Closed to the public?

  • belletaine
    Nevis, MN
    Posts: 5116
    #1576103

    Meetings between the MN DNR and tribal members to discuss harvest regulations are closed to the public. Seems a little odd in this day and age.
    This article is from a Brainard newspaper.

    Under pressure from an angry public to increase transparency following the early closure of the summer walleye fishing season in August, the DNR created the Mille Lacs Fisheries Advisory Committee, made up of private citizens – resort operators, anglers, tourism board members. It decided to send people from the advisory committee to the technical committee meetings, to draw back the curtain on how the limits for Mille Lacs were set. BrainerdDispatch.com Illustration

    Public shut out from Mille Lacs fisheries meetings

    By Zach Kayser on Nov 6, 2015 at 8:54

    Supporting walleye fishing on Lake Mille Lacs involves countless work hours and dollars spent, both private and public.

    However, the government quota-setting process for the lake involves meetings that are closed to that same public. A recent attempt by the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources to make the process more open to Minnesotans was met with denial by the American Indian groups that control fishing on the lake along with the

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    The DNR collaborates with tribal bands that gill net on the lake, the consequence of a 1990s U.S. Supreme Court decision affirming tribal rights to fish and hunt off-reservation in lands the Ojibwe ceded to the U.S. government in the 1800s. This 16-member coalition of DNR and tribal fisheries experts decide allowable harvest levels for the lake. The coalition is called the 1837 Ceded Territory Fisheries Committee, or the technical committee. The quotas set by the committee form the basis of the DNR’s harvest slot limits for Mille Lacs – which length fish are allowed to be taken by anglers, and which aren’t.

    Under pressure from an angry public to increase transparency following the early closure of the summer walleye fishing season in August, the DNR created the Mille Lacs Fisheries Advisory Committee, made up of private citizens – resort operators, anglers, tourism board members. It decided to send people from the advisory committee to the technical committee meetings, to draw back the curtain on how the limits for Mille Lacs were set.

    “The DNR will increase the transparency of the quota-setting process by inviting two advisory committee members to attend and observe fisheries technical committee meetings,” the DNR’s website on Mille Lacs said as of Wednesday.

    However, the bands nixed the DNR’s request to have advisory committee members present at the technical committee meeting Oct. 15, during which the committee determined how much walleye harvest to allow during the ice fishing season.

    DNR Fisheries chief Don Pereira said the bands didn’t want to have the two advisory committee members there because the bands felt their presence wouldn’t be in line with the legal framework that initially set up the technical committee.

    “Their interpretation of the protocol is that, that meeting is supposed to be either for technical people, or for official agents of either government,” Pereira said.

    Some advisory committee members were upset that their committee wasn’t allowed to go.

    “Some of them were concerned,” Pereira said. “I don’t think it’s a universal concern, but some of them were. It’s a basic trust issue there that I don’t think is justified, because there isn’t’ anything deceitful being done at all. We’re being pretty transparent about everything.”

    When the DNR initially brought the idea to the tribes, they said it would help assuage public suspicion.

    “We just said it would alleviate these unnecessary concerns by some members of our public, if they were able to sit and observe the process that we go through in the tech committee meetings,” Pereira said.

    While the DNR withdrew its request to have advisory committee members at the Oct 15 meeting, Pereira said, the DNR is still in talks on the issue with the tribes.

    In response to a data request under the Minnesota Government Data Practices Act, the DNR provided a list of regular technical committee members as well as the draft agenda and meeting packet for the Oct. 15 meeting.

    However, a data practices officer for the DNR said the meeting was not voice recorded and that no meeting minutes were available.

    The technical committee is made up of seven members from the state and nine from American Indian tribes. Five of the latter represent the Great Lakes Indian Fish and Wildlife Commission.

    A spokesperson for the commission denied an interview request for GLIFWC and technical committee member Neil Kmiecik.

    “The closed meeting provision is tied to a court case,” the spokesperson said. “It is not open to the public, and that’s just the way it is. The tribes have no interest in changing it.”

    In an emailed statement, Susan Klapel, commissioner of natural resources for the Mille Lacs Band, said meetings of the technical committee – of which she is a regular member – should stay the way it is.

