2 line rule 2010

  • dtro
    Inactive
    Jordan
    Posts: 1501
    #1221863

    Well the clock is winding down on our chance to have 2 lines again.

    House File 3124 (HF3124)
    Senate File 2900 (SF2900)–no 2 line rule amendment

    I received an email from Rep Juhnke who is the co sponsor of the HF I belive and was told that the file will probably pass today, (but it WILL pass the house) and those that support this should contact Sen Chaudhary to voice our opinion and show our support.

    [email protected]

    I’ve sent my email, and will wait, that is about all I can do.

    I know that there are some possible repercussions of this passing in regards to overharvest or whatever, but for this one thing, I’m going to be a little selfish. I would like to see this pass.

    Remember, this is also the same bill which includes wording about the 10″ bullheads and also 12″ suckers. I don’t see any issues with that being taken out at the last minute though.

    timschmitz
    Waconia MN
    Posts: 1652
    #870904

    This is also the same bill that will make spearing leagal on Cass lake. I hope this fails

    dtro
    Inactive
    Jordan
    Posts: 1501
    #870906

    Since it’s kind of an ominbus bill, it will more than likely pass (as a bill) with certain things being removed individually before being passed. I’m sure the spearing statute will be one of them that goes back and forth at the bell.

    jonny p
    Waskish, MN
    Posts: 668
    #870911

    Quote:


    This is also the same bill that will make spearing leagal on Cass lake. I hope this fails


    Yes that is truly a bad deal. Next rumored agenda for that lobbyist group is Upper Red Lake and removal of the pike slot reg and prevention of the proposed trophy pike regulations…they are about to urine off Jonny and I got nothing but time.

    Two line law, love it. I do not think it will affect overharvest or mortaliy numbers on the legal side. It will help the non sportsman conduct performed by a misguided few. I say catch em and let the cat guys have their way with em. Sadly those that overharvest will do it with one or two rods.

    ggoody
    Mpls MN
    Posts: 2603
    #870916

    Lobbyist Group?

    I was under the impression that the Cass area local business’s along with elected officials were spearheading “no Pun” the removal of the spearing ban on Cass to increase tourism?
    I don’t think letting 1 percent of the licensed fishermen spear for 2 1/2 months during the shortest days of the year will impact the fishery much at all.

    Now on the other hand I am against the removal of the slot regulations on Red for Northern so we’re cool there johnny….

    I have no problem with anyone against spearing in general but I hate to see any of our sportsman’s rights taken away!

    dfresh
    Fridley, MN
    Posts: 3053
    #870918

    I think I’ve brought it up before, but what I thought would work and make sense for allowing 2 lines in MN is to allow it with the purchase of a conservation license. You are already agreeing to limit your harvest at that point.

    Walleyebry
    Isle, mn.
    Posts: 145
    #870933

    I think if worse case senario they should allow 2 lines when trolling artifical baits only. I can somewhat see the where this could be an issue when a pontoon with ten people pull up to a rock pile or a mud flat and toss out 20 bobbers. Just think how many fish are going to swallow the hook with live bait. At least while trolling cranks, the fish are less likley to be hooked deep. I”m all for 2 lines but maybe with some provisions.

    Walleyebry #993

    joshbjork
    Center of Iowa
    Posts: 727
    #870937

    So, just an exception for you?

    dtro
    Inactive
    Jordan
    Posts: 1501
    #870938

    I received this from Sen Chaudhary and have his blessing to share:

    First, Wisconsin has a variety of tighter regs than ours that offset their multiple lines. Trolling is severely restricted, there are minimum size limits, lower limits, and even some later opening dates. It’s probably not in the spirit of conservation to just pick and choose the convenient rules and leave out the others. Having said that, I WOULD support multiple lines if the other regs such those in Wisconsin are supported too.

    Second, when setting limits, our fisheries managers already factor that most people don’t catch their limit. If two lines are added please don’t forward to catching those six walters quicker, because the DNR would surely lower the limit. The same quite possible for trolling.

    Third, please think about fishing pressure. The faster and harder a fishery gets slammed when the bite gets hot, the worse off the fishing will be for everyone else the rest of the season.

    And the fourth is fishing mortality. How does one reel in two fish at a time? While one is on the hook the other (of unknown size) will often swallow the hook entirely.

    I like the idea of catching fish faster. It’s way more fun that way, especially for kids. But we fishermen should also keep conservation in the front of our minds. How many fish are left for future generations if we only “take, take, take”?

