34 to 40 inch protected slot?

I am a member of a group working with the DNR to change some regs to help manage the flathead population. We have HEAVY harvest rates in my area.

Anyway, we are hoping to get a 1 fish daily bag limit and a 2 fish possession limit passed. A harvest season from either May 20th or July 1st to October 1st, lots of arguing about the dates.

And we are working on a protected slot, 34-40 inches has been suggested and I’ve been asked to comment on it. What do you guys think? I don’t measure many flatheads, a 6 inch spread seems a little small if you are trying to reduce harvest rates. Or is 34-40 inches a sweet spot that a lot of the caught fish are in?

Kudo’s to you RB!

I hate to keep referring back to the musky guys, but like it or not they have done a fabulous job of educating and enforcing. Are they a bit overboard…..at times yes, but you can’t argue with the fishery they have created. A lot comes down to $$$ and where it is going. Currently the cat guys are WAY outmanned by the musky $.

Anyways, what I’m getting at is I’m in favor of 1 over X” allowed. We’ve done it with the musky, we’ve done it with the Sturgeon, why not the other major league fish in the state?

A protected slot is a good start though and hats off to you for persuing it. If I can help at all please let me know.

As far as numbers, I like to see that top end bumped up to 42 or 44″

34″ to 40″ is a pretty big flathead. I caught a 33″ fish a few years back that weighed in at 25 Lbs and I had a 32 Lb fish that I never got a length measurement on. I would imagine that it is the 34″ to 40″ fish that the DNR is looking at being the best egg producers??????? I know here in Iowa the DNR established the 20″ to 27″ protected slot on walleyes based on the fact that this is the size of the best egg producing fish.

I don’t do any specific flathead fishing but pick them up occasionally while fishing for walleye. I do keep a few every year as I think flathead is about as good as it gets for table fare. I’m sorry to hear that you have flathead population problems in your area. The numbers seem to be about normal here on the Mississippi at Dubuque but I’m only basing that on the number of fish I’ve boated so far this year. I think I’ve caught 3 or 4 flatheads keeping only one so far about 5 Lbs for the table.

In any case protected slot limits really do work. I know the number of walleye I catch over 20″ every year since the beginning of the protected slot limit has increased significantly every year. This is the 4th year for the slot and there are real good numbers of 20″ to 27″ fish in the river. I haven’t noticed an increase yet in the number of young walleye that the protected breeders are supposed to be producing but I would imagine they are out there.

Rich, are those suggested slot sizes based on anything?

I applaud you and the rest of your team for acting on this…but I think the other villin is the commercial fisherman. Not to muddy the water, but is the DNR looking at them too?

I’m guessing this is for the border waters only…

I’m in favor of 5 cat limit, combined channels or flats…only two being flathead and only 1 being over 24.

This should help the Trophy channel population too.

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I’m in favor of 5 cat limit, combined channels or flats…only two being flathead and only 1 being over 24.

This should help the Trophy channel population too.

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I agree 110% on the stated limit which happens to be the inland waters MN catfish regulation(about the only thing I agree with from MN regs). The possession limit is the SAME as the daily limit. This law does a very good job of protecting against overharvest of mature fish from BOTH species. The proposed mid size slot limit I honestly think would be pretty useless besides to protect a few spawners depending on how strong the year classes of fish are within that protected slot. I suspect some thought was put into that slot and probably came up from a desirable size anglers like to catch.. or the size the fish become desireable.. 15#-30# fish a rough estimate? By protecting those fish, theoreticly the catch rate should improve on that size fish… in theory only. I would rather see the harvest cut down drasticly across the board(1 over 24″) which would increase the number of fish in ALL sizes, not just mid size fish.

I also like our season.. continuous.. A large percentage of flathead fishermen overall are catch and release fishermen, I would be in tears if I couldnt target them until July, I would be fine with the beginning of May when an actual season opened(if a season existed) because at that time is when the fish generally start taking baits.. or *fair chase*. A closed season from Sometime in October to sometime in April would save a lot of fish from being snagged and harvested in troubled areas and might be a good option if those troubled areas would be involved in the proposed season.

