Clarification/Update on Bullhead and Castnet laws

  • larry_haugh
    MN
    Posts: 1767
    #1220611

    Hey Mates,
    After exchanging a couple emails with Officer Thor Nelson he did some more thorough research and came up with some definitive answers to Cast Nets and Bullheads with some details on the statues and ordinances.
    Listed below is Officers Nelsons response that was sent in a recent email.

    Mr. Haugh,

    It was good to meet you on the River as well! I’m sorry I haven’t replied until
    now. It has been a very busy week for all of us from the Enforcement Division
    of the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources. We completed the hosting of a
    week long training conference in St. Paul in which 300-400 Conservation Officers
    from all over the US and Canada were in attendance. It was a monumental task in
    which we were all involved. This is the first time the conference has been held
    in Minnesota since it’s inception in the 1980’s and it probably won’t return to
    Minnesota for 30 years or more.

    I have researched the cast netting issue more thoroughly through the Department
    of Natural Resources’ Legal Analyst and also through the Fisheries Program
    Coordinator. I made an error when I replied to PierBridge’s email some time ago
    in when I told him that it was legal to collect baitfish with cast nets. It is
    NOT LEGAL to use cast nets. I was hoping that you would help me rectify my
    error by placing the following information on the IDA board so that we can put
    the topic to rest with a definitive answer:

    Dear IDA staff and visitors,

    I want to thank you for the positive feedback you have given me. I wish to do
    the best job that I am able to in regards to protecting Minnesota’s natural
    resources by enforcing the laws while taking the time to educate and answer
    questions along the way. I am human and do make mistakes however. You must
    realize that I am responsible for enforcing the regulations for fishing,
    hunting, boating, ATVs, snowmobiles, off-highway motorcycles, off-road vehicles,
    wetlands, public waters alterations, fires, pollution, state parks and more.
    That is a wealth of material! I hastily answered an email from PierBridge a
    while ago in which I told him that using cast nets to take baitfish and rough
    fish (after May 1st) was legal. I have done more research and found that I
    passed on some incorrect information. The use of cast nets is NOT LEGAL. I
    regret the mixed answers that some of you have been getting from different
    sources within the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources. Cast netting is
    very common in the southern states and especially off-shore but it isn’t a
    common practice in Minnesota, like seining and minnow trapping are. I apologize
    for my error and on behalf of my Department for the differing information you
    have received and I will take you through the laws and logic involving cast
    nets. I will also give you some information on the bullheads as bait concerns
    you have and at the end, I have listed the email address and telephone number of
    Roy Johannes, the Fisheries Program Coordinator with the Minnesota Department of
    Natural Resources. Mr. Johannes is a wonderful resource and he welcomes any
    questions you may have.

    The State of Minnesota has established a search engine for statutes and
    permanent rules that may be used if any of you so desire. It is located at
    http://www.leg.state.mn.us/leg/statutes.asp The following passages are copied
    and pasted from that webpage and they include Minnesota Statutes and Minnesota
    Rules that govern the use of nets and traps for the taking of baitfish:

    97C.345 RESTRICTIONS ON USE AND POSSESSION OF NETS AND SPEARS.
    Subdivision 1. Period when use prohibited. Except as specifically
    authorized, a person may
    not take fish from the third Monday in February to April 30 with a spear, fish
    trap, net, dip net,
    seine, or other device capable of taking fish.
    Subd. 2. Possession. (a) Except as specifically authorized, a person may not
    possess a
    spear, fish trap, net, dip net, seine, or other device capable of taking fish on
    or near any waters.
    Possession includes personal possession and in a vehicle.
    (b) A person may possess spears, dip nets, bows and arrows, and spear guns
    allowed under
    section 97C.381 on or near waters between sunrise and sunset from May 1 to the
    last Sunday
    in February, or as otherwise prescribed by the commissioner.
    Subd. 3. Dip nets. A person may possess and use a dip net between one hour
    before sunrise
    and one hour after sunset from May 1 to the third Sunday in February.
    Subd. 4. Exceptions. Subdivisions 1 to 3 do not apply to:
    (1) nets used to take rainbow smelt during the open season;
    (2) nets used to land game fish taken by angling;
    (3) seines or traps used for the taking of minnows for bait;
    (4) nets, seines, or traps possessed and used under an aquatic farm license; and
    (5) angling equipment.
    Subd. 5. Rules. The commissioner may adopt rules to regulate the use of nets
    to take fish.