    Maybe we do need to move to a system more like Wisconsin, where there are tight statewide restrictions, and special regs that loosen them depending on the lake, instead of the other way around in MN. That way it won’t matter how fast we catch our limits. But I just don’t think it’s fair, or in the spirit of conservation, to choose the most convenient rules and cast aside the ones that keep our fisheries balanced.

    For anyone interested, I am hosted a “Youth Fishing Opener” this Saturday May 15 on Lake Johanna in Arden Hills, from 8:30am to 12pm. The MN Bass Federation is graciously donating boats, guides, and equipment for any kid who would like to fish, or anyone that hasn’t fished before. There will also be casting clinics and a lunch afterward. There is no cost.

    timschmitz
    Waconia MN
    Posts: 1652
    #870959

    Quote:


    I like the idea of catching fish faster. It’s way more fun that way, especially for kids. But we fishermen should also keep conservation in the front of our minds. How many fish are left for future generations if we only “take, take, take”?


    How in the hell can he say this when this very bill includes spearing a group that dose nothing but take take take What will we have to pass on to our kids? I’ll tell you what another lake full of hammer handle pike. If you don’t think this will harm the pike fishing on Cass I’ll bet anyone $100 that in 5 years the number of 40″ pike will decline.

    dtro
    Inactive
    Jordan
    Posts: 1501
    #870987

    With all due respect Tim, take the Musky goggles off

    This bill has dozens and dozens of new proposals (including lifting the spearing ban on Cass Lake).

    Sen Chaudhary’s response to me was specifically regarding the 2 line rule as this thread is as well.

    Whiskerkev
    Madison
    Posts: 3835
    #870992

    I like my 3 lines, when fish are biting though or if conditions won’t permit using 3 effectively, I go down to two or even one. I have not visited MN fairly often when chances were out there to do so because I hate fishing with one line. There are lakes here in Wisconsin that do not allow trolling, if you want to troll go somewhere else. BFD

    Brian Klawitter
    Keymaster
    Minnesota/Wisconsin Mississippi River
    Posts: 59996
    #871010

    I understand what Sen Chaudhary is getting at…however we have unrestricted two lines in the winter time on our lakes.

    Yes, the ice does restrict a person somewhat that’s true.

    As a cat guy, I’m totally on board with allowing two lines (at least).

    Since the DNR is a data orientated department, I wonder if they have any facts or data to support their claim that two lines will hurt the states fishery. Maybe it’s just “common sense” that two lines in the water will catch twice the fish.

    dr._flathead
    Posts: 220
    #871016

    If they are afraid of over-harvest, I’ve always thought it should be legal to use 2 lines if you have no fish in posession. To me that makes sense.

    Brian Klawitter
    Keymaster
    Minnesota/Wisconsin Mississippi River
    Posts: 59996
    #871027

    Technically they have until Monday, but because of the budget snaffu, Wednesday of this week.

    I thought about posting about the bullhead law yesterday, but I’ve talked about it happening so often…and it didn’t, I didn’t want to jinx it.

    joshbjork
    Center of Iowa
    Posts: 727
    #871056

    Quote:


    I understand what Sen Chaudhary is getting at…however we have unrestricted two lines in the winter time on our lakes.

    Yes, the ice does restrict a person somewhat that’s true.

    As a cat guy, I’m totally on board with allowing two lines (at least).

    Since the DNR is a data orientated department, I wonder if they have any facts or data to support their claim that two lines will hurt the states fishery. Maybe it’s just “common sense” that two lines in the water will catch twice the fish.


    Yeah common sense. I’ve seen people talking about two poles like it would be fishing with dynamite. It’s work to keep two poles in the water unless the fish just aren’t biting. If you snag up and it takes 10 minutes to retie and it happens a few times, people get overwhelmed and give up. I’ve seen it happen.

    They’d sell more tackle.

    Honestly I don’t see why you can’t get it legallized on the rivers at the very least. At least one state has a 2nd or 3rd pole license that’s $10. Wave some monies in front of them and see what happens if all else fails.

    ggoody
    Mpls MN
    Posts: 2603
    #871066

    It’s going to cost us to fish 2 lines. In spite of the DNR being against it money is the sole reason it has a fighting chance this time around.

    I’d pay the presumed fee of $10 for the extra line.

    I think it’s safe to say the harvest will not double with 2 lines but it will go up a bit which could lead to some size and limit restrictions.

