Confused, mad, embarrassed, intrigued

KwickStick wrote:

Sorta hard to forget and dismiss the video everyone saw…

x2

buckybadger wrote:

I do not agree with the settlement being public, but what is truly kept private in current times?

Legally, I’m not sure if the settlement amount agreed to by a public agency can be kept secret. Wouldn’t it be a matter of public record? I would be interested to know. It would seem to me that allowing a government body to make settlements for undisclosed amounts would be a system ripe for abuse.

So the trial is being televised and everything that happens during the trial can be viewed. I wish the media outlets would print/communicate the criteria that needs to be met for a guilty finding for each charge. This may help the public understand the final verdict.

Can we hand out ribbons or something here moderators? This thread being civil for 3 pages is reward worthy.

BK hardly has to look up from his plate of Spam or frosty mug of Hamms anymore to keep us in-line!

Not so sure everything has to be either or. How about both share some blame? Perhaps 2 wrongs?

“His blood was drawn immediately after death at Hennepin County Medical Center. The official autopsy report shows a concentration of 11 nanograms per milliliter.

How much is that?

“If he were found dead at home alone and no other apparent causes, this could be acceptable to call an O.D. [Over Dose], and
deaths have been certified with levels of 3, the notes indicate.”

big_g wrote:

I always thought you describe in your own words, what you seen.

Right, but she was providing information that wasn’t asked and that is what the judge took issue with. She said “have you ever witnessed someone being killed”…

Probably one of the most important parts of the trial will be the judges instructions to the jury.

The judge will interpret the law for the jury and will answer any questions in regards to the law for the jury.

These instructions will be guide how broadly or narrowly the evidence is to be considered.

They are generally delivered in private to the jury. The results of the case depend on this guidance.

It is time to sit and wait, I will be tired of the trial by the time this happens. So will the jury.

The lake in front of my house is stating to open up, by the time this is over I will have a boat in the water hopefully… fish on…

3Rivers wrote:

Not so sure everything has to be either or. How about both share some blame? Perhaps 2 wrongs?

“His blood was drawn immediately after death at Hennepin County Medical Center. The official autopsy report shows a concentration of 11 nanograms per milliliter.

How much is that?

“If he were found dead at home alone and no other apparent causes, this could be acceptable to call an O.D. [Over Dose], and
deaths have been certified with levels of 3, the notes indicate.”

They went over this one on the news last night. As a regular user of the drug 11 nanograms would not have the same effect on him as on someone who is a first time user. The medical expert said he could be less effected by 11 nanograms than someone else was with 2 nanograms. Much like any other drug use. If nothing else it lets people know how heavy of a drug user he was. What effect this has on the overall case – Who knows

fishthumper wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>3Rivers wrote:</div>
Not so sure everything has to be either or. How about both share some blame? Perhaps 2 wrongs?

“His blood was drawn immediately after death at Hennepin County Medical Center. The official autopsy report shows a concentration of 11 nanograms per milliliter.

How much is that?

“If he were found dead at home alone and no other apparent causes, this could be acceptable to call an O.D. [Over Dose], and
deaths have been certified with levels of 3, the notes indicate.”

They went over this one on the news last night. As a regular user of the drug 11 nanograms would not have the same effect on him as on someone who is a first time user. The medical expert said he could be less effected by 11 nanograms than someone else was with 2 nanograms. Much like any other drug use. If nothing else it lets people know how heavy of a drug user he was. What effect this has on the overall case – Who knows

I get that, but it also can’t be ignored. If I have alcohol in my system and someone steps out in front of me on the road, guess who’s fault it is? No matter my tolerance or how it affects me.

Chauvin was ready to plead guilty and they should have taken that agreement and moved on.

Unfortunately, the final decision will change nothing. Violence and hate will continue.

3Rivers wrote:

Chauvin was ready to plead guilty and they should have taken that agreement and moved on.
Unfortunately, the final decision will change nothing. Violence and hate will continue.

If Chauvin wanted to plead guilty he could have done so and we would not be having a trial. Either the charge he wanted to plead to was less than the prosecution wanted or he never wanted to plead guilty.
I think the final decision will have a lot to do with what happens after the trial, at least as far as the amount of Violence. To me the Trial has little to do with people hate. Once again just my opinion – Others are welcome to their own.

fishthumper wrote:

Much like any other drug use. If nothing else it lets people know how heavy of a drug user he was. What effect this has on the overall case – Who knows

The whole “he was a drug user and it was an overdose that really killed him” gambit will prove to be a mistake for the defense and they will regret going down that road would be my prediction. In the absence of the video, that angle might have had at least a chance, but I cannot see a jury buying the idea that had Chauvin never even touched Floyd, he would have just tipped over and died anyway.

Saying the drugs were a contributing factor just highlights the fact that, well, so was the knee on the back of the neck. Lose-lose for the defense.

big_g wrote:

I always thought you describe in your own words, what you seen.

