Changes to Process for Issuing Fishing, Hunting Licenses in MN

After the MNLARS mess at the DMV, not real confident the state will get this right. Also share concerns with retailers having access to my personal information on their computers.

http://kstp.com/news/retailers-worry-changes-process-issuing-hunting-fishing-licenses-minnesota-dnr/4851500/?cat=1

Retailers Worry About Changes to Process for Issuing Fishing, Hunting Licenses

April 03, 2018 07:57 PM

The Minnesota Department of Natural Resources (DNR) says it is modernizing its system for issuing hunting and fishing licenses.

It’s a move the DNR says will save $1.5 million per year when the new system is in place in 2020.

However, some local bait shops, and other retail outlets who sell those licenses, are afraid the changes may mean increased costs for them.

“Now they want us to buy equipment, and pay for computer equipment which might be $500,” said Pat Reicherts, the owner of the Big Marine Lake Store in Scandia.

In the last few days, those businesses have received a letter from the DNR saying they will now be responsible for providing their own computers to implement the new system.

Previously, the DNR has sent retailers electric licensing system (ELS) computers and printers designed specifically for issuing licenses.
Now the DNR is doing away with those computers.

Reicherts said the store already uses its own computer for bookkeeping and other functions.

But he’d have to buy a new one with a special printer to handle license transactions.

“I didn’t think it was going to be our dime on the whole thing,” he said of the changes. “Our dime. Our liability for data theft. You know, there’s a lot that goes along with it.”

Bait shops like Big Marine get only $1 per fishing or hunting license. So selling licenses has always been more of a loss-leader than a money maker.

A DNR spokesman said the department values the role of agents in selling hunting and fishing licenses.

“If they have concerns about the new system, we’d love to hear from them,” DNR spokesman Chris Niskanen said in an email.

Niskanen said the state issued 1.5 million fishing licenses and 580,000 hunting and trapping licenses last year, and 88 percent of those transactions were from retailers and county registrars.

Only 12 percent were sold online by the DNR, or directly at DNR headquarters.

The new system, which is still in the early design phase, won’t go online until March 2020. So Niskanen said there’s still time for input about how the system should work.

“We are still in the design phase, so this is a great time for retail agents to let us know what’s on their mind,” he said.

Reicherts said one thing on his mind is the fact that the $1 transaction fee retailers can charge hasn’t gone up in at least 15 years, while the cost of fishing and hunting licenses have gone up several dollars.

Niskanen said that $1 fee is prescribed in law, but an increase could be considered by the legislature.

Reicherts said if the fee stays the same, and retailers have the added burden of paying for computer equipment, it could now be difficult just to break even on the license sales.

He said he sold 2,231 licenses last year and collected $2,231 in fees. However, he figures his labor cost for processing the licenses at about five minutes per transaction probably totaled $1,831.

Beyond the financial issues, Reicherts worries about the security of customer information being routed through personal computers at bait shops around the state.

Niskanen said the state takes that issue very seriously.

“Since we’re in the early stages of the design…we are working with potential vendors to ensure the system is secure as possible,” he said. “It’s one of our highest priorities.”

Jon Jordan wrote:

He said he sold 2,231 licenses last year and collected $2,231 in fees. However, he figures his labor cost for processing the licenses at about five minutes per transaction probably totaled $1,831.

They really can’t count the time spent selling the license as additional labor. If they want to do that, then they should figure in the incremental sales from folks purchasing other items that came in to pick up the fishing license.

Most if not all bait shops have a computer and printer already. Forget about the ELS system. Let them buy the license on line at the bait shop, print and have them send it by email to their phone or home computer.

Zero security exposure
Almost zero expense.
Allowing the customers to buy their own license will take almost zero time from their employees as well.

Brian Klawitter wrote:

Most if not all bait shops have a computer and printer already. Forget about the ELS system. Let them buy the license on line at the bait shop, print and have them send it by email to their phone or home computer.

Zero security exposure
Almost zero expense.
Allowing the customers to buy their own license will take almost zero time from their employees as well.

Love this in theory. BUT. I think part of the reason why only 12% are purchasing their license online is because the DNR’s website leaves a lot to be desired. It’s easy for someone who comes back every year to repeat the transaction, but for the occasional user it’s tough. The stores would spend more time trying to help people thru the process I think.

