WHERE THE HECK DOES IT SAY 7″ BULLHEADS ARE BAIT?

I’ve been wading thru legal jargon this morning looking for the definitions of legal bait in the MN legislature records, court decisions, blah blah blah. I can’t find it in the rule book, I can’t find it in the statutes, I can’t find it anywhere.

I need to take it up to Thorne Bros. and wave it in the face of the guy who chewed my this morning for having the gall to suggest they start carrying ILLEGAL BAIT. This was followed by a brief lecture on the lifecycle of bullheads and how they’re called “willowcats” when they’re tiny, and they’re _also_ illegal to be used as bait in MN. And, just to top it off, I was instructed to “get used to disappointment”.

It was a huge bummer, too, because I had a really god stop there, lots of good time chatting with the employees, got my rod top fixed for $10 while I waited… but the -hole who saw fit jump right down my throat sorta ruined the whole trip.

that sucks, some people should just mind there business. theres another post asking about poles and bait on the ‘ssippi, and for live bait one of the responses is you can use whatever you catch legally, but it counts against your total limit. i know with WI trout streams you can only use the live bait you catch out of the river there on site and it cant be taken to any others, so that could be similar maybe? hope you find the answer, and forget about the hat

Minnows– Members of the minnow family, except carp and goldfish; bullheads,
ciscoes, lake whitefish, goldeyes, and mooneyes (not over 7 inches
long); suckers (not over 12 inches long); mud minnows, leeches, tadpole
madtoms and stonecats. (Note: border water regulations may vary.)

BTW, it’s on page 3 of the regs…

BK…..you ever heard of anything about 7″ bullheads???? . You ever dealt with this “issue”?

He just carries a scissors and cuts them off at the adipose fin.

[Joke!]

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This was followed by a brief lecture on the lifecycle of bullheads and how they’re called “willowcats” when they’re tiny

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That made me chuckle….that guy is on top of his game.

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This was followed by a brief lecture on the lifecycle of bullheads and how they’re called “willowcats” when they’re tiny

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That made me chuckle….that guy is on top of his game.

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Exactly my thought.

I’m a big fan of thornebros but IMO they are just what they say “custom rod and tackle” shop and not a bait shop. I’ve tried there bait a few times and have never been happy with it. Especially when you want bulk and I get them counting minnow by minnow. One heck of a store but IMO VADOS!

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BTW, it’s on page 3 of the regs…

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Double-you tee eff… so it is.

I’ve been looking everywhere for it and it was right there in front of me the whole time.

Thanks Chris! Somehow in all my searching I missed that one paragraph. I wish I’d known that this morning!

The dude lectured me on how they couldn’t carry illegal bait and bullheads are gamefish and when they’re little they’re called willowcats and they’re illegal to use for bait too… I didn’t realize that they’re the same thing as “Tadpole Madtoms”. That’s one question I couldn’t have answered.

Anyway… sorry for the redundant posts but I still get a bit steamed up about it when I think about it. I mean, if you’re going to be rude and arrogant to a customer you could at LEAST try to get your facts straight, right?

BK is at his camper and has no internet service but I am sure he would be able to point ANYONE with questions regarding bullhead usage in the rite direction

Most questions like this are best answered when a simple phone call is made or e-mail is sent to the DNR.

And my answer to the question is “It all depends on which side of the tracks you are on”

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BTW, it’s on page 3 of the regs…

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Double-you tee eff… so it is.

I’ve been looking everywhere for it and it was right there in front of me the whole time.

Thanks Chris! Somehow in all my searching I missed that one paragraph. I wish I’d known that this morning!

The dude lectured me on how they couldn’t carry illegal bait and bullheads are gamefish and when they’re little they’re called willowcats and they’re illegal to use for bait too… I didn’t realize that they’re the same thing as “Tadpole Madtoms”. That’s one question I couldn’t have answered.

Anyway… sorry for the redundant posts but I still get a bit steamed up about it when I think about it. I mean, if you’re going to be rude and arrogant to a customer you could at LEAST try to get your facts straight, right?

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Leave those willowcats alone!

Sorry for not getting this to you faster big guy. Been kinda busy as of late and lost track of sending it to you.

Tuck is a walking Fishing Law Book!

Here’s the statues and a couple quotes for you.

97A.015<<

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Subd. 29.Minnows.

“Minnows” means: (1) members of the minnow family, Cyprinidae, except carp and goldfish; (2) members of the mudminnow family, Umbridae; (3) members of the sucker family, Catostomidae, not over 12 inches in length; (4) bullheads, ciscoes, lake whitefish, goldeyes, and mooneyes, not over seven inches long; (5) leeches; and (6) tadpole madtoms (willow cats) and stonecats.

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Subd. 25.Game fish.