    97C.511 MINNOW SEINES.
    Subdivision 1. Size restrictions. Except as provided in subdivision 2, a
    person may not take
    minnows with a seine longer than 25 feet, and deeper than:
    (1) 148 meshes of 1/4 inch bar measure;
    (2) 197 meshes of 3/16 inch bar measure; or
    (3) four feet of material of less than 3/16 inch bar measure.
    Subd. 2. Licensed minnow dealers. A minnow dealer may take minnows with a
    seine that is
    not longer than 50 feet, and not deeper than:
    (1) 222 meshes of 1/4 inch bar measure;
    (2) 296 meshes of 3/16 inch bar measure; or
    (3) six feet of material of less than 3/16 inch bar measure.

    6254.0500 DEFINITIONS, EXEMPTIONS, AND IDENTIFICATION
    REQUIREMENTS FOR TAKING MINNOWS IN TRAPS AND NETS.
    Subp. 2. Definitions.

    A. A “minnow trap” is any device, other than a hoop
    net or trap net, used for the capture of minnows or leeches.

    6254.0100 PERMITTED ACTIVITIES FOR TAKING MINNOWS.
    Subp. 3. Minnow trap specifications for persons not
    licensed as minnow dealers.

    A. A person not licensed as a minnow dealer may use
    minnow traps not exceeding 30 inches in width or length or 15
    inches in height. The diameter or width of the opening must not
    exceed 1-1/2 inches and mesh size may not exceed one-half inch
    bar mesh.

    B. A person not licensed as a minnow dealer may not
    use minnow traps with leads.

    Please notice the “Exceptions” that are listed in 97C.345 Subdivision 4. These
    are the activities that ARE PERMITTED. Cast nets are not listed there, only
    seines and traps so cast nets are not permitted. I have included the
    definitions of “minnow seine” (97C.511 above) and the definition of a “minnow
    trap” 6254.0500 Subpart 2, Paragraph A. In addition, cast nets do not fit the
    size requirements of a seine because they are too large as you can see above.
    The closest definition to a cast net as provided in statute and rule is a minnow
    trap, however minnow traps may not exceed 30 inches in length or 15 inches in
    height except by people operating under a commercial license. These dimensions
    won’t accommodate even the smallest of cast nets either. A few of you have
    asked what the point is of these regulations. I understand that the size
    requirements are in place to protect the walleye and other gamefish that are
    palagic (surface feeding) as juveniles. These juvenile gamefish are very
    susceptible to being netted until they are approximately 3 inches in length when
    they begin to move out of the upper water columns, where cast nets work best.

    On to the bullheads. Currently bullheads can be used as bait if they are not
    over 7 inches in length. The reason for the 7 inch size limit, historically,
    was because they were common incidental catches in commercial minnow netting and
    trapping operations. The Department of Natural Resources Division of Fisheries
    is currently working on a rule change that will allow the use of bullheads as
    bait if they are not over 10 inches in length. This rule change is being made
    because it is recognized that bullheads are an excellent channel and flathead
    catfish bait and the rule change will most likely be completed and included for
    the 2008 fishing season.

    Mr. Roy Johannes, the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources Program
    Coordinator welcomes your questions and he is available through email at
    [email protected] and is available by telephone at (651) 259-5213.

    Thor Nelson
    Conservation Officer
    Department of Natural Resources
    Division of Enforcement
    (952) 233-3587
    [email protected]

    dfresh
    Fridley, MN
    Posts: 3053
    #593897

    A very thorough answer that I will accept as definitive. Thanks for the leg work!

    Brian Klawitter
    Keymaster
    Minnesota/Wisconsin Mississippi River
    Posts: 59992
    #593904

    I call B.S.!

    Everyone knows that the DNR doesn’t hire humans!

    Thanks for taking the time to clarify Thor!
    ..and to Larry for following through!

    ggoody
    Mpls MN
    Posts: 2603
    #593909

    Thank you Larry and Thor Nelson keep up the great and demanding work you have been doing for us.

    Steve Root
    South St. Paul, MN
    Posts: 5623
    #593910

    Great job Officer Nelson. It took some work to put all of that together. Thanks!

    ggoody
    Mpls MN
    Posts: 2603
    #593917

    I was under the impresion that if I caught a Bullhead larger then 7″s in the body of water I was fishing in I could use it?
    I thought the 7″ Bullhead Law was only for transporting.
    Can someone clarify this?
    Thanks Pier.

    Brian Klawitter
    Keymaster
    Minnesota/Wisconsin Mississippi River
    Posts: 59992
    #593935

    That’s the way it was explained to us during our meeting with the Dept. heads.

    Mudshark
    LaCrosse WI
    Posts: 2973
    #593946

    A most excellent post……
    Thank you sir…..

    larry_haugh
    MN
    Posts: 1767
    #593956

    Quote:


    I was under the impresion that if I caught a Bullhead larger then 7″s in the body of water I was fishing in I could use it?
    I thought the 7″ Bullhead Law was only for transporting.
    Can someone clarify this?
    Thanks Pier.