The stores could also charge for a paper license to generate some income? I was stopped on the river last week and the CO’s were fine with the PDF on my phone. They even said they could just look up the license via my drivers license.

“To err is human. To really screw things up, give the state of Minnesota a computer”

I think Socrates said that.

S.R.

All these “thinkers” the state employs should be on some serious drugs….maybe that would prevent them from over-thinking simple things. Maybe a guy should buy the 2020 deer license now so he’s fairly well assured of having one to take in the field with him.

So you’re saying I’m going to have to wait 6+ months for my licenses like I am for my truck???

I’m at 9 months waiting for trailer title card right now!

-J.

The missing link in the bait shops argument is the foot traffic license selling can create. Sure, they only get $1 for each transaction, but there’s a good chance the customer may buy bait, hooks or other tackle while he/she is there. The small upfront cost to sell the licenses could be sought as an “investment” in the shop.

404 ERROR wrote:

The missing link in the bait shops argument is the foot traffic license selling can create. Sure, they only get $1 for each transaction, but there’s a good chance the customer may buy bait, hooks or other tackle while he/she is there. The small upfront cost to sell the licenses could be sought as an “investment” in the shop.

Yeah very true. One thing that transcends across almost all the business world is ways to “get the customer in the door.”

I agree with BK that the shops get additional sales when somebody comes in and purchases a license. It’s optional for the shops to sell these so if it costs to much, don’t sell them. Money, money, money everything is about money.

BTW, everybody that says this is a digital age and everybody does everything on the computer………….the 12% says otherwise.

I’d also like to know where the DNR will waste that $1.5 million they are going to save. The present system works, lets leave well enough alone. Whoever dreamed this up should dream up something else to justify their job.

Dutchboy wrote:

I agree with BK that the shops get additional sales when somebody comes in and purchases a license. It’s optional for the shops to sell these so if it costs to much, don’t sell them. Money, money, money everything is about money.

BTW, everybody that says this is a digital age and everybody does everything on the computer………….the 12% says otherwise.

I’d also like to know where the DNR will waste that $1.5 million they are going to save. The present system works, lets leave well enough alone. Whoever dreamed this up should dream up something else to justify their job.

Dutchboy wrote:

I agree with BK that the shops get additional sales when somebody comes in and purchases a license. It’s optional for the shops to sell these so if it costs to much, don’t sell them. Money, money, money everything is about money.

BTW, everybody that says this is a digital age and everybody does everything on the computer………….the 12% says otherwise.

I’d also like to know where the DNR will waste that $1.5 million they are going to save. The present system works, lets leave well enough alone. Whoever dreamed this up should dream up something else to justify their job.

AGREED, if it ain’t broke….

I don’t think you can count add on sales from the license transaction when a license is only purchased once a year. Most likely the shopper is already there purchasing other things and the license is the add on sale.

That is how it works for me. I was at Fleet Farm purchasing other stuff and noticed there was no line at customer service so I picked up my license as a bonus during a trip for other stuff. I would like to think that it probably works that way for most shoppers.

If you are on a fishing trip from out of town you are still probably stopping for bait and picking up a license while you are there. The next day you might be back for more bait and ice but no license. The license was the add on sale. Not the other way around.

The other issue I did not see mentioned in this article is privacy concerns with people’s data. The current system presumably is a closed system supplied by the DNR. Similar to how credit card readers work.

This plan is to cost shift the price of the system to the store owner who would buy and use any old computer purchased from anywhere. Connect it to the internet and as a side business use it to apply for and print licenses for customers.

If this happens, I will definitely be buying my own licenses online through the DNR via my own computer that has anti-spyware and I know is virus free.

I bought my 2018 license from the comfort of my Lazyboy. Called the number, spoke to a nice lady, got a confirmation #, and received my license in a few days. Easy-peasy

Kyhl wrote:

The other issue I did not see mentioned in this article is privacy concerns with people’s data. The current system presumably is a closed system supplied by the DNR. Similar to how credit card readers work.