“Game fish” means walleye, sauger, yellow perch, channel catfish, flathead catfish; members of the pike family, Esocidae, including muskellunge and northern pike; members of the sunfish family, Centrarchidae, including largemouth bass, smallmouth bass, sunfish, rock bass, white crappie, black crappie, members of the temperate bass family, Percichthyidae, including white bass and yellow bass; members of the salmon and trout subfamily, Salmoninae, including Atlantic salmon, chinook salmon, coho salmon, pink salmon, kokanee salmon, lake trout, brook trout, brown trout, rainbow (steelhead) trout, and splake; members of the paddlefish family, Polyodontidae; members of the sturgeon family, Acipenseridae, including lake sturgeon, and shovelnose sturgeon. “Game fish” includes hybrids of game fish.

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Subd. 43.Rough fish.

“Rough fish” means carp, buffalo, sucker, sheepshead, bowfin, burbot, cisco, gar, goldeye, and bullhead.

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Y’all rock.

Thank you!

How many guys can tell the difference between a tiny black bullhead and tadpole madtom? Its easy if you know, but I bet the bait shop guys don’t. Don’t get me started on stonecats and the rest (including little flatheads).

That’s not the point, though. The point is that the guy in charge of the live bait for a bait shop should be expected to keep his head out of his , have a bit of knowledge about both the life cycles and the legal status of his product. This guy (who’s name I failed to get) was tall, 40-something, broad shoulders, and was hauling buckets and buckets of minnows in from a pickup truck.

The way the other employees acted it seemed like he was a top dog of some sort. The kind of guy you’d expect to at least know something about something before reaming a customer.

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That’s not the point, though. The point is that the guy in charge of the live bait for a bait shop should be expected to keep his head out of his , have a bit of knowledge about both the life cycles and the legal status of his product. This guy (who’s name I failed to get) was tall, 40-something, broad shoulders, and was hauling buckets and buckets of minnows in from a pickup truck.

The way the other employees acted it seemed like he was a top dog of some sort. The kind of guy you’d expect to at least know something about something before reaming a customer.

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5 minutes from my work – may have to go ask if they carry bullheads…..

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5 minutes from my work – may have to go ask if they carry bullheads…..

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That would be pretty funny. When he says no, then say, “Well I guess I could settle for a couple willow cats. Can I get a dozen”?

Please, dude, DO IT. Then ask for a copy of the rules and show him page 3!

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That’s not the point, though. The point is that the guy in charge of the live bait for a bait shop should be expected to keep his head out of his , have a bit of knowledge about both the life cycles and the legal status of his product. This guy (who’s name I failed to get) was tall, 40-something, broad shoulders, and was hauling buckets and buckets of minnows in from a pickup truck.

The way the other employees acted it seemed like he was a top dog of some sort. The kind of guy you’d expect to at least know something about something before reaming a customer.

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Jared:

Sorry to hear of your experience. It’s never fun to be read the riot-act, let alone for something as silly as this. That said, I know most of the employees there by name, and nobody tall, in their 40’s, with broad shoulders comes to mind. The fact that they were hauling in buckets of minnows leads me to believe it might be somebody that works for their bait dealer. You can never tell for sure, and maybe somebody just had a bad day, but I know those folks, and treatment of customers like you describe isn’t something they tolerate. The other tip-off is that most of them would know that a tadpole madtom (willow cat) is a completely different species than any of the bullheads or catfish in MN.

Nevertheless, this is a store and company which absolutely prides itself in taking care of you, the customer. They’re not lost on the fact that there’s a retail giant in the area, and they do their very best to make sure there’s a reason you shop there, not the big-box. Customer service is a huge part of what they do, and do so very well. In this case, if you’re upset about it I’d let them know. The problem will be corrected. Go to http://www.thornebros.com or email them at [email protected]. If you stop in, talk to Nelly, Pat, Matt, or any of the other staff and they’ll get you squared-away.

Joel

Willow cats are not bullheads as Joel touched on. Move across the river Minnesotan and feel free to use large bullheads and bluegills. I am surprised Brian hasn’t put out a mailbox at his RV and given up on the great state. We have better football here anyway.

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Sorry for not getting this to you faster big guy. Been kinda busy as of late and lost track of sending it to you.

Tuck is a walking Fishing Law Book!

Here’s the statues and a couple quotes for you.

97A.015<<

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Subd. 29.Minnows.

“Minnows” means: (1) members of the minnow family, Cyprinidae, except carp and goldfish; (2) members of the mudminnow family, Umbridae; (3) members of the sucker family, Catostomidae, not over 12 inches in length; (4) bullheads, ciscoes, lake whitefish, goldeyes, and mooneyes, not over seven inches long; (5) leeches; and (6) tadpole madtoms (willow cats) and stonecats.

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Subd. 25.Game fish.

“Game fish” means walleye, sauger, yellow perch, channel catfish, flathead catfish; members of the pike family, Esocidae, including muskellunge and northern pike; members of the sunfish family, Centrarchidae, including largemouth bass, smallmouth bass, sunfish, rock bass, white crappie, black crappie, members of the temperate bass family, Percichthyidae, including white bass and yellow bass; members of the salmon and trout subfamily, Salmoninae, including Atlantic salmon, chinook salmon, coho salmon, pink salmon, kokanee salmon, lake trout, brook trout, brown trout, rainbow (steelhead) trout, and splake; members of the paddlefish family, Polyodontidae; members of the sturgeon family, Acipenseridae, including lake sturgeon, and shovelnose sturgeon. “Game fish” includes hybrids of game fish.