    “The Fisheries Technical Committee is designed to facilitate co-management and allow for representatives of tribal nations and the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources to arrive at harvest regulations for Mille Lacs Lake that are based on sound science,” Klapel said. “The current configuration of this committee allows for the free exchange of information between state and tribal biologists. We are not in favor of any changes that would inhibit the ability of the participants to focus on the biological factors impacting the lake.”

    The meetings are not entirely closed off to outsiders, however. The framework for the technical committee as set forth by the court is labeled “Protocol #1”. There are two sentences at the end of the protocol under the heading “Public Information” that dictate the matter of open access to the public:

    “The parties shall cooperate in making meeting reports and all analyses and technical data developed by or for the committee available to the public. As a professional courtesy, committee members shall notify each other before issuing press releases or other statements to the media.”

    In addition, each party can invite government representatives outside the committee to attend as observers, Pereira said. For example, the DNR has a “standard practice” of inviting Minnesota legislators to the meetings, he said. However, it appears it’s up to the legislators themselves whether or not they follow through with the invitation.

    “They don’t always show up,” Pereira said.

    Although he isn’t on the committee itself, Rep. Tom Hackbarth, R-Cedar, came to the Oct. 15 meeting, as well as a staffer for Sen. David Tomassoni, DFL-Chisholm, Hackbarth said. Hackbarth and Tomassoni co-chaired the legislative working group on the Mille Lacs crisis, which ultimately broke down amid political bickering between it and the Dayton administration.

    Hackbarth said he had been to “many” meetings of the much-older technical committee, but could not recall any members of the public ever attending.

    “But, that’s not the way it was set up,” he said of allowing the public in. “It’s been like that since the inception of the whole thing.”

    In Hackbarth’s opinion, there should be more public interest in the technical committee’s operations, and more access to the public, so Mille Lacs business owners, residents and other stakeholders can attend.

    “Maybe they should have set it up different so those people could have been allowed to come,” he said.

    ZACH KAYSER may be reached at 218-855-5860 [email protected]. Follow

    BigWerm
    SW Metro
    Posts: 11646
    #1576126

    the bands nixed the DNR’s request to have advisory committee members present at the technical committee meeting Oct. 15

    The tribe speaks and the DNR and our Politicians listen. Also, these meetings determine the quota amounts, how is that possible without recordings or notes? The parties involve just remember what was discussed and implements it? Or more likely the DNR just remembers what the Tribe tells them, and does it. This whole process STINKS!

    Bob Carlson
    Mille Lacs Lake (eastside), Mn.
    Posts: 2936
    #1577238

    and people wonder why we are in such a mess?

    this meeting process is so unbelievable…..

    Dutchboy
    Central Mn.
    Posts: 16658
    #1577244

    Bob, it’s not a meeting, it’s a negotiation. GLIFWC states the way it will be, the DNR says thank you for being so generous. End of negotiations.

    While that may seem simplistic is there any other legit reason to exclude the public? I understand not having a open forum where people can state their opinions and views. Nothing would get done. But there isn’t any legit reason that the public shouldn’t have access to talks involving public waters and how they are used and mis-managed.( Sorry, I meant managed. )

    TRANSPARENCY……….is it really to much to expect?

    lancew
    Posts: 65
    #1577287

    the tribe has no reason to offer transparency, and the DNR doesn’t control this negotiation. Not sure why so called “advisory board members” would think they should have access to the negotiation between the State of MN and a sovereign tribal nation. its like people don’t understand the situation on any level at all. Get real.

    big_g
    Isle, MN
    Posts: 22456
    #1583549

    Hackbarth said he had been to “many” meetings of the much-older technical committee, but could not recall any members of the public ever attending.

    “But, that’s not the way it was set up,” he said of allowing the public in. “It’s been like that since the inception of the whole thing.”

    Sooooooo… maybe the way it was “set-up” is obviously “not working”…? Maybe “changing the process” would “change the outcome”…? What a joke…

    icenutz
    Aniwa, WI
    Posts: 2540
    #1583557

    Like mushrooms, keep us in the dark and feed us full of #$#$##

    belletaine
    Nevis, MN
    Posts: 5116
    #1583563

    Hackbarth said he had been to “many” meetings of the much-older technical committee, but could not recall any members of the public ever attending.