This plan is to cost shift the price of the system to the store owner who would buy and use any old computer purchased from anywhere. Connect it to the internet and as a side business use it to apply for and print licenses for customers.

This is actually addressed in the article but I agree it’s a problem. Pokes an additional hole in the suggestion that shops have self-service computers available? Are you gonna stroll into Kathy’s Live Bait and enter your social security number, driver’s license, or credit card info into their chromebook on an unsecured wifi network? No thanks.

Kyhl wrote:

I don’t think you can count add on sales from the license transaction when a license is only purchased once a year. Most likely the shopper is already there purchasing other things and the license is the add on sale.

I think it’s probably a little from each column. A lot of people fish once a year and they pick up everything, including the license, at the baitshop on the way out.

pool2fool wrote:

This is actually addressed in the article but I agree it’s a problem. Pokes an additional hole in the suggestion that shops have self-service computers available? Are you gonna stroll into Kathy’s Live Bait and enter your social security number, driver’s license, or credit card info into their chromebook on an unsecured wifi network? No thanks.

Oops. I missed that. I agree with you there though. No thanks.

Simple fix here guys…if you’re a store owner complaining about the “extra cost”, then don’t offer this service. Simple!

But I’d agree with others, they recoup their cost by getting people in the door, at a very little expense of around $500. I ALWAYS stop at the same gas station on the way to the cabin cause it sells non-oxy gas, bait, beer, and licenses. Take one away and I’ll go elsewhere. I love this one-stop shop and they’ve seen my $ for about ten years.

As someone who’s spent years issuing licenses, I have to say even for me it’s really tough to guess if the average bait shop comes out ahead or not. I would guess that maybe 75% of the licenses I sold over the years were license-only transactions, or maybe a license and a pop or candy bar. Not to mention when you get three, four, five, or more guys showing up on their way up north, and they all need to grab licenses; there goes up to half an hour, especially if its their first time. Not to mention the people who have technical issues and expect you to resolve them, or the night before fishing/deer/duck opener, when you can spend literally hours straight running licenses. Now when you’re talking a deficit of only a few hundred dollars a year, the 25% of guys who buy stuff besides their licenses do probably make up for that, so it’s a tough argument to make.

I think it’s more of a personal issue. Do you believe that it’s fair for the state to require these businesses to spend their own money so that the state can function more efficiently? It seems like they’re basically saving that $1.5 million by just requiring business owners to pay it themselves, and I don’t necessarily think that’s fair. The businesses are already basically doing the customers and state a favor by offering the licenses in the first place, so I don’t really like the idea of placing an additional burden on them. Yes they may make a little on the customers who stop in to purchase licenses, but how many of those customers would go there either way? I would think most of them.

Jon Jordan wrote:

I’m at 9 months waiting for trailer title card right now!

-J.

Me too! I’ve been waiting 11 months for my boat plate!

In a related story just released….. State just keep screwing up computer system updates:

Glitches Delay Launch of Another MNIT Software Project

April 03, 2018 10:47 PM

The head of the Minnesota Information Technology Services Department (MNIT) says the launch of a computer software program for the Department of Human Services will be delayed until at least July.

MNIT Commissioner Johanna Clyborne told 5 EYEWITNESS NEWS her agency did the right thing by halting the software launch until all its problems are fixed.

“We would be doing the citizens of Minnesota a disservice if I allowed a project to roll out that is not at the function level it needs to be at,” Clyborne said.

The program is called Periodic Data Matching. It is intended to prevent people who do not qualify from being enrolled in taxpayer-financed health care programs.

State Sen. Michelle Benson, R-Ham Lake, chairs the Human Services Committee. She said the PDM is projected to save taxpayers $138 million through the 2019 biennium budget.

“This is shameful because DHS has already budgeted for those savings,” Benson said.

“That money will now have to come from the general fund, and it could have been used to help the elderly in nursing homes, or the disabled who might need support. And because the software is not working, money is still going to people who do not qualify for those state-funded medical care programs.”

DHS Commissioner Charles Johnson said his agency is disappointed by the delay. But he said the department will be able to cover the lost savings through other state funds.

“We really need to balance the loss of those savings with ensuring that we are rolling out a program that counties are prepared to handle and there are not too many defects in the code,” Johnson said.

