Climate Change

Either way,one massive volcanic eruption or an asteroid strike will be a game changer.If the Yellowstone volcano erupts,it could be curtains.It’s a matter of time.

WinnebagoViking wrote:

As usual with this topic, the stupidity mascarading as some kind of brilliant insight is amusing. #dunningkruger

So WinnebagoViking, I’m compelled to ask, have you ever experienced Imposter Syndrome?

For every thing man does on earth, there will be some form of reaction. Farmers plant crops, and wildlife thrives because there is a “greater” food source. We pollute the ground, and our water sources get contaminated. We pack millions people in a tiny cities, you get concentrations of pollution and stupidity. No doubt we are having some effect on earth, but I will never believe that it is at the magnitude of what politicians are handing out in the koolaid. Earth has been evolving and we are just a spec on the timeline. No true science is going to be 100% of what our actions are contributing to the cause or rate of the changes.
What we can do is protect the mini-environments we live in. Better practices of land fills, water sheds and run off, the chemicals we use, and so on. Instead of focusing on something we can’t control, put effort into what we can do.
I relate it to the Acid Rain scare of the 70’s. Here in WI. the DNR jumped in on that and how the acidic levels of our lakes and rivers was on the rise. I’m not a scientist, but can clearly see all the crap that runs off the fields, roads, waste plants and enters our water sources. Is there pollution in the air that is washed down with rain? I’m sure there is some. But when you see a salt truck stopped and it pours out 100’s of pound of salt, when is that going to end up? Does it just magically disappear? I pick salt, because its something we all can see. I think itys time for people to focus on cleaning up their own backyard.

“Over the past century, the earths average temp has risen 1 degree” is the most telling evidence national geographic had to offer in the article I just read.

Over the span of the millions of years that this earth and sun have endured, do scientists think the weather has been exactly constant the entire time? I dont know much about the subject (clearly), but good grief, who says theres no variation? Let me guess- our great, great, great grandkids will be concerned about global cooling in the next few centuries.

These people concerned about climate change and greenhouse gas emissions are the same damn people that think 6.5′ truck beds are any more valuable than 5.5′ truck beds

tbro16 wrote:

same damn people that think 6.5′ truck beds are any more valuable than 5.5′ truck beds

I take it you have a short one!

To come full circle on two items, that of Mr.Jon Jordan and human timeline. Agreed, very short. We need data from tens, even 100 of thousands of years to get an idea of where we are going.

And Mr.Weiland, every in nature has a cause and effect. Gases in atmosphere have effect and it’s science

https://cdiac.ess-dive.lbl.gov/trends/co2/ice_core_co2.html

Enjoy the reading, I know I didn’t.
Makes it all to real.

Thank you Tangler!!!!

Gitchi Gummi wrote:

It amazes me how many people don’t know the difference between climate and weather.

Weather is what I feel when I open the door. Climate is what you do to a mountain.

Jon Jordan wrote:

The planet is approx 3.5 to 4 billion yrs old.

65 million years ago the upper midwest was a tropical forest inhabited by dinosaurs.

10 million years ago there was a 5,000 foot thick sheet of ice covering Minnesota. (Yes a mile thick) Last ice age.

Humans first appear appox 3 million yrs ago.

Civilized life 2,000 to 4,000 years. (Up for argument)

Accurate Weather records in the US. Less than 400 years.

Humans have no frigg’n clue what climate change is. Or better said have no control to change it.

Think of it this way. If you tracked weather from the beginning of earth till now. And laid a tape measure from St Paul to Los Angeles. The time humans have actually tracked weather would measure less than an inch.

Earth history would indicate it will get warm in the future and also very cold. How humans adapt is the only question. Anyone who want to argue is bad a math.

Edit – Personal opinion. The biggest problem for humans is not climate. It is population. Too many people for this little ball floating around in space to support. Eventually, mother nature will take care of that problem. Mother nature seems to always win. But I have only been watching things for a mere 50 years. Math would indicate I am also clueless….

