asking for trouble, and deserves any ticket he/she receives. period.

    MN Reg says 2 lines on the St Croix River.

    Sounds straight forward to me..
    Jack.

    Mudshark
    LaCrosse WI
    Posts: 2973
    #662125

    Last year I contacted CO’s from both states in my stretch of the Mississippi-pools 7,8,9 ….

    These were their responses (In blue)

    E-Mail

    mudlizard
    st. marys pt. MN
    Posts: 117
    #662137

    He can, if he does’nt get checked by a C.O. officer. then he will pay.

    jon_jordan
    St. Paul, Mn
    Posts: 10908
    #662163

    Quote:


    A MN licence holder fishing with 3 lines on the WI side is just asking for trouble, and deserves any ticket he/she receives. period.

    MN Reg says 2 lines on the St Croix River.

    Sounds straight forward to me..
    Jack.


    I don’t agree, Jack. If you can legally fish 3 lines, why not? I’m going to start!

    -J.

    mark_johnson
    St. Croix River
    Posts: 940
    #662190

    The way I see it is that a MN res Lic. is always in violation if fishing 3 lines on the MN side and from there it gets muddy-
    Russ Wilson, Dave Hausman and Rick Rosen(all WI DNR officers)should all agree in writing because I interpret their interpretations as all just a little bit different .

    jon_jordan
    St. Paul, Mn
    Posts: 10908
    #662191

    Seems very clear to me. Any licensed angler can fish 3 lines on the WI side of border waters. Plan, simple, no mud.

    -J.

    mark_johnson
    St. Croix River
    Posts: 940
    #662218

    I get the feeling you are dying to argue your point to the DNR on the water this year….could be costly my friend .

    suzuki
    Woodbury, Mn
    Posts: 18609
    #662222

    Minn allows 2 lines on Croix but only 1 line state wide?
    Imaginary line?? Queue the circus music please…..

    protourbaits
    stillwater, MN
    Posts: 2466
    #662253

    i haven’t read the entire rules what Steve posted, but is this 3 line law new this year or has it always been in effect for WI anglers or the river?? If it has always been this way, why haven’t more people been using 3 lines

    jon_jordan
    St. Paul, Mn
    Posts: 10908
    #662260

    Nothing new. Always been this way.

    -J.

    protourbaits
    stillwater, MN
    Posts: 2466
    #662289

    quick question Jon, do you have a son named Ryan??

    jon_jordan
    St. Paul, Mn
    Posts: 10908
    #662311

    Quote:


    quick question Jon, do you have a son named Ryan??


    No.

    eye_hunter
    Posts: 517
    #662364

    you know its really dumb once i think about this imaginary border line. no matter where you fish on the croix you are still just fishing the same body of water and the same batch of fish. so it is stupid that its against the law on mn side to use 3 lines, while a few feet away across the imaginary line you can use 3.

    suzuki
    Woodbury, Mn
    Posts: 18609
    #662370

    Of course its stupid. But honestly, how many people does this negativaly affect? I would never use 3 lines for any fishing I do out there. If I troll alone 2 lines is plenty to handle and 4 is plenty if someone is with me. I know there area exceptions but I’m guessing the overwhelming majority of people fishing the Croix would not use more than 2 lines if they could.

    (of course just about everyone who would is probably on this website and about to bear down on my post)

    protourbaits
    stillwater, MN
    Posts: 2466
    #662429

    The only time i would use 3 lines is for catfishing 1 cut bait 1 sucker 1 with a ball of nightcrawlers

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