Clyborne said Minnesota taxpayers should still have confidence in MNIT, even though the agency is still struggling with the computer glitches that have plagued the MNLARS program – putting 200,000 Minnesotans on a waiting list to get their car registration and driver’s licenses renewed.

“We have 360 computer software projects that have not had any problems, and in this case we are doing the right thing by not rolling it out until it is ready,” she said.

Clyborne and Johnson are confident the PDM program will be up and running by the end of July.

It was supposed to launch this week.

But Benson said lawmakers are growing more frustrated with MNIT’s recent troubles. She said having another large computer software project delay a state program designed to save taxpayers’ money is “unacceptable.”

Jon Jordan wrote:

lawmakers are growing more frustrated with MNIT’s recent troubles. She said having another large computer software project delay a state program designed to save taxpayers’ money is “unacceptable.”

Jon Jordan wrote:

PDM is projected to save taxpayers $138 million

Jon Jordan wrote:

This is shameful because DHS has already budgeted for those savings

Have to love it, oh we should have this money so let’s spend it.

Wisconsin has it figured out. I just bought fishing licenses for my wife and I when I saw this post. Took 5 min from idea to print out. Done. Then I took the prints to Office Max and got them laminated. More Done.

So the State of Minnesota computer made it through Y2k but failed on a software update 17 years later?

Like Suzuki, I transfered my new used camper into my name in WI. 20 minutes and I had the NEW TITLE IN MY HAND. No mail, no nuthin but a big smile on my face.

I thought I should mention that I have a friend in Iowa (yes I have one friend) that owns a bait shop. He can’t sell licenses…and was told there were 48 businesses ahead of him for the state’s computers.

i sat down two weeks ago and bought my resident Wisconsin fishing and deer hunting licenses, my non-resident Minnesota fishing license (i’ll add deer hunting later), and my non-resident Ontario fishing license. it took about 30 minutes from the comfort of my home to have them all printed out and stuck in my license holder. and i’ll spend exactly the same amount on coffee and donuts in each of those places as i would have if i picked up the license in person.

it’s easy to understand why some retailers don’t like a new cost and complain about the amount of time it takes to issues licenses. but of course, if the DNR took away the option and switched to selling them only online, those same retailers would complain about not being allowed to provide the service in order to get those time-consuming customers in the door. frankly, if you’re relying on fishing license sales to bring business in your door you might not be long for it…

I am able to register boats, ATV’s and sleds in Wi since I own property there. It makes licensing for all those items ridiculously easy. GoWild

What business doesn’t have to update equipment in this day and age?

Dont like it, don’t buy the machine and hope it works out for ya.

We don’t know what the new system actually is. The DNR press release about it said:

“Customers will find it easier to purchase licenses and tags online and record their harvests from a mobile device or computer 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.”

True modernization would be not having a reason to go buy it from an agent. I wonder why only 12% of them are sold online, it’s not hard at all. I’d like to see an age breakdown of online sales vs agent sales

You’d be surprised at the number of people who refuse to do any type of online purchase or banking.

blackbay wrote:

You’d be surprised at the number of people who refuse to do any type of online purchase or banking.

I wouldn’t be.

So, Facebook says 87 million users had their information taken. The firm accused of it says it’s only 37 million. So 50 million are unaccounted for. And remember, not one of these thefts has been accurately reported first time out. Usually the number doubles or triples.

Much as there is no such thing as safe ice, there really is no 100% secure internet site. I don’t care who’s it is. The crooks are smarter then the developers, always have been, always will be.

Dutchboy wrote:

Facebook says 87 million users had their information taken.

All of those/us FB users agreed to share their info when they signed up. Facebook sold the info. Um, yeah, that’s how they make money…. Nothing was ever “taken”. The only reason this is a story is because the info was used help elect Trump. Whether it actually helped is up for debate. Dems use the same resources/tactics. Its classic fake news.

-J.

Nothing fake about it. The information is gone whether taken or sold. I would bet you never read the whole conditions of use pages when you signed up. Unless you are a lawyer you wouldn’t have understood it if you had read it. Anyway thats not the point. Point is there is nothing on-line that can’t be hacked.