    Pier,
    I take it as If its over 7inches it shouldn’t be on the hook or in the bait bucket, regardless of the body of water. Otherwise what would be the hubbub on the 10ich bullhead. I would email Officer Nelson your question if there is any doubt

    bret_clark
    Sparta, WI
    Posts: 9362
    #593962

    Way cool Larry

    And Thank you Thor for your time and awesome responce

    I’m even from the other side of the river
    OK Brian, I said river, not just the other side!

    rburns
    Wisconsin
    Posts: 284
    #593972

    Quote:


    Currently bullheads can be used as bait if they are not over 7 inches in length. The reason for the 7 inch size limit, historically, was because they were common incidental catches in commercial minnow netting and trapping operations.


    Does this mean that because so many small bullheads were being caught in minnow nets that they just considered a small bullhead a minnow to make things easier for the people running the nets?

    That seems odd for a MN lawmaking process.

    Whay can’t WI do that?

    david_scott
    Twin Cities
    Posts: 2946
    #594029

    Well… what can I say? That Sucks!

    There goes the future legal shad supply!

    aanderud
    Posts: 221
    #594050

    Quote:


    Quote:


    I was under the impresion that if I caught a Bullhead larger then 7″s in the body of water I was fishing in I could use it?
    I thought the 7″ Bullhead Law was only for transporting.
    Can someone clarify this?
    Thanks Pier.


    Pier,
    I take it as If its over 7inches it shouldn’t be on the hook or in the bait bucket, regardless of the body of water. Otherwise what would be the hubbub on the 10ich bullhead. I would email Officer Nelson your question if there is any doubt


    The hubbub would be to make it legal to transport these 10 inchers from wherever you catch bait to your bait tank at home and then to wherever you plan to fish at a later time. Under the current regs, all of that is illegal. However, catching and using it on the same body of water should be legal as long as there’s no ‘transporting’ involved. Right?

    Hunting4Walleyes
    MN
    Posts: 1552
    #594052

    I am glad we have Thor in the south metro. It is very refreshing to see someone go the extra mile to educate the masses. Maybe IDA could talk to Thor and any other CO out there and have a weekly tip on here. They could educate thousands of people on here. Just a thought.

    ggoody
    Mpls MN
    Posts: 2603
    #594060

    Quote:


    Quote:



    The hubbub would be to make it legal to transport these 10 inchers from wherever you catch bait to your bait tank at home and then to wherever you plan to fish at a later time. Under the current regs, all of that is illegal. However, catching and using it on the same body of water should be legal as long as there’s no ‘transporting’ involved. Right?


    Thats how I interpret it also aanderud.

    Anybody else?……

    chris-tuckner
    Hastings/Isle MN
    Posts: 12318
    #594068

    Great job Larry, and thanks a ton Thor!
    That is going the extra mile!

    larry_haugh
    MN
    Posts: 1767
    #594072

    Bullheads 7 inches and under is what is legal at this time. Transporting is not at discussion. That is why they are looking at passing the rule for 10inch bullies hopefully in the near future.

    ggoody
    Mpls MN
    Posts: 2603
    #594098

    Quote:


    I was under the impresion that if I caught a Bullhead larger then 7″s in the body of water I was fishing in I could use it?

    I thought the 7″ Bullhead Law was only for transporting.


    Quote:


    That’s the way it was explained to us during our meeting with the Dept. heads.


    Maybe the DNR department heads are confused on this.

    Next question: Is there a length limit on Suckers?

    flatheadwi
    La Crosse, WI
    Posts: 578
    #594128

    Thanks for the work. Now can you ask him to clarify the purpose of this statute, specifically the inclusion of catfish:

    97C.041 COMMISSIONER MAY REMOVE ROUGH FISH AND CATFISH.
    The commissioner may take rough fish, lake whitefish, and rainbow smelt with seines, nets, and other devices. The commissioner may also take catfish with seines, nets, and other devices on the Minnesota-Wisconsin boundary waters. The commissioner may hire or contract persons, or issue permits, to take the fish. The commissioner shall prescribe the manner of taking and disposal. The commissioner may award a contract under this section without competitive bidding. Before establishing the contractor’s compensation, the commissioner must consider the qualifications of the contractor, including the contractor’s equipment, knowledge of the waters,
    and ability to perform the work.

    About 16,000 pounds of flathead catfish are removed each year on MN/WI boundary waters. The people that do it are taking each and every fish that lands within their nets, regardless of size. This happens every year – the fish are taken when they are congregated in wintering holes. On “my” pool, roughly 1000 pounds a year are lost – this equates to somewhere around 80 fish per year, including MANY trophy class fish for which there is NO justifiable use – these fish should not be consumed due to mercury accumulation.