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Subd. 43.Rough fish.

“Rough fish” means carp, buffalo, sucker, sheepshead, bowfin, burbot, cisco, gar, goldeye, and bullhead.

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And I’m the walking law book!

Glad we could get you the info! There has been a lot of work done on “Enhancing” the size of bullheads we can use for bait. (Thanks in large part to BK.) But I remembered from some of my questions in the past that it had to do with “Minnows” and not “Bait.”

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That’s not the point, though. The point is that the guy in charge of the live bait for a bait shop should be expected to keep his head out of his , have a bit of knowledge about both the life cycles and the legal status of his product. This guy (who’s name I failed to get) was tall, 40-something, broad shoulders, and was hauling buckets and buckets of minnows in from a pickup truck.

The way the other employees acted it seemed like he was a top dog of some sort. The kind of guy you’d expect to at least know something about something before reaming a customer.

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Jared:

Sorry to hear of your experience. It’s never fun to be read the riot-act, let alone for something as silly as this. That said, I know most of the employees there by name, and nobody tall, in their 40’s, with broad shoulders comes to mind. The fact that they were hauling in buckets of minnows leads me to believe it might be somebody that works for their bait dealer. You can never tell for sure, and maybe somebody just had a bad day, but I know those folks, and treatment of customers like you describe isn’t something they tolerate. The other tip-off is that most of them would know that a tadpole madtom (willow cat) is a completely different species than any of the bullheads or catfish in MN.

Nevertheless, this is a store and company which absolutely prides itself in taking care of you, the customer. They’re not lost on the fact that there’s a retail giant in the area, and they do their very best to make sure there’s a reason you shop there, not the big-box. Customer service is a huge part of what they do, and do so very well. In this case, if you’re upset about it I’d let them know. The problem will be corrected. Go to <a href=”www.thornebros.com” target=”_blank”>www.thornebros.com</a> or email them at [email protected]. If you stop in, talk to Nelly, Pat, Matt, or any of the other staff and they’ll get you squared-away.

Joel

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My thoughts were that it was probably a driver/delivery guy for the bait dealer. probably not to well informed. I have had great luck/experiences at Thorne Bros. as well, aand would be surprised to learn it was an employee.

On a different but related subject. There’s been a few that asked me about cats and snagging.

There thought was that if a catfish is a rough fish, they could legally be snagged (rough fish can be kept when foul hooked). I had to do a little research myself and found that both cats in MN are listed as Game Fish, and clearly Game Fish can not be kept when snagged or foul hooked.

Can any foul hooked (snagged) fish be kept in MN? I thought the regs said that was a no no?

Checking the laws….

I broke my own rule with not following through in researching. Thanks for the question D!

97C.331 SNAGGING FISH PROHIBITED.
Subdivision 1.General prohibition.

A person may not:

(1) intentionally take fish by snagging; or

(2) use a snagline, snagpole, snaghook, or cluster of fish hooks, designed to be placed in or drawn through the water to hook the body of a fish.
Subd. 2.Prohibition on Lake Superior tributaries.

On tributaries to Lake Superior below the posted boundaries, and on tributaries to Lake Superior with no posted boundaries, a fish that is hooked in any part of the body except in the mouth must be immediately unhooked and returned to the water.

It ran through my mind this weekend as I hooked a carp well over 10lbs pretty much right in the middle of its body this weekend (accident). It got out into heavy current and there was no catching that one on the light rig I was using.

i also love thorne bros stuff that they sell like nice no roll sinkers which are hard to find where i live but i think some of their employees are misinformed i heard a employee telling a guy he should buy 8/0 circle hooks for channel catfishing the mississippi which is obviously way to large for channels but i steered the guy in the right direction

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Nevertheless, this is a store and company which absolutely prides itself in taking care of you, the customer. They’re not lost on the fact that there’s a retail giant in the area, and they do their very best to make sure there’s a reason you shop there, not the big-box. Customer service is a huge part of what they do, and do so very well. In this case, if you’re upset about it I’d let them know. The problem will be corrected. Go to <a href=”www.thornebros.com” target=”_blank”>www.thornebros.com</a> or email them at [email protected]. If you stop in, talk to Nelly, Pat, Matt, or any of the other staff and they’ll get you squared-away.

Joel

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Joel,

Based on your comments and Chris’s “me too” I’ll give them another chance.

It was weird though, the guy was yelling at store employees and me, kept saying “we” can’t carry this or that… tho maybe “we” meant a bait dealer?

Either way, I’ll stop back up there and try to see what’s what. If it weren’t for you two I’d write them off entirely. The nice thing is they’re close… and they do have no rolls and heavy Gamkatsu circle hooks, which is nice in a bait shop. They have no-rolls in 1 oz to 8 oz sizes, too.

And the guys in the bait shop were actually pretty psyched about trying to carry bullies, which would be awesome. Big game gear, no-rolls, bullies and big suckers, all in the same place? The only other place you’ll find that is at Moore’s and their selection isn’t quite as good, IIRC.