    Brian Klawitter
    Keymaster
    Minnesota/Wisconsin Mississippi River
    Posts: 59996
    #871070

    Quote:


    Honestly I don’t see why you can’t get it legallized on the rivers at the very least.


    Funny you say that. Just sent off an email suggesting that very thing.

    For the record, I’m not willing to pay extra to fish with a second line in our lakes. Why? It’s not going to cost the DNR anymore. They won’t be adding people for enforcement…the ink to change the law?

    On the other hand, we should have to pay extra to use explosives. There will be a cost associated with that.

    dtro
    Inactive
    Jordan
    Posts: 1501
    #871074

    Well we all know the best usage of the endorsement fee would be to fund a few more CO’s, but that’s thinking too clearly.

    I’m sure it would instead go to painting a mural on some food CO-OP or funding a study on how to get another mpg out of that Prius.

    Brian Klawitter
    Keymaster
    Minnesota/Wisconsin Mississippi River
    Posts: 59996
    #871076

    Don’t forget the ads on how bad lead is for Mother!

    I’m getting off track!

    ggoody
    Mpls MN
    Posts: 2603
    #871081

    The River angle is great on paper for us but it’s about the money people and River guys don’t have the numbers.

    Think non-general fund on the fee/Stamp does that help?

    tccat
    Minneapolis, MN.
    Posts: 195
    #871092

    Have they ever thought about allowing 2 lines in pool 2 catch and release zone?

    mplspug
    Palmetto, Florida
    Posts: 25026
    #871129

    It is so obvious he is a Columbia Heights alumn.

    If two lines are added please don’t forward to catching those six walters quicker, because the DNR would surely lower the limit.
    :doh:


    Third, please think about fishing pressure. The faster and harder a fishery gets slammed when the bite gets hot, the worse off the fishing will be for everyone else the rest of the season.

    That’s why there are limits. I can’t think of too many lakes where if the “fishing gets hot”, you are going to put a noticeable dent in the population, if that is what he is getting at. This is a completely baseless argument.


    And the fourth is fishing mortality. How does one reel in two fish at a time? While one is on the hook the other (of unknown size) will often swallow the hook entirely.

    As if a fish was never lost from swallowing a hook when someone used one line. Here is what you do, if you have one fish on and while reeling it in your other line gets hit, you set the hook on the second fish and then resume reeling in the first.

    Fishermen are more conservation minded now and won’t fish 2 lines when it is not appropriate. And those who aren’t and like keeping a limit, well a majority of them would go to one line if the action is hot because it is too frustrating trying to manage 2 lines. Using 2 lines is pretty much self regulating. No one is going to use 2 lines when it is a pain to do so in any given situation.


    I like the idea of catching fish faster. It’s way more fun that way, especially for kids. But we fishermen should also keep conservation in the front of our minds. How many fish are left for future generations if we only “take, take, take”?

    Again, that’s why we have limits my fellow CH alumn. And if you think using 2 lines with a kid would be fun, you need your head examined.

    The problem with the arguments against 2 lines is they are knee jerk and shallow. If you think about the topic honestly and with a little more breadth, you start realizing two lines aren’t the road to exhausting the resource, it is a rule that will make fishing more enjoyable and it is a self regulating rule.

    I don’t want to get into politics, but it is pretty obvious when he uses, neigh, exploits children in hyperbole. So is his thinking that someone who wants 2 lines is just trying to steal the resource from future generations? Satveer, if you got guilt issues, don’t project them onto us.

    Most of us who want two lines are conversationalists.


    Maybe we do need to move to a system more like Wisconsin, where there are tight statewide restrictions, and special regs that loosen them depending on the lake, instead of the other way around in MN. That way it won’t matter how fast we catch our limits. But I just don’t think it’s fair, or in the spirit of conservation, to choose the most convenient rules and cast aside the ones that keep our fisheries balanced.

    Fine by me. In fact, I would suggest instead of jumping in the shallow end and contributing to his anxiety over conservation and the future, why not start with 2 lines. One line must use an artificial lure.


    For anyone interested, I am hosted a “Youth Fishing Opener” this Saturday May 15 on Lake Johanna in Arden Hills, from 8:30am to 12pm. The MN Bass Federation is graciously donating boats, guides, and equipment for any kid who would like to fish, or anyone that hasn’t fished before. There will also be casting clinics and a lunch afterward. There is no cost.

    Oh my God no!!! What if the action is hot, you are going to ruin it for the rest of the season for other anglers!!!

    I am so tired of the lame opposition and opposing arguments to this rule. Sir, it is you who we should be asking , “Please think”.

    Brian Klawitter
    Keymaster
    Minnesota/Wisconsin Mississippi River
    Posts: 59996
    #871136

    Nice job Mike!

    Something is just wrong. Most everyone (I talk with)is for two lines but the DNR isn’t.

    I’m not going to believe this is about money…if that was the case, the DNR would be pushing for it along with a fee.

    The just have their feet dug in and aren’t going to budge unless they are pushed over.

    Call me a believer, but I feel strongly that the people against the two line law believe it’s in the best interest of the fish and the people.

    dtro
    Inactive
    Jordan
    Posts: 1501
    #871149

    Well, according to some of the items I’ve been made privy to, the single biggest concern from the DNR is hooking mortality. More hooks in the water simply means more fish getting hooked. Great for the fisherman (C&R and Harvest) but not so good for the fish.

    The next biggest issue is the increased harvest. There have been some studies that have shown the effect of doubling the amount of lines, but there are a lot of factors that play into this one, the biggest being the extra $10. If it was across the board every angler putting another line out, the prediction would be much easier.

    There are a few in the DNR that admit the effect might not be as drastic as others might think, but it comes down to “want” vs “need” and that there is a louder concern for a 4 walleye statewide limit and double trippers.

    I have a hard time arguing with that. Of course all the debate will always come back to the Walleye though and how it affects that population, as I guess it should, money talks right?

    There have been several great ideas to minimize the impacts a second line might bring, they just don’t want deal with the red tape that comes with those ideas.

    Brian Klawitter
    Keymaster
    Minnesota/Wisconsin Mississippi River
    Posts: 59996
    #871152

    Quote:


    there is a louder concern for a 4 walleye statewide limit and double trippers.


    but there’s a law on the books for double tripping…no…I’m keeping my flathead goggles off.

    Darrin, I hate to sound like a special interest group…but, have you ever tossed around the idea of allowing two lines just for cat fishermen?

    dtro
    Inactive
    Jordan
    Posts: 1501
    #871160

    I wouldn’t support that. Then everyone across the state would become “catfisherman”.

    Trolling cranks for cats, lindy rigging for cats, throwing cowgirls for cats, etc etc. We have enough grey areas already.

    I think the proposal as it stands would be the easiest to change, regulate, and enforce.

    mplspug
    Palmetto, Florida
    Posts: 25026
    #871184

    Did Satveer offer any links to studies that support the mortality increase or anything of substance that backs up his claims? I am guessing this email was about it.

    I am sending an email off soon.

    He does have one thing right, special regulations for what fish can be harvested and Wisconsin may be ahead of us on that. I don’t know, because I don’t actually know their regs, so I’ll take his word.

    Why are there so many walleye fisheries that seem to be able to endure heavy pressure and still produce great fishing? Because it’s been ingrained in walleye guys heads that there are eater fish and everything else goes back. Whoever started that one is a genius. So in the culture of walleye fishermen they are already practicing selective harvest and a sound, proven conservation method that keeps a fishery healthy.

    There are special regulations all over North America that fishermen will swear have helped or even improved fisheries. Slot limits, circle hook only rules, catch and release only have been proven to benefit a fishery. Where is Satveer in introducing these sorts of regulations?

    Personally I think that special regulations need to be in place statewide. Most importantly, a protective slot that protects mature females and allowing one fish over the slot range. This thins out the younger class fish a little, while allowing the lower population older classes to thrive, hopefully to trophy size. We have this on a lake I fish and the pike fishing has been very solid for years now with no noticeable fluctuation in the quality of fishing. I also fish a lake that gives up bull sunfish on a regular basis that has special regs on them and the quality of fishing is very consistent.

    Now before you accuse me of a hijack, here’s the payoff pitch. All of these measures would insure quality fishing for generations to come and would negate any real or perceived detriment caused by allowing two lines.

    So if he is concerned about future generations and is serious about regulation changes, then I am going to give him an opportunity to actually back it up.

    ggoody
    Mpls MN
    Posts: 2603
    #871274

    Brian, it’s the politicians who see money coming in from tourism is what I meant by money, at-least that was part of there pitch/theme last year when this came up. We’re losing tourism money because well well but but our neighbors do it and people are flocking away becuase they can only fish one line. I hate that argument frankly but whatever I guess.

    Although there more than likely will be a fee/stamp which may or may not go into your favorite GENERAL fund. Hopefully it’s a stamp and the DNR does get the money versus the politicians.”lesser of 2 evils IMO”

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