    “But, that’s not the way it was set up,” he said of allowing the public in. “It’s been like that since the inception of the whole thing.”

    Sooooooo… maybe the way it was “set-up” is obviously “not working”…? Maybe “changing the process” would “change the outcome”…? What a joke…

    It is a joke. Doing something for the sake of doing something.

    Jesse Krook
    Y.M.H.
    Posts: 6403
    #1583632

    So…..who here has actually done something other than complain about it on the internet????

    Jon Jordan
    Keymaster
    St. Paul, Mn
    Posts: 6019
    #1583670

    So…..who here has actually done something other than complain about it on the internet????

    I have sent countless emails and voice mails to Don Pereira and Governor Dayton on this issue. Neither men or officials in their office will reply. Mention tribal netting, and your message gets deleted. Its a complete joke. I suspect if I showed up to either office in person, I’d be tossed out or arrested. chased

    Call any of the media outlets in the twin cities wcco, kstp or kare and ask them to investigate? They basically imply you are a racist! Not interested.

    Remember, the DNR has stated over and over netting is not a problem for Mille Lacs. Until they put the issue up for discussion and serious review nothing will change. They continue to insist other factors are the cause. Factors such as climate change, over population of bass and northern, zebra mussels and so on.

    My personal option is the DNR and State government are covering up past mistakes to avoid getting sued and or fired. Its government corruption at its finest.

    -J.

    belletaine
    Nevis, MN
    Posts: 5116
    #1583672

    So…..who here has actually done something other than complain about it on the internet????

    Not me. I don’t fish Mille Lacs and don’t have an attachment to it. I’m upset with state appointed committee’s and boards that are assembled as window dressing.
    I would like to be able to somehow contribute to the future success of the small business owners around the lake but to be honest I’m not sure how.

    Mocha
    Park Rapids
    Posts: 1452
    #1583674

    So…..who here has actually done something other than complain about it on the internet????

    I have also sent numerous emails to my state representatives with no response.

    What have you done Jesse???

    This is nothing but an on going example of special rights for special people!

    brad-o
    Mankato
    Posts: 410
    #1583702

    The best person to email is state rep Tony Cornish. He is a former CO and has helped my family out with gov issue even though we are not in his district. I hope he runs for governor some day!

    Jesse Krook
    Y.M.H.
    Posts: 6403
    #1583900

    What have you done Jesse???

    Simple answer.

    I don’t complain about it on the internet.

    I wasn’t attacking you or anyone else. I just want to know if people actually do something about it or just whine on the internet.

    My hat’s off to the fellar’s that actually write the politicians. Keep banging on their doors. They can’t run and hide from this for ever.

    Who other than me believes the meeting was behind closed doors because State officials were only discussing the amount of $$$$$$ they are getting from the tribes?

    TheFamousGrouse
    St. Paul, MN
    Posts: 11646
    #1583909

    Remember, the DNR has stated over and over netting is not a problem for Mille Lacs. Until they put the issue up for discussion and serious review nothing will change. They continue to insist other factors are the cause. Factors such as climate change, over population of bass and northern, zebra mussels and so on.

    What, exactly, do you think would be accomplished with this “serious review” of netting?

    What are you thinking MN politicians can do about netting?

    Are you still under the illusion that the DNR can just order the Indians to stop netting and then that’s that? No more netting.

    I’m thinking that the Indians would be in Federal Court and the Feds would be slapping down any such attempt in naught point five seconds. Probably accompanied by an order for the state’s taxpayers to pay lawyers fees and damages to the Indians for violating a previous Federal ruling.

    Grouse

    Dutchboy
    Central Mn.
    Posts: 16658
    #1583981

    The DNR is tasked with managing the lake. If they felt (admitted) netting was detrimental to the Walleye population they have the authority to ban netting during the spawn. Not ban netting period, but only during the spawn.

    So, now they either believe netting during the spawn doesn’t harm the fishery or there is political or monetary pressure to look for other solutions.

    If there is no political or monetary reasons then why ban people from witnessing the proceedings? Transparency is what the sportsman of Mille Lacs expect and deserve.