-J.

Ahhhh Jon. Finally someone was able to put it into words! Thank you.

Don’t forget some of the mountains are still growing every year. Every year the air is forced a little higher as system pass over them. OR others have eroded more and that air isn’t pushed as high. Has anyone take this into account?

Google “Grand Solar Minimum” if you really want to panic.

FYI, the King coal power plant loves us all.

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All I know is that for each and every one of us, time is finite. My advice…..live well and don’t spend all your time worrying about things we cannot change [at least fast enough in a positive way to be noticed by us].

The more we think we know , the more im convinced we don,t .

Yeah, the earth has been around for a long time, but there is no way you can compare post-industrial revolution earth with 7+Billion people to sparsely populated earth with little to no ‘industry’.

Randy Wieland wrote:

No doubt we are having some effect on earth, but I will never believe that it is at the magnitude of what politicians are handing out in the koolaid. Earth has been evolving and we are just a spec on the timeline. No true science is going to be 100% of what our actions are contributing to the cause or rate of the changes.

That’s the thing though, one side of the political spectrum is handing out koolaid, the other side is handing out research. One side is trying to use science to make a factual and informed argument, the other side is stuffing their pockets with lobbyist money from the fossil fuel industry and sticking their fingers in their ears saying, “la la la I can’t hear you, it’s snowing a lot this year therefore climate change isn’t real”.

The oil and gas industry ‘donated’ $41 million to Republicans last year(who we’ve seen in the past two years has rolled back environmental protection laws and generally ‘disagree’ with climate change reports).

That industry donated $6 million to Democrats.

94% of coal mining contributions have gone to republicans.
91% of all mining contributions have gone to republicans.

If only I could make some link to why the Republican politicians seem to oppose environmental protection legislation/climate change regulations/etc. It could definitely be that they are more informed than the worldwide panel of climatologists that worked on the latest climate change study, there might be a better explanation though…if only I could put my finger on it…

https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/totals.php?ind=E01++

On a side note, that website is really fun to poke around on. You can get a pretty good idea which industries are supporting which side of the political spectrum and how much money is flowing in. Some are really telling, others are just interesting.

For instance, I would have expected Alternative Energy Production and Services to lean much further left, as kind of a pessimistic view on why Democrats are pushing for more renewable energy and stuff. But last year it was almost a 50/50 split, while historically it does lean more left.

wkw wrote:

Where the hell is Al Gore when we need him ?…LOL

He’s busy looking for manbearpig.

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See I told you guys, it’s not science at all that is making it snow again this weekend. It’s politics and money

I have to agree with Phil on some of this. Like I said I’m in the middle (which we need more of to get out of this political gridlock all the time)

I don’t believe we have enough evidence to say for sure what is going on. However, to dismiss all scientific research as BS, certainly seems negligent.

We should be focusing to change what we can. Prime example, our local company, Xcel Energy recently announced plans to go completely carbon-free. One of the first major US Utility companies to make such plans, and shortly thereafter a few other companies announced the same. They wouldn’t do it if they could not remain profitable. So if the technology is there, why would we not pursue it? We need more of this.

Once again, look back at history. During some of the most atmospheric polluted periods of time have coincided with global cooling. Seems to me the more clear the skys are, the warmer the planet gets. Seems to me if we had an extended period of volcanic activity for example, temps would begin dropping.

Does anyone remember back in the early 70’s when we were being told the next ice age had already started. This was during a time when every car and truck going down the road was spewing a clouds of exhaust? Funny, eh?

-J.

Doesn’t matter.

How could an utility company producing cleaner energy be a bad thing? Doesn’t change your lifestyle one bit and it’s a start.

And by the way, I agree with your previous post. But it doesn’t mean we can’t or shouldn’t start reducing our pollution where we can.

lindyrig79 wrote:

They wouldn’t do it if they could not remain profitable.

Sure, they will remain profitable by raising the price you pay for their service.

