Minnesota flathead/catfish question

  • shawnil
    Posts: 467
    #1220856

    Hi from south of the border (and east) in Illinois.

    I’d love to hear from anyone about how Minnesota’s catfish friendly DNR policies came about, and if there are any cat-and-release oriented groups fishing the Minnesota, Mississippi, and St. Croix rivers.

    Living in a state (IL) where there are essentially no limits on catfish taken from rivers, it’s refreshing to see actual regulations (1 fish over 24″ and no more than two flatheads) on catfish. I’m not against the idea of keeping small cats, especially channels, but it seems in many areas people have been slow to realize those top-end fish take a long time to replace.

    Shawn

    Brian Klawitter
    Keymaster
    Minnesota/Wisconsin Mississippi River
    Posts: 59992
    #661125

    Welcome Shawn!

    You just made me think for a moment…the guys that post reqularly in this forum are all catch and release guys…there might be a few that will take a smaller flathead now and again.

    I think there were some folks like Catdad and others that worked with the DNR sometime ago that helped the DNR along. Speculation on my part.

    We still have the commercial netting issue….but we’re working on that slowly but steadily.

    Been fishing cats for a while have you??

    Brian Klawitter
    Keymaster
    Minnesota/Wisconsin Mississippi River
    Posts: 59992
    #661127

    Shawn, this photo of yours look very much like the Pool 4 back channel.

    Was that the sight of a significant catch?

    outdoors4life
    Stillwater, MN
    Posts: 1500
    #661139

    I guess I should feel fortunate. Although I do believe that the limit is still pretty liberal. I really think one person could do some damage at times to the flathead population.

    There is always room for improvement!

    Aaron

    larry_haugh
    MN
    Posts: 1767
    #661148

    Quote:


    I guess I should feel fortunate. Although I do believe that the limit is still pretty liberal. I really think one person could do some damage at times to the flathead population.
    There is always room for improvement!

    Aaron


    I guess that depends on how they are being caught…. Snagging or Noodling would be the most damaging.
    Then it depends on whats being done with the fish after they are caught. Most serious Flathead fisherman are big CPR advocates.
    Every now and then an average fisherman gets lucky and lands a big one and takes home, not really understanding what they nave done, And it makes us all go Ohhhh. Even when they are within the rights of the laws stated.
    The guidelines in MN are here for a reason and as a result Minnesota has an outstanding fishery on many species that draws people and attention from around the country.

    The MN DNR regs are probably some of the more conservative in the nation. If your saying Liberal in terms of the catfish season always being open??? I might agree.
    Especially on the snagging of the Flats.

    Jack Naylor
    Apple Valley, MN
    Posts: 5668
    #661150

    ShawnIL,
    Welcome to IDA.

    for BK be the first Responder TO your FIRST post is NOT surprizing. HE IS Mr CAT MAN around these parts.

    BK, that pic sure looks like a particular Pool 3 backwater I’ve seen before….
    a 23 pounder if memory serves me…
    Jack..

    outdoors4life
    Stillwater, MN
    Posts: 1500
    #661153

    Quote:


    The MN DNR regs are probably some of the more conservative in the nation. If your saying Liberal in terms of the catfish season always being open??? I might agree.
    Especially on the snagging of the Flats.


    When I said liberal I mean by the number we can take. I do not see a huge problem with the season open year round. If the fish do not bite and ae snagged then acording to the regs the legal thing to do is release the fish being fowl hooked. I have seen so many nice cats taken out of the croix over the past couple years making me think more about the limits.

    I think by the voices we hear on this forum we get a false sense that catch and release is what every person (most) Practices.

    david_scott
    Twin Cities
    Posts: 2946
    #661190

    Shawn IL … Welcome to IDA!

    Your post was well thought out and well stated… I can see where you are coming from and why change it seems should happen in your area.

    I have no idea how our *slots* came into play with the catfish limits, but I am glad they are in place. Someone did some research and put a very reasonable limit into play here in MN. I wish I could tell you how it happened.

    Its very much a surprise to me that it was ever even considered for MN with catfish being one of the least targeted game fish until the very recent years.