    Jesse I’ve contributed hundereds over the years and will continue to to do so. I, unlike others don’t believe talking or sending e-mails work. You get a auto response from some staffer. I seriously doubt these people in St. Paul see the majority of constituents correspondence unless it has a check enclosed.

    Iowaboy1
    Posts: 3791
    #1584020

    really its quite simple,follow the money!!! obamha and his lets destroy America agenda is giving back the spoils of war to those who simply lost.
    the treatys should of ended the first time a blue eyed blonde applied for treaty entitlements period.

    dont get me wrong,I am not racist,far from it,in fact,I am part cherokee,that said,I earn my own way by WORKING EVERY DAY OF THE WEEK!!! if I can overcome,so can every one else!!!
    have never taken a hand out,never will.

    cant wait for common sense to take over again,hopefully,that ideal is not lost.

    steve-fellegy
    Resides on the North Shores of Mille Lacs--guiding on Farm Island these days
    Posts: 1294
    #1584026

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Jon Jordan wrote:</div>
    Remember, the DNR has stated over and over netting is not a problem for Mille Lacs. Until they put the issue up for discussion and serious review nothing will change. They continue to insist other factors are the cause. Factors such as climate change, over population of bass and northern, zebra mussels and so on.

    What, exactly, do you think would be accomplished with this “serious review” of netting?

    What are you thinking MN politicians can do about netting?

    Are you still under the illusion that the DNR can just order the Indians to stop netting and then that’s that? No more netting.

    I’m thinking that the Indians would be in Federal Court and the Feds would be slapping down any such attempt in naught point five seconds. Probably accompanied by an order for the state’s taxpayers to pay lawyers fees and damages to the Indians for violating a previous Federal ruling.

    Grouse

    The court rulings say the Tribal rights can be exercised “above” state regs ONLY if they are done so within “acceptable” levels of conservation/public safety and public health. So, in fact, the DNR does have some court granted options here and could rightfully utilize those options–no doubt.

    Yes, there would/will be legal costs to change things. The AG says “around $10 million”. What’s cheaper….that figure or the cost to repair the lake and the economy? ( recall the FIRST figure to fix things long before one walleye was stocked or ?? was $20 million–you do the math)

    Now I will stay out of this….period.

    ptc
    Apple Valley/Isle, MN
    Posts: 614
    #1584390

    really its quite simple,follow the money!!! obamha and his lets destroy America agenda is giving back the spoils of war to those who simply lost.
    the treatys should of ended the first time a blue eyed blonde applied for treaty entitlements period.

    Do you really believe that? Maybe you are wishing for the good old days when George Bush and Tim Pawlenty stepped up and put an end to the netting…

    big_g
    Isle, MN
    Posts: 22456
    #1584490

    I don’t believe they were talking about $$$$$ from tribes to the DNR, they are smarter than that… but I do believe open meetings would expose how there is no “science” or “fact based info” in the quota’s, but rather a game of “Let’s make a deal” type negotiations instead. I also write politicians, but moreover, I buy raffle tickets to any group that is working to overturn the court decision. I also supported Steve F in his plight, with cold hard ca$h when he tired his route. I also complain on the internet… because dead silence gets you where ?

    lancew
    Posts: 65
    #1584684

    it seems there is a complete lack of understanding about the process specifically here, and the way the laws of our country work generally. There is a contract in place(the 1837 treaty), along with Consitituional law that mandates that the US govt “protect” the tribes(The United States is trustee or guardian for the tribes. This role traces to the Supreme Court’s opinion in Cherokee Nation v. Georgia, in which Chief Justice John Marshall wrote that the relationship of the tribes to the United States resembles that of a “ward to its guardian.” ).
    The ranting about Obama, and cash and bla bla bla only emphasizes to any elected official following these issues, that the “white americans” that are so passionate and loud are uneducated and not capable of meaningful discussion that might result in change. People will listen, if you have a solution based on legal realities.

    big_g
    Isle, MN
    Posts: 22456
    #1584791

    simply, it’s about the court order that the resource is managed, so as to not deplete the resource… that is what is not happening. I understand a people being “dependent” on others to take care of them… not only dependent, but actually “wards” of a government. Now we need to remember, this was all laid out when treaties were enforced swiftly, of which today, parts are totally ignored in these modern times and others are over stepped, depending on who it “favors”. smirk

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