    I wouldn’t mind knowing why this is permitted – these are not nuisance exotics removed for the health of the fishery.

    mplspug
    Palmetto, Florida
    Posts: 25026
    #594202

    I think to make things easier we should just outlaw live-bait all together.

    larry_haugh
    MN
    Posts: 1767
    #594301

    Quote:


    Next question: Is there a length limit on Suckers?


    Bait shops and dealers won’t sell illegal stuff Pier, thats all we have to worry about.

    Pier, Do you fish with them?

    Brian Klawitter
    Keymaster
    Minnesota/Wisconsin Mississippi River
    Posts: 59992
    #594327

    Sorry guys…I read the question wrong…

    We (in MN) can use larger than 7 in bullies as long as they are not transported (and are caught on the same body of water).

    Once a bullhead reaches 7+ inches it’s goes into the 100 bully limit and can not be transported…alive. Just like sunfish, walleye and the rest.

    FlatheadWI…I’m with you man!

    ggoody
    Mpls MN
    Posts: 2603
    #594352

    Thanks Brian.

    larry_haugh
    MN
    Posts: 1767
    #594367

    Quote:


    Sorry guys…I read the question wrong…

    We (in MN) can use larger than 7 in bullies as long as they are not transported (and are caught on the same body of water).
    Once a bullhead reaches 7+ inches it’s goes into the 100 bully limit and can not be transported…alive. Just like sunfish, walleye and the rest.

    FlatheadWI…I’m with you man!


    We can use them as Food………. Ummmm Bullhead….. Just not as bait if they are over 7 inches even if its from the same body of water. Why would CO’s take the time to measure?!?!? Really… officer we caught them right up the river, as I always do.

    To many sources saying 7 inches or less to take a chance getting caught up in that tangle on the water.
    Its confusing enough, with out having to read in between. Shame shame.

    david_scott
    Twin Cities
    Posts: 2946
    #594368

    I believe suckers are legal up to 12″ for bait.

    Larger ones are sold at bait shops from time to time which are *decoys*.. or meant to be used without a hook in them for luring fish to spear.

    I used to believe there was no length limit on suckers, but someone convinced me otherwise in the years past.

    mplspug
    Palmetto, Florida
    Posts: 25026
    #594414

    Larry, bullhead is delicious. Just a pain skinning enough for a meal. I vote we make that the end of the year meal. You know, eat the bait we have left over out of respect to the cats.

    Mudshark
    LaCrosse WI
    Posts: 2973
    #594419

    mmmmmmmmm….bullheads… deep fried……I’ll vote for that

    larry_haugh
    MN
    Posts: 1767
    #594440

    Quote:


    Larry, bullhead is delicious. Just a pain skinning enough for a meal. I vote we make that the end of the year meal. You know, eat the bait we have left over out of respect to the cats.


    Like I’ve always said, I will not ask anyone or anything to do what I would not be willing to do myself. If I ask Flats to eat bullies…………….. Well I guess I will just have to bully up myself….. I’ll join.

    flatheadwi
    La Crosse, WI
    Posts: 578
    #595449

    Quote:


    Sorry guys…I read the question wrong…

    We (in MN) can use larger than 7 in bullies as long as they are not transported (and are caught on the same body of water).
    Once a bullhead reaches 7+ inches it’s goes into the 100 bully limit and can not be transported…alive. Just like sunfish, walleye and the rest.

    FlatheadWI…I’m with you man!


    Now Brian, not to open up another can of worms, but if you can use a bullhead larger than 7″ in the same place you caught it, and that bullhead is part of your 100 bullhead limit, how are bluegills different? Meaning – and I dare you to try this – why couldn’t you also use a bluegill that is part of your legal bluegill limit as long as you used it in the same place you caught it?

    Brian Klawitter
    Keymaster
    Minnesota/Wisconsin Mississippi River
    Posts: 59992
    #595726

    Certainly makes sense to me…I wouldn’t ask that question to the DNR for two reasons.

    1) I don’t want to screw up the 10 rule before we actually have it.

    2) In talking with the DNR two years ago…they weren’t interested in using “game” fish as bait. Period, end of discussion. They felt that was “a line we don’t want to cross.”

    I guess I have a third reason too. Not ever having used gills, I don’t know if they work better or worse than a bully. I enjoy catching gills for the frying pan but don’t have the time for catching them for bait.

    Someone else can champion that cause.

    My time and energy will be more focused on MN/WI commercial fishing of cats and having a closed winter season along with opening a catch and release season on the sippi for Lake Sturgeon.

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