    Obviously there is some debate over the limits in MN with the regular cat crowd. Most of us practice strict catch and release and keep a fish once in a blue moon to eat, usually channels. In fact, most of regulars here on IDA know each other online, and the same boat from time to time.

    The attitude towards the limits are going to vary across the state here. The northern 2/3 of the state there are no flatheads, so they are out of the picture. There is an imaginary line from the twin cities and south with the primary waterways being the Minnesota river which is a small river with a good population of flatheads, and the Mississippi River which is relatively small in the twin cities and often hard to fish… to the wider river basin of southern minnesota where catfishing is more common.

    The Minnesota River gets pounded in most all areas, while the Mississippi river in the cities doesnt see much pressure… on another note, once you get to p4 you have issues with people snagging and commercial netting of fish… I dont think there is a regulation everyone will like because the waterways here are very different. It seems the regulations were imposed for the areas that were getting heavy pressure… overall, everywhere will benefit from it.

    5 catfish, only 2 which may be flatheads, 1 fish over 24″ is a very reasonable regulation in my eyes.

    If someone wants to keep a decent size flathead, Thats their right, but they are not going to keep 2 big fish and be strait with the regs. Channel cats under 24″ fall into an eater category and I dont know of anywhere in the state with a channel shortage.

    If you want change in regulations in your area, somebody has to start somewhere and talk to the fishery department and try to pull some strings and see what you can learn. If your lucky maybe you can open some eyes.

    I am sure IL has a better overall catfish population than MN. What is right here may not be right there.

    Keep in mind on top of these relatively tight regs, we are only allowed to use 1 line on inland waters where those limits are set. Border waters we can use 2 lines and the limits are different.

    Ralph Wiggum
    Maple Grove, MN
    Posts: 11764
    #661208

    Quote:


    I think by the voices we hear on this forum we get a false sense that catch and release is what every person (most) Practices.


    I share that fear with you, Aaron.

    larry_haugh
    MN
    Posts: 1767
    #661224

    Quote:


    Quote:


    I think by the voices we hear on this forum we get a false sense that catch and release is what every person (most) Practices.


    I share that fear with you, Aaron.


    There is that factor Mates!
    I will be honest. Between the web sites, Contests, Leagues. and other groups that come together in the cat-fishing network that I am involved in, plus my time spent on the water.
    We hear of the majority of big fish being caught. We also hear the of big ones that are harvested though not always public.
    Yes there are a share that fly under the radar.
    But for the quantities of large fish that I hear and see about being released. I don’t feel the fear that I used to when I first was becoming oriented with CPR and Big Fish.

    Wiggs. Your avatar is a testament to CPR……… That fish was caught and released at least 3 times that can be confirmed and possibly more.
    I’ve had a few in my boat that have been caught multiple times and released.

    The conservation guidelines in the state of MN in my opinion are in line with other species. As Dave mentioned, a few years ago Catfish didn’t get a second thought and yet the guidelines were still in place.

    Education is the key….. When you see someone land a big cat go and talk to them. Ask them what they are going to do with the fish and why? Recommend that the fish be released if they look like they want to keep it.
    Its their right to do as they wish.
    And we do our part by educating.

    life1978
    Eau Claire , WI
    Posts: 2790
    #661452

    Fortunately most people I’ve met and talked with over the summer. Many of whom aren’t on this board or any for that matter. Catch their fish and let them go. Which is really good to see. The ones that burn me are when from time to time I walk along the river and see cats that have been caught and left on shore to rott like a rough fish.

    outdoors4life
    Stillwater, MN
    Posts: 1500
    #661585

    Quote:


    left on shore to rott like a rough fish.


    I disagree with any fish left to rot! I target “Rough fish more than anything blast to catch!!!

    shawnil
    Posts: 467
    #661632

    I’m not sure about IL having more catfish or not, but the thing is 10 years ago they really had no clue how many flatheads there were because of sampling methods that were used. ILDNR essentially on proposes limits on stocked catfish, which leaves river cats wide open for exploitation.

    I started fishing for catfish in the late ’70s. I don’t get out a whole lot, and didn’t really fish for flatheads until the last 5-6 years.

    And the picture BrianK linked is the Kaskaskia River in central IL (during very low water). I used to fish that area for channel cats with crappie hooks and minnows or dip worms. However, there is a big sumberged log in several feet of water near that cut-bank.

    Shawn

    Brian Klawitter
    Keymaster
    Minnesota/Wisconsin Mississippi River
    Posts: 59992
    #661643

    Quote:


    but the thing is 10 years ago they really had no clue how many flatheads there were because of sampling methods that were used. ILDNR essentially on proposes limits on stocked catfish, which leaves river cats wide open for exploitation.


    Can you expand on that Shawn? What were their methods?

    shawnil
    Posts: 467
    #661950

    Here’s some specifics from an old article I wrote based on discussions with Rob Maher who is ILDNR commercial fisheries chief (I talked with him in late 2003). When he talks about finding “large and robust individuals and lots of them” he is referencing hoop net studies on the Rock river around 2002. Local flathead guide Denny Halgren helped the DNR place nets in a travel route to over-wintering areas in the fall. The DNR aparrently extrapolated their findings resulting in an overly optimistic estimate of how many fish were present. This is because this was the primary wintering area in a very large stetch of river. At least that’s my understanding.

    (start)
    The DNR employs two sampling methods to assess catfish populations:

    • Electrofishing, which gives an account of “young of the year” and smaller cats. This allows the DNR to determine spawning success and overall population data.

    • Hoop Net sampling, which specific targets larger blue and flathead catfish to measure those populations.

    A few years ago (around 1999, I think), ILDNR used some hoop net sampling techniques to get a handle on the big cat populations. These efforts started with the Rock River, and the same techniques are have been expanded to other large rivers in the state. Trophy catfish population data before implementing techniques to specifically study big cats was sketchy, and often based on anecdotal accounts from fishermen. As Maher explains, “Were really just now starting to come to grips with these big fish. They’re a difficult fish to sample; it’s taken us several years to even figure out how to collect a meaningful number of fish. Were still at the early stages of this catfish management. But, everything we’ve seen is very promising. It’s very impressive the quality and health of the fish – large robust individuals and lots of them.” There was data on Mississippi trophy catfish populations, due to a long-term resource monitoring effort in place there. But, other than that the DNR did not really have a concentrated effort to measure big cats prior to their efforts, which started on the Rock River.

    A variety of sampling is used on small streams. The DNR performs “Basin Surveys” working intensively in a specific river basin on a 5 year rotation. They use mainly electrofishing, although there are some netting efforts are going on. Sampling efforts are focused basin by basin on this rotation to be able to collect meaningful data. With the increasing popularity of catfishing, they’re taking techniques developed on big rivers and using on some of the smaller streams with success. Maher confirms that they are in the early sages of assessing all of the interior stream catfish populations. “We have been electrofishing some of the basins for around 15 years, so we’ve got a reasonable handle. We see very good populations on the interior waters also.” This rotation accounts to why annual ILDNR Catfish Status reports don’t always mention smaller streams – the data is generally reported when it is current.

    The 5 year rotation reflects ILDNR manpower limitations. They are covering around 6,000 miles of interior streams containing catfish with only 10 Streams Biologists. In addition, there are a few vacant posts currently in the northeast portion of the state. This leaves the DNR spread thin with only two biologists to cover this area, which receives especially heavy fishing pressure. (end)

    There was more, but that gives you some flavor of the discussion. Another interesting item is the ILDNR 2007 Catfish Status report, which manages the complete omission of what’s happening with catfish populations on the Fox, Mississippi, Kankakee, Wabash, and Ohio rivers just to name a few. These rivers are some of our more popular fishing areas, close to major population centers like Chicago, St Louis, Quad Cities, etc.

    http://dnr.state.il.us/fish/07/07%20CATFISH%20STATUS%20REPORT.pdf

    Sorry for the long rant…it seems catfishery management is a much higher priority in Iowa, Missouri, and Minnesota.

    Shawn

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