Yes and no. Attorneys, both defense and prosecution, are good at asking questions in a way that make you answer them the way they want.
DT

fishthumper wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>3Rivers wrote:</div>
Chauvin was ready to plead guilty and they should have taken that agreement and moved on.
Unfortunately, the final decision will change nothing. Violence and hate will continue.

If Chauvin wanted to plead guilty he could have done so and we would not be having a trial. Either the charge he wanted to plead to was less than the prosecution wanted or he never wanted to plead guilty.
I think the final decision will have a lot to do with what happens after the trial, at least as far as the amount of Violence. To me the Trial has little to do with people hate. Once again just my opinion – Others are welcome to their own.

He did. The Feds overruled.

“As part of the deal, officials now say, he was willing to go to prison for more than 10 years. Local officials, scrambling to end the community’s swelling anger, scheduled a news conference to announce the deal.

But at the last minute, according to new details laid out by three law enforcement officials, the deal fell apart after William P. Barr, the attorney general at the time, rejected the arrangement. The deal was contingent on the federal government’s approval because Mr. Chauvin, who had asked to serve his time in a federal prison, wanted assurance he would not face federal civil rights charges.”

Instead we will watch the city burn once again.

Matt Moen wrote:

This is too close to home for us. We’re in S Mpls and this summers rioting and looting was right in our backyard. I was up north and had to come home early – sent my wife and daughter to my folks place because it was a literal war zone.
Regardless of politics and where you stand on the trial, I just hope and pray for a peaceful outcome. I don’t want to see my family, friends, neighbors, etc. deal with last summer all over again.

Ya know the worst that can happen in Avoca, is Terry & Jerry talk your ear off for an hour

fishthumper wrote:

They went over this one on the news last night. As a regular user of the drug 11 nanograms would not have the same effect on him as on someone who is a first time user. The medical expert said he could be less effected by 11 nanograms than someone else was with 2 nanograms.

I have a hard time believing anything the news tells us. I do not care what news outlet it is these days. I am no expert but am told from people that are experts on this that fentanyl is the deadliest drug out there today. Even small levels can shut your respiratory system down. This is what I found with a quick search.

“Blood concentrations of approximately 7 ng/ml or greater have been associated with fatalities where poly-substance use was involved.”

There were countless cases where 11 ng/ml has killed people. Not just a few people either. Countless deaths. I get the idea of tolerance to drugs or alcohol but refuse to base any of my thoughts on what the news has to say. I by no means want to excuse what happened here but there is truth to the drug situation if we are keeping an open mind to this situation.

buschman wrote:

I am no expert but am told from people that are experts on this that fentanyl is the deadliest drug out there today. Even small levels can shut your respiratory system down. This is what I found with a quick search.

“Blood concentrations of approximately 7 ng/ml or greater have been associated with fatalities where poly-substance use was involved.”

There were countless cases where 11 ng/ml has killed people. Not just a few people either. Countless deaths.

I can assure you that the defense will use this and much more related to it. When the time comes that will be one of their best arguments.

TheFamousGrouse wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>fishthumper wrote:</div>
Much like any other drug use. If nothing else it lets people know how heavy of a drug user he was. What effect this has on the overall case – Who knows

The whole “he was a drug user and it was an overdose that really killed him” gambit will prove to be a mistake for the defense and they will regret going down that road would be my prediction. In the absence of the video, that angle might have had at least a chance, but I cannot see a jury buying the idea that had Chauvin never even touched Floyd, he would have just tipped over and died anyway.

Saying the drugs were a contributing factor just highlights the fact that, well, so was the knee on the back of the neck. Lose-lose for the defense.

The argument I heard wasn’t that it was only the drugs that killed him, but that the combination of the drugs and excitement of the encounter. I believe they call it excited/hyperactive delirium. The evidence for this being the videos of him saying “I can’t breathe” when they first opened his car door. Not saying it happened one way or the other, but laying the argument.

Jon Jordan wrote:

Seems there is no presumption of innocence in this case.

The leaked NY Times story and the MPLS city counsel news release of the civil settlement are both valid reasons for appeal if needed. The trial should have been moved and delayed. This story will be around for years to come.

Also, if Chauvin is not convicted of the second degree murder charge, the charges against the other officers would need to be dropped. There is no such crime on the books for aiding and abetting a 3rd degree murder or man slaughter.

I’m guessing a hung jury and re-trial. We’ll see….

-J.

I think it’s important to remember that the Attorney General’s office is prosecuting this case (AG Keith Ellison), and his son Jerimiah Ellison is on the Mpls City Council.

Here is some information that would be interesting to know:

How many times have law enforcement officers (across the country) used the “knee to the neck” restraining technique and the person being restrained did not die? Or, in what percent of the cases when that restraining technique was used did the restrained person die?

