Setting the Hook, Big Baits

  • david_scott
    Twin Cities
    Posts: 2946
    #1220574

    I have been noticing a lot of hype on the internet with the growing popularity of catfishing. I started this post to express my views and expriences, and to see how other anglers experience compares.

    “When to set the hook” is an age old question that I have been asked countless times, and its a difficult question to answer properly, and how to set the hook can be equaly as difficult.

    When: This is like a trick question I do not like to answer… I almost depend on a *6th sense* and when it “feels right”, I make an attempt to put the hook home. Some nights we cant do anything wrong because the fish are feedng aggressively and putting the bait down, other night the fish are hitting in strange ways, or alternate species are rabbing the bait that are very difficult to hook(channel cat hiting large bully). Our hookup ratio might be 100% one night, and 0% the next.

    Bites I like… When the Flatheads give the traditional *chomp*, and hold a slight load on the rod for a short period of time.. sometimes you can see/feel the fish continue to chomp. Soon after, the fish slowly starts to swim away with the bait.. rarely do these fish avoid getting a hook in them regardelss of size.

    *Side-sweeping bites* .. these are the bites where we often see the chomp, then we see our tip jumping in a strange way that slightly resembles a struggling bait if you are not paying attention. The tip is bouncing from the weight skipping across the bottom… sometimes these fish are coming towards you also. “Most of the time” these are also high percentage hookups because we spend longer than normal determining 100% that is a fish on the end of the line, and not our bait… the fish has consumed the bait before we set the hook. The most important thing to remember is to be positive the line is tight and you arefeeling the weight of the fish(dont set on a slack line!).

    The last of the “good bites”.. when the fish smack it, and just sit there and eat it, most often they will hold a slight load to the rod… for some reason when a fish is on the end of the line not doing anything.. we dont do anything either for a short period of time. A flathead only takes an instant to put down a good size bait, 10 seconds can be an eternity.

    The Frustrating bites… Lowest hookup percentage.. The fish that smack the bait like a freight train and run.. and run and run. Often these are channel cats, but flatheads will test our nerves by doing this in some locations regularly. More often than not when a clicker is screaming, we are going to come back ith a beat up bait, or no bait at all. When the hook does go in, many times these fish are lost. Maybe these fish are getting slightly hooked on the strike and not liking it, maybe they are ultra aggressive.. I honeslty have no idea, but I guarantee we will all have these hits occasionaly. I have found no consