Chin hooked walleye, legal to keep?

  • Walleyestudent Andy Cox
    Garrison MN-Mille Lacs
    Posts: 4484
    #1767601

    Interesting discussion here. Regardless of ethics, the law should be cut and dry and not up to personal opinion.

    That it is, as clearly as communicated in the Wisconsin regulation booklet.

    It is illegal;
    • to fish by snagging, foul-hooking, or attempting to hook fish other than in the mouth.
    • to keep foul-hooked, snagged or any fish not hooked in the mouth.

    Not so much in the Minnesota rules and regulations booklet?

    No wonder the Badgers always defeat the Gophers… jester

    Walleyestudent Andy Cox
    Garrison MN-Mille Lacs
    Posts: 4484
    #1767605

    Yes, Big_g’s point is exactly correct.
    How hard can it possibly be to write clarifying language on this issue?

    Obviously not too hard for our “sconnie” neighbors. They’ve mastered that. Head shaking sometimes. Something so clear/concise and MN DNR mumbles it just like Guv Dayton speaks. Did you get that? Huh?

    Chin hooked walleye? Does a walleye have a chin? Some have asked? Does a walleye have a nose? What to do with a nose hooked walleye?

    Oh…my, oh?

    Attachments:
    1. echo_walleye.jpg

    James Holst
    Keymaster
    SE Minnesota
    Posts: 18926
    #1767615

    Pretty much guarantee we won’t see any IDO TV episodes with James and Co. keeping chin hooked walleye! wink

    That comment was assuming that James will be reading this thread. smile

    I read most threads posted here.

    ajw
    Posts: 519
    #1767946

    not being able to keep a chin hooked fish or basically hooked anywhere forward of the gills is bananas to me. fish swipe/swing and miss all the time. dumb law

    Jeff Telander
    Posts: 125
    #1767948

    Good point Andy, bringing up the WI regs. They make a note of “foul hooked” fish. Which I think is being misinterpreted here as “snagged”. there is a difference as one is intentionally hooking a fish outside the mouth and the other is unintentional.

    Harvester
    Posts: 23
    #1767949

    Yep, luckily only outlawed statewide in WI. Most of MN makes sense on that… I suppose the other MN restricted waters are where they border WI and so have to play nice…

    biggill
    East Bethel, MN
    Posts: 11321
    #1767954

    http://www.duluthnewstribune.com/sports/outdoors/4431557-ask-conservation-officer-when-can-you-keep-foul-hooked-fish

    Thanks for posting that. This falls in line with how the law is written.

    This clarifies the intention part of it too.

    Q: While fishing on the St. Louis River near Duluth, I was trolling with a spinner rig and landed a walleye that was hooked in the chin behind the mouth. Can I keep it?

    A: No. Minnesota’s statewide regulation for foul-hooked fish states that a person may not intentionally take fish by snagging, or use a snag line, snag hook or cluster of hooks designed to foul-hook fish.

    On most inland lakes, as long as a fish that was hooked elsewhere in the body was done so accidentally, it is legal to keep. However, on Lake Superior tributaries and Wisconsin-Minnesota border waters (St. Louis, St. Croix and Mississippi rivers), there is a specific regulation stating that a fish hooked anywhere in the body except the mouth must be immediately returned to the water.

    Some anglers may strongly argue that it is not moral or right to keep such a foul-hooked fish under any circumstances. In a CO’s world, this is where we get the phrase, “What seems right isn’t always legal, and what is legal doesn’t always seem right.”

    Make sure to check out the Border Waters pages for special regulations in the 2018 Minnesota Fishing Regulation synopsis.

    Matthew S. Miller is a Minnesota Department of Natural Resources conservation officer with the Lake Superior Marine Unit. Send your questions to [email protected].

    Walleyestudent Andy Cox
    Garrison MN-Mille Lacs
    Posts: 4484
    #1767956

    http://www.duluthnewstribune.com/sports/outdoors/4431557-ask-conservation-officer-when-can-you-keep-foul-hooked-fish

    Kind of timely that this article was in todays Duluth News Tribune while we all engage in this debate. So again there is information that contradicts with some of what was posted here.

    Again, it looks like Wisconsin rules are specific to “not legal” to keep and Minnesota by NOT saying “not legal” to keep, then is saying legal to keep in inland waters. Make sense now? ???

    I have pasted a quote from the article as spoken from the MN CO.

    On most inland lakes, as long as a fish that was hooked elsewhere in the body was done so accidentally, it is legal to keep. However, on Lake Superior tributaries and Wisconsin-Minnesota border waters (St. Louis, St. Croix and Mississippi rivers), there is a specific regulation stating that a fish hooked anywhere in the body except the mouth must be immediately returned to the water.”

    biggill
    East Bethel, MN
    Posts: 11321
    #1767958

    I’m not sure where the confusion is. The law is written pretty clearly in my opinion. The reg book too.

    It clearly states that border waters it is illegal to keep a foul hooked fish. Inland waters it is illegal to intentionally snag a fish.

    The CO confirmed this.

    big_g
    Isle, MN
    Posts: 22210
    #1767961

    The way I read it too, if it was not “intentional” legal… but when someone messages a CO and they say “Illegal return it”, I take issue with it then. If they don’t know the reg, how can someone else ? And for those who say, take it to court and spend your time and money, no thanks, it shouldn’t take that to keep a clearly legal fish. Clear up the language or educate the CO’s.

    blank
    Posts: 1757
    #1767984

    While watching annoying Johnsonville Gillespie today fish walleyes on the Wolf River they caught two fish (one walleye one pike) that were hooked outside of the mouth and he emphasized both times that those fish must be released because they were not hooked inside the mouth.

    Harvester
    Posts: 23
    #1767988

    Not sure where the confusion is… the CO’s were in agreement. The first confirmed that in Pool 4 you cannot keep a foul-hooked fish. The second included that same info on the border rivers and added in the info about the statewide lakes.

    big_g
    Isle, MN
    Posts: 22210
    #1767998

    Here is my confusion…. BK, did you ask the CO specifically for pool 4 or for statewide ? I must have missed the part about for pool 4 was asked… which was not disputed at all in this thread.

    biggill
    East Bethel, MN
    Posts: 11321
    #1767999

    I’m pretty sure this is going to be the answer. If it’s not hooked in the mouth, it’s snagged.

    But, I’ll wait for the Pool 4 CO to reply to my email.

    WI laws may differ and it might be legal to keep a snagged fish on the WI side of the river…I don’t think so, but I’ll wait for confirmation.

    I would assume that his/her response is in relation to p4.

    big_g
    Isle, MN
    Posts: 22210
    #1768005

    So BK is asking questions that have nothing to do with the discussion…??? The border waters regulations are very specific and not in discussion/question ? Page 65 , 2018 regs.

    Wisconsin–Minnesota Regulations

    Two lines with a single lure or bait on each are permitted. If fishing with one line,
    you may use two baits.

    Fish hooked in any part of the body, except the mouth, must be returned to the
    water immediately.

    targaman
    Inactive
    Wilton, WI
    Posts: 2759
    #1768006

    Has anybody ever heard of a chin rig?

    big_g
    Isle, MN
    Posts: 22210
    #1768007

    ballyhoo !!!! jester peace applause

    biggill
    East Bethel, MN
    Posts: 11321
    #1768008

    So BK is asking questions that have nothing to do with the discussion…??? The border waters regulations are very specific and not in discussion/question ?

    Why does that mean it has nothing to do with the conversation? Prior to this thread I’d bet no one knew there was a difference between border waters and inland waters in mn. The OP didn’t specify whether it was regarding MN, WI or border waters.

    Denny O
    Central IOWA
    Posts: 5807
    #1768014

    When my daughter was growing up here at home, I had this scrolling across our computer screen as a screen saver.

    Definition of Character:

    Always doing the right thing, especially when no one is looking.

    big_g
    Isle, MN
    Posts: 22210
    #1768033

    And as the thread progressed, it was clarified. The only thing not clarified is how do the CO’s find “intent” to snag a fish ? Is it as I suggested, way back on page 1, what they require in Alaska… the CO’s visually have to see the angler making the snagging motion and observe holes in the fish, not in the mouth. I think the fact this thread is 4 pages long, people do want to do the right thing… whether someone is watching or not.

    biggill
    East Bethel, MN
    Posts: 11321
    #1768063

    What’s the right thing and why? This isn only directed at you big-g, I’ve seen so many others say the “right thing” but it hasn’t been elaborated.

    If it’s legal to keep a chin hooked walleye, I usually will. I think everyone I know would too.

    If it’s illegal I won’t.

    Same as fishing for walleyes out of season. I will not intend to fish for walleyes out of season.

    I don’t really care what public opinion is. I have faith in most of our laws and that our COs will uphold the law according to the intent of the law.

    big_g
    Isle, MN
    Posts: 22210
    #1768080

    The right thing is to follow the law as written… but first, you need to understand it. There should be no “gray area” or personal opinions/ethics reading into any law. I know personally, I have NEVER attempted to snag a fish in my 50+ years… if I catch one outside the mouth, it is because it caught the back treble or it swiped at my dancing leech and missed it, but got caught on the chin. I don’t know how many northern’s I caught as a kid, trolling in the 14′ Sears Aluminum with the 3 horse Johnson puttering along, by the gills and even in the eyes.. they strike with such a vengeance… just about every one went on the stringer. I didn’t think twice about it and wouldn’t today… is that legal.. the way I read it, I had no intent to do it, so it is.

    FishBlood&RiverMud
    Prescott
    Posts: 6687
    #1768108

    What if you hook it from outside the mouth but the hook point is inside the mouth?

    waytogo

    Dave maze
    Isanti
    Posts: 958
    #1768111

    What if I’m using a 2 hook snell, and one hook is foul and one is not. How do I know if it was fouled first or legally hooked first? I guess my real question is, who’s on first?

    Walleyestudent Andy Cox
    Garrison MN-Mille Lacs
    Posts: 4484
    #1768112

    I don’t know how many northern’s I caught as a kid, trolling in the 14′ Sears Aluminum with the 3 horse Johnson puttering along, by the gills and even in the eyes.. they strike with such a vengeance… just about every one went on the stringer. I didn’t think twice about it and wouldn’t today… is that legal.. the way I read it, I had no intent to do it, so it is.

    And are you still out in Sears boat with Johnson 3, big_g? Ha, just couldn’t resist… jester

    Thinking this thread is burning out. Nowhere else to go with it.

    Let this one go with a collective chuckle… lol

    Attachments:
    1. Sears-Aluminum-Fishing-Boat.jpg

    milemark_714
    Posts: 1285
    #1768177

    Has anybody ever heard of a chin rig?

    It’s called a stinger hook.I know someone that got pinched for keeping a chin hooked sauger,using a jig with a stinger hook.Ticket was given from a warden from MN.187.00 or so damage.

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