How many times have people died (or survived) after ingesting enough fentanyl to test 11 ng/ml? Or, in what percent of the cases when a person has ingested enough fentanyl to test 11 ng/ml have they survived? (I know this would be very difficult to determine as has been stated above.)

Maybe this info is available, I don’t know.

Buffalo Fishhead

I’ve seen the knee to the neck on Live PD and no-one died. I loved that show. It showed how dumb a lot of people in this country are. The George Floyd death caused this show to be taken off the air.

FishBlood&RiverMud wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Matt Moen wrote:</div>
This is too close to home for us. We’re in S Mpls and this summers rioting and looting was right in our backyard. I was up north and had to come home early – sent my wife and daughter to my folks place because it was a literal war zone.
Regardless of politics and where you stand on the trial, I just hope and pray for a peaceful outcome. I don’t want to see my family, friends, neighbors, etc. deal with last summer all over again.

Ya know the worst that can happen in Avoca, is Terry & Jerry talk your ear off for an hour

I’ll meet you down at the Avoca dam and we can catch a bucket of bullheads. Then we can grab a beer at the Avoca bar….I think they retired my grandfathers stool there. Be a helluva way to pass the time!

All it takes is one jury with doubt to upset the trial. A new ball game will start again. More and more problems.

gimruis wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>buschman wrote:</div>
I am no expert but am told from people that are experts on this that fentanyl is the deadliest drug out there today. Even small levels can shut your respiratory system down. This is what I found with a quick search.

“Blood concentrations of approximately 7 ng/ml or greater have been associated with fatalities where poly-substance use was involved.”

There were countless cases where 11 ng/ml has killed people. Not just a few people either. Countless deaths.

I can assure you that the defense will use this and much more related to it. When the time comes that will be one of their best arguments.

It’s an extremely valid point. Just googling the side effects of a Fentanyl overdose states difficulty breathing. If you go back and watch the video on how it all went down, George was stating that he couldn’t breathe before anyone kneeled on him. He was trying to fight back so the officer had to control him. Many will disagree with my observations or bring up other topics. But the facts are still there…

80 responses until you bring your BS to the table. Congratulations.

Regarding the comment Regarding Floyd complaining about not being able to breathe the judge ruled to allow body cam footage from a 2019 arrest in which he was saying he couldn’t breathe, was claustrophobic and was calling out for his mom. It all started as soon as the cop approached his window.

A nine year old girl who was with her cousin and witnessed
it was called to testify. I wondered why they’d do that and learned that if found guilty the judge can add more time to the sentence because its illegal to commit a violent crime in the presence of a juvenile.

It’s my understanding the knee was something that was taught and used by the police force,I also thought the EMT’s were called when he started to complain he couldn’t breath, Floyd was a large man, maybe even intimidating.if the crowd gathering that really had no business gathering there hadn’t distracted the officers trying to do their job and it may had a different outcome.Floyd died while in custody of the police,but if they followed the training and procedure set forth by the police dept. then that kina makes the murder charges mute wouldn’t it? what says IDO?

Beast wrote:

It’s my understanding the knee was something that was taught and used by the police force,I also thought the EMT’s were called when he started to complain he couldn’t breath, Floyd was a large man, maybe even intimidating.if the crowd gathering that really had no business gathering there hadn’t distracted the officers trying to do their job and it may had a different outcome.Floyd died while in custody of the police, if they followed the training and procedure set forth by the police dept. then that kina makes the murder charges mute wouldn’t it? what says IDO?

People had no business gathering on a public sidewalk? Saying this distracted the cops is a stretch. This was far from an unruly mob and Chauvin looked far from distracted.
Just my opinion.

When and if Chauvin takes the stand will be an interesting day of trial. They haven’t really said whether he is going to testify yet.

I never said they were a mob, but it would be hard for me if I was trying to control a suspect if I had to keep a eye on the crowd wondering if there was a nutcase with a anti cop mentality maybe even with a weapon in it.It’s a job I wouldn’t want. I don’t know of anyone that goes around telling people how to do a job that they have no training in.

Dutchboy wrote:

I don’t know what emotion I should have. The Chauvin trial starts and the amount of coverage this is getting is crazy. Even the TV station from Duluth has a guy down there. All the national outlets are covering it.

I wonder if it’s the trial that they are covering or the aftermath they want to be here for? I have to think if this was happening in Kansas City or Omaha it barely would be a story.

They are predicting the trial to take a month, I have to wonder if the protests, riots, looting start before then. My heart goes out to the homeowners and business owners this is going to effect.

I actually live in Omaha and I literally just saw a man kneel on another man’s neck until he quit breathing and died on the way to work this morning. Saw it 3 times this weekend and didn’t even bother to report it; after all, it does happen here all the time and is not even newsworthy.