Not to mention, carbon free does not keep everyone happy. Less carbon = More splitting atoms.

-J.

Read up on their plan. Wind and solar. Cheaper than coal.

lindyrig79 wrote:

Read up on their plan. Wind and solar. Cheaper than coal.

A lot of really cool advancements being made in solar the last few years, I’m with you. Why wouldn’t we want to pollute less and protect our environment? This idea of not being able to get data from millions of years ago just doesn’t make sense to me. Again, humans probably have had a bigger environmental impact in the year 2018 alone than they did from the beginning of our existence to the year 1800. Which is either millions of years or 7000 years depending on your beliefs on how long we/the earth has been around. It’s a total deflection IMO.

It’s a really interesting topic because I’d say generally outdoorsmen probably lean further right on the political spectrum as a result of things like gun control and maybe the completely preposterous stance that right wing politicians hold more ‘Christian’ beliefs.

But you’d think outdoorsmen would be a lot more supportive of environmental protection regulations, which it’s clear is not on the Right wings agenda.

I find it surprising that outdoorsmen in general would be opposed to believing/acting on climate change studies as at worst it could have a catastrophic impact to later generation’s ability to enjoy the outdoors. If by some chance climate change is a hoax and all we do is just make the earth cleaner and society more sustainable, I guess that’s somewhat of a win:win scenario?

#Thanosdidnothingwrong

For me the thing that says something is the Pentagon is factoring climate change in its risk assessments and contingency planning. I can’t imagine our military decided it was going to follow the lead of Al Gore for the last 15 years.

Forget climate for one single moment.

Does anyone realize how big of an effect burning of fossil fuels has directly on our health?

That alone should propmt us to change our ways. But no, we live in a horribly corrupt world where common sense and facts are overruled by the mighty $. and now climate change has been twisted into this political pawn to promote various types of energy from each end of the spectrum.

biggill wrote:

Forget climate for one single moment.

Does anyone realize how big of an effect burning of fossil fuels has directly on our health?

That alone should propmt us to change our ways. But no, we live in a horribly corrupt world where common sense and facts are overruled by the mighty $. and now climate change has been twisted into this political pawn to promote various types of energy from each end of the spectrum.

I can’t say that I disagree with you. But when you ask people if they want cleaner air, lakes and rivers, the answer is overwhelmingly, “sure”. When you put a cost on that, things become considerably more mixed. All you have to do is look at the riots in France to see this.

DaveB wrote:

I can’t say that I disagree with you. But when you ask people if they want cleaner air, lakes and rivers, the answer is overwhelmingly, “sure”. When you put a cost on that, things become considerably more mixed. All you have to do is look at the riots in France to see this.

Understood, but the problem is that we have been a prisoner of the same energy sources for over a century. Suppression of alternative energy has been happening long enough.

We need to move on to the next corrupt energy source.

biggill wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>DaveB wrote:</div>
I can’t say that I disagree with you. But when you ask people if they want cleaner air, lakes and rivers, the answer is overwhelmingly, “sure”. When you put a cost on that, things become considerably more mixed. All you have to do is look at the riots in France to see this.

Understood, but the problem is that we have been a prisoner of the same energy sources for over a century. Suppression of alternative energy has been happening long enough.

We need to move on to the next corrupt energy source.

Looking at the Tesla incentives, I think we are there

DaveB wrote:

Looking at the Tesla incentives, I think we are there

That number is comical compared to tax breaks for oil and gas companies.

Two things:
1. The worst possible name ever given to this issue is “Global Warming” as every time it is cold out, people say “what about global warming”. Now every time you say Climate change, people say “what about global warming?

2. for anyone to deny we are not experiencing some type of climate change, you are simply choosing not to see it happening. Yes, the earth will go through her changes and eventually an ice age will happen again…. but the process is accelerated by man. Science proves this is true!
so, if you don’t want to leave this earth in good shape for the next generation or next after that (and so on), just keep denying it and deny actual science!