Here is some more info:

This would be for the Winnebago system in WI. The Wolf River, the Fox River and the big lakes in between.

The leading “theory” is that overharvest via setline is the biggest problem. Local tradition is to keep the bigger fish. Some guys want to maximize the pounds of meat they can get from their 10 fish possession limit, others follow some ignorant wive’s tales about the bigger fish not having viable eggs and are going to die soon anyway.

There is an noticeable void in the population of fish over 30#.

The goals of the committee are to reduce harvest, increase the number of 30+ pound fish and keep some of the old fishing traditions alive.

I think the 34-40 inch slot is designed to protect the 25-35 pound fish while allowing you to keep a trophy. Remember this would go along with a 1 fish bag limit, I might suggest 30-44 inches as a more aggressive rule.

The July 1st to October 1st season would only really be for setlines in the water and for the harvest of flatheads. The DNR made it clear they would not ticket CPR hook and line anglers for targeting flatheads outside of the season.

There is a well known wintering hole in my area where icefisherman legally “catch” many many flatheads each winter. The season should put and end to that also.

I guess what I am asking you guys is, Is a 40″ flathead a “trophy”? Should I suggest 44″? And is a 33″ big enough to be a quality “eater” if you only get to keep one per day? Is 33″ too big? Should I suggest 30″?

RB,

Good topic. I haven’t fished those much but I know on pool 9 the commercial guys net lots of big ones. I’ve seen 3 40 plus fish come from one net. My biggest there was only call it 40lbs even. The bigger ones are much harder to come by. I blame the commercial guys but hey its a living. I think there should be a slot you can keep a couple but all big ones should be let go. They are too full of pollution to safely eat anyway. I have never heard of anyone doing a mount other than one funky head mount I saw once. my 2 cents. Some of the old traditions were based on starving people. Things have changed unless you have a thousand crappies in your freezer.

I think the size limits should reflect public health concerns as well – no fish over a certain size. I think the slot would make those few fish above the slot targets and they would invariably get kept. Pulling every fish over 40″ out of the system would ruin it for me – as a sportfish it’s the thought of 48+” fish that gets me going. But even if sportfishing isn’t your primary goal – eating those fish over 40″ isn’t good for you and there isn’t any other reason to keep them.

30 inches would put you in that 15 pound range, which provides a ton of meat for one fish and carries hundreds of times less contaminants than the big boys. One per day is plenty

RB IS my hero. I have to point out that one important thing of making the limit one per day is fine but the real winner is a possession limit of two. I don’t know that possession limits get checked that often but in theory we comply with them, even if we do so just to make us all feel good inside. With that said, possession limits become unreasonably huge when you keep your limit and your kid’s and your wife’s and give some to grandma and have a fish fry for the neighbors. It might not be perfectly ethical but it happens and it is even easy to rationalize to oneself.

The tradition thing sucks to argue against bigtime. But I guess one could argue that it is traditional to mount a punt gun on your boat and sell ducks for a living too and those days are long gone.

I didn’t know setlines where that popular up there. They are by me. People will go set out poles and then get some beer and a snoopy reel to pass the time. They have been endoctrinated into running a trapline because it is what they grew up with, all because people were doing it in the first place therefore making fish harder to catch which makes the setline a better etc etc etc.

I think the WIS regs are pretty good due to the part where you have to check your poles in person and can’t check them after dark.

I’ve argued with other people about this stuff but you guys are basically the choir and while we don’t argue, we probably can all agree that we don’t want the bankline/setline guy with a big empty freezer fishing our home waters. How far do you want to drive?

To answer your “trophy” question. I think 40″ could be determined a trophy. A MN master angler is 33″ which I think is a joke.

Even if 40″ is a trophy, who want to keep a Flathead trophy? You can’t mount them…..well you can try. I think I’ve seen Dark30 try a couple of times

It wasn’t very long ago that fish up to 150 lbs were being caught. Overharvest happened once, let’s not let it happen again.
Put that in your pipe…..

