Connecting with the short hitters- what's wrong?

OK,
I have been stumped with the walleye bite trying to get a good hook set. I’m using jig and live bait, drifting 3 ways/live bait, back trolling 3 ways, etc… 9 times out of 10 when I set the hook, nothing. My bait is bit off just behind the hook.
I’ve switched to larger/smaller hooks, (#2-6 Gamakatsu) larger/smaller jig weights and gap openings, using a spinner rig on the 3 way, nothing seems to be helping.! It’s driving me crazy! I don’t recall having this issue in the past years.
Anyone have a suggestion as what I should change? I haven’t tried a small stinger yet, that’s next.

Just to clarify, I’m on Pool 4.

Thanks in advance,
Don

I’m no Walleye expert Don, but a stinger would absolutely be my first tactic

You did not mention giving the fish more nibble time.
Sometimes how you “set” the hook will make all the difference from day to day, lake to lake, time of year and also fishing method used.

One method I learned with 3 ways it to let the fish nibble for a bit as you slowly drop the rod tip back then just hold the rod and let the boats motion sink the hook, other times I have defiantly noticed that the action of the rod seemed to be the main factor in light biters. I recommend trying different methods of “setting” the hook as something to consider. It can be frustrating at times but when you get it figured out it is very rewarding.

slab-hunter wrote:

OK,
I have been stumped with the walleye bite trying to get a good hook set. I’m using jig and live bait, drifting 3 ways/live bait, back trolling 3 ways, etc… 9 times out of 10 when I set the hook, nothing. My bait is bit off just behind the hook.
I’ve switched to larger/smaller hooks, (#2-6 Gamakatsu) larger/smaller jig weights and gap openings, using a spinner rig on the 3 way, nothing seems to be helping.! It’s driving me crazy! I don’t recall having this issue in the past years.
Anyone have a suggestion as what I should change? I haven’t tried a small stinger yet, that’s next.

Just to clarify, I’m on Pool 4.

Thanks in advance,
Don

@Donnie

In my experience the vast majority of time that I’m seeing consistent “short biters” I’m on a school of runts.

You mentioned “9 times out of 10 when I set the hook, nothing. My bait is bit off just behind the hook.” My question is, what are you seeing the other 1 out of 10 times? Quality fish? And by quality I mean 18″ – 20″ or better? Or are you boating 13″ – 16″ fish that 1 time out of 10?

If you’re boating small fish when you do connect, I’d leave and wouldn’t give it a second thought.

If, when you do connect that 1 out of 10 times, you’re boating quality fish, then you’ve got a choice to make. If that’s the case my instinct would be to go away from livebait presentations completely. If you’re struggling to get mature fish to eat a minnow, crawler or leech I’ve been far more successful switching up to a more aggressive presentation like trolling cranks, casting rippin raps, snap jigging hair jigs or plastics versus slowing down even more with a livebait presentation the fish clearly aren’t responding well to.

My 2-cents.

As James mentioned, probably small fish. Small saugers are notorious for grabbing a minnow and just hanging on so when you set the hook, bait gone or torn in half.

As far as the stinger goes, a wise man down on the river once told me “If you have to use a stinger hook, those aren’t the fish you are looking for”. That was the last day I used a stinger hook. I made sure that if I was getting looked for better fish in other locations. The advice has made me a better fisherman I think.

Yep, I don’t even own a stinger any more. I agree with the small fish assessment, or if you are catching a few and they’re decent, you probably need to try a different technique to trigger a more aggressive bite.

rmartin wrote:

As James mentioned, probably small fish. Small saugers are notorious for grabbing a minnow and just hanging on so when you set the hook, bait gone or torn in half.

I would wager my last stinger hook that the culprit is small sauger. As rmartin says they are well known for that “trickery”. Thing is, there still can be the occasional good walleye mixed in there that you get once in a while that will inhale your jig…no stinger needed. I have experienced this exact thing in Canada.

James Holst wrote:

My question is, what are you seeing the other 1 out of 10 times? Quality fish? And by quality I mean 18″ – 20″ or better? Or are you boating 13″ – 16″ fish that 1 time out of 10?

James, the 1 out of 10 usually are the smaller fish.
As all of you mentioned, I’m probably wasting my time working for the 1 or 2 quality fish in the school. I’ll move on or work them over with cranks and plastics next time out, see what happens.
How long do you typically spend on a location/fish size like this before moving?

Thanks guys!
Don

One of the best threads I’ve read in a while…very good question and quality feedback from everyone who chimed in.

How does rod action figure into this? As I understand it, a Walleye sucks in the bait, they don’t hammer it like a Pike. If your rod and line are really stiff then the fish comes up behind your presentation and tires to suck it in and it can’t move, so they strike short. A softer tip on the rod would allow that fish to slurp it up easier.

When I first started fishing Pool 2 I had a collection of stiff heavy spinning rods I used to throw plastic worms at Largemouth. It didn’t work very well. When I went to a medium light rod with a softer action, my percentages when way up.

SR

slab-hunter wrote:

How long do you typically spend on a location/fish size like this before moving?

Thanks guys!
Don

One pass is likely all I would give it, whether it be jigging, rigging, trolling, etc.

I’m going to look at the area being fished on my electronics and pick out the key areas and keep a watchful eye on my electronics as I fish. I’m looking for something, anything, to warrant a second pass. Did I spot a pod of good fish out a little deeper than the depth my baits were working? Did I hook up and lose a heavy fish? Did I mess up and let my boat control get away which messed up my presentation? If I answer yes to any of these questions I’ll likely give an area a second look.

A light-biter or a handful of light-biters is not a reason to stick around in my opinion. With a little experience it get pretty easy to tell the difference between the bite of a small sauger, walleye, perch, etc., versus the “take” of a larger and heavier fish.

If I’ve fished an area well, and by that I mean kept the boat at the right depth, managed my speed well and kept the baits where they need to be positioned and I don’t pull a quality fish… I’ll eliminate that area and move on to a new spot with confidence. If there’s anything I’ve learned over the years its that the big fish are ALWAYS on the feed somewhere.

85lund wrote:

As far as the stinger goes, a wise man down on the river once told me “If you have to use a stinger hook, those aren’t the fish you are looking for”. That was the last day I used a stinger hook.

This is logical and I get it. Follow up question, would it be better to use the stinger land that fish? Then you would go from thinking it was small to knowing exactly what it is.

x2 on a great thread with good info from everyone.

I read this thread when it first started (before James responded) and don’t have any recommendations. It just now occurred to me that I have not had hardly any short biters over the past few years. Then I also realized that I have not caught many walleyes under say 13″.

The big difference in the past few years has been the much more frequent use of larger plastics and rippin raps over live bait. Live bait has really become my last resort.

I 100% agree with everything James has said and have had the same result.

Nothing has been mentioned about line type. I know that at times a braid can give people fits and switching to mono or fluoro helps out. You could also try to lighten up on jig weight too so less aggressiveness on the fish’s part is needed to get the whole bait in its chops. Trolling? No ideas from this camp.

Agreed….great questions and great replies.

Try changing the way you hook your minnows.
I used to always get bit short hooking through the lips.
Try going through the mouth and out the bottom jaw and then through the stomach and out the back. This will put the minnow farther up the shank. You’ll lose a lot less minnows and hookup percentage will increase.

gixxer01 wrote:

Try changing the way you hook your minnows.
I used to always get bit short hooking through the lips.
Try going through the mouth and out the bottom jaw and then through the stomach and out the back. This will put the minnow farther up the shank. You’ll lose a lot less minnows and hookup percentage will increase.

Another good lesson here, this is something I’ve done before but not in some time and kind of forgot. Steve and Tom also raise good points about rod type/action and line types that all come into the equation and not just in the “short-hitter” situation but many others situations as well. So yea, interesting how this one thread has revealed so many things to consider when out there trying to figure out the puzzle. But for this situation and this is all you’re getting, as James says (being the TV star) and all…

“If you’re boating small fish when you do connect, I’d leave and wouldn’t give it a second thought.”

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