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To answer your “trophy” question. I think 40″ could be determined a trophy. A MN master angler is 33″ which I think is a joke.

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I concur.
To add…the Infisherman 2007 master angler guideline for catch and release recognition the size needs to be over 42″.

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To add…the Infisherman 2007 master angler guideline for catch and release recognition the size needs to be over 42″.

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I’m on board with this one. 42″ is a good number I think for the upper end, that would be a mid to upper 30lb cat, even low 40 lb on some girthy fish. It would be pretty easy to argue a case for 42″ as In-Fisherman has established 42″ as the mark of a trophy. The other marks for Master Angler fish are pretty restrictive as well so I feel they are right on the money with establishing 42″ for a Master Angler flathead.

I didn’t realize this with MN Catfish regulations but the 2 flathead restriction was changed from 5 back in 2003. Definitely a proactive move made by the MN DNR.

Not sure how clear my other post made it, but I don’t like the existence of an upper end at all. Just means people will feel almost compelled to keep them over that upper limit. Best to have a limit of one fish under 30″, period.

Not that this will add anything to this post…

But if I were King, Flatheads would be only CPR.

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I guess what I am asking you guys is, Is a 40″ flathead a “trophy”? Should I suggest 44″? And is a 33″ big enough to be a quality “eater” if you only get to keep one per day? Is 33″ too big? Should I suggest 30″?

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In all honesty, I think 33″ is pretty fair for a “eater”.. at that length the fish are developed and actually have some meat.. getting much below 30″ leaves nothing but a couple fish sticks.

40″ or 44″ being true trophy class? I guess that is in the eyes of the angler.. us seasoned veterans in many areas dont even bother breaking ou the camera until a fish is 30#, and dont really get excited until a fish is over 40#…. BUT … a 30# fish to sme might be amongst the largest fish they catch or see in a lifetime, so I would say a trophy class fish is in the eyes of the angler. Taking into consideration of what others have said with health concerns, and the simple fact these fish are not taxidermy friendly… what is the point of being able to harvest these large fish unless they are record, or true fish of a lifetime potential? A 44″ fish can be 40#, and it could be low/mid 50’s depending on the girth…

I suggest the tightest regulations possible to let the fishery repair itself over time, including outlawing the set lines. I understand thy are trying to keep a level of tradition.. but that tradition is what is making the need for excess regulation now.

“Tradition” = promotion of 50’s style angling/harvest ethics

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Not sure how clear my other post made it, but I don’t like the existence of an upper end at all. Just means people will feel almost compelled to keep them over that upper limit. Best to have a limit of one fish under 30″, period.

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Reading you loud and clear and totally agree.

How often do you guys actually see people keeping the bigger fish?

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getting much below 30″ leaves nothing but a couple fish sticks.

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I keep about three fish per year, all in about the ten pound range, or about 27-28″. They provide in one fish as much meat as a limit of crappies or bluegills. If you’re talking “fish sticks” you must be throwing away the belly meat, which in flatheads is the best part and accounts for about half of the meat ~ very solid muscle. A 33″ fish is somewhere around 20 pounds and has reached a size class that is far more rare in the river, and has incredible potential for reaching the upper tiers (and has lived and built up contaminants as a predator for several more years than the ten pounders).

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How often do you guys actually see people keeping the bigger fish?

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Never. But it’s the people we don’t see that has us worried.

Many of the setline anglers at our committee meetings freely admit to keeping only the bigger fish, over 30#, until they get their 10 fish possession limit. They let the little ones go.

Anyway, I had a long talk with one of the biologists today and they are pretty disappointed with the lack of input from the rod and reel crowd. So any of you guys in WI, or who have friends or relatives in WI and care about the Winnebago system, or even if you are from MN and would like to vouch for the more conservative rules you guys have, please send an email to Al at [email protected]

It can just be small note saying you support further protection on the flathead population or you can ask him for details about the study and the proposed rule changes.

He is just looking to hear some more voices (besides the vocal setline minority) as they are in the process of writing possible rule changes.

Done

Just sent off a note of my own – if they can succeed in making a difference on that system, we will surely benefit down the road on this side of the state…

Rob…I’ll get one off tonight…even though I’m from MN…can’t hurt.

Thanks Bobk
My name is Rich.

Seriously, thanks. Any input supporting “our side” is welcome.

Message sent.

I’ll put in my 2cents. Here in Nebraska your limit is 4 a day. I have set my personal limit at 12#, anything over goes back unharmed ’cause I use circle hooks and get ‘um back in the water ASAP (normally less than 60 seconds). I’ve only taught a couple people outside my immediate family my “system”. I made the mistake of teaching one guy who keeps ALL, whether 5# or 50#. I’m still kicking myself in the *** for that….Yet he’ll be the guy scratching his head 10 years from now wondering where did all the big flatheads go??!! Over 10-12# LET THEM GO, GUYS AND GALS,PLEASE I’m beggin’ ya..

I’m new to fishing Flatheads…and i’d never consider keeping a big fish. For one, it seems like it’d be a pain in the a$$ to clean one. I hate cleaning fish!!

Plus, maybe were doing something wrong, but we’ve been catching plenty of fish in the 7-10lb range. Been tempted to keep a few of those now and then, but haven’t yet. Plenty of small channel cats around for the pot I guess.

I couldn’t imagine keeping and having to deal with a 40lb fish. I imagine there are plenty of guys out there that have a small need to put meat in the freezer.

One thing I do see in pics posted on various websites…are bleeding Flatheads. In my opinion, releasing a bleeding fish of any size is foolish. I do not believe all fish released survive, and those injured have less of a chance. I think having the option to keep a large bleeding fish should be there…ALWAYS!

What sense does it make to “release” a fish that has a poor chance of survival…compared to taking it home and feeding something other than turtles?

Bullet – if you’ve looked into the mouth of a 40 pound flathead, you’ll see that everything is bigger there. I once hooked one by the flesh on the front of one of the gill arches. It bled out the gill plate from that hole, but the whole structure of the gills was intact.

On a normal sized fish, bleeding in the gills usually equates with some serious damage in there – arches broken, gill filaments torn and mangled.

This fish had a little hole in a big part, and the bleeding was slow or stopped by the time he went back in.

Obviously people shouldn’t release fish that are going to die for sure, but fish are different, and when to make that call is pretty case by case.

If I did keep that one, it wouldn’t have found its way onto the table anyway, so better to let it have a chance and at worst feed turtles than end up feeding maggots.

If I had to keep one that was bleeding, I would certainly eat it…I wasn’t implying otherwise.

But, there’s no accurate way of predicting whether an injured fish will live long after it’s been put back.

I just don’t agree with not having the option to keep one that would be mortally(obvious)wounded…especially because of a slot limit. Like MN, the rules really should allow one to be taken of any size…for this reason alone. To me thats fair I guess.

People that are routinely keeping larger fish, if burdoned with a slot or max length regulation will probably still find a way to keep them.

Another myth the DNR biologists had to dispel at the meetings was the thought that “the big ones are going to die soon anyway” or that “badly hooked fish hung on a setline all night are going to die anyway”.

Over the 5 year study more than 1400 live flatheads were donated by setline anglers. All these fish were tagged and released. Some with radio transmitters. Many, many, many of these fish have been caught again, several times. Even the 50 pounders. The biologists were pleasantly surprised to learn how hardy these fish are after being caught.

The fact is that these fish have the potential to be caught and safely released many times over their long lifetimes. They have the potential to bring a lot of joy to a lot of anglers, if they are just given the chance to live.

Again if anybody at all wants to drop a small email voting for “our side”, send your thoughts to [email protected] as they are currently in the process of writing possible rule changes. Even if you are nowhere near the Winnebago system, a trend of flathead conservation throughout the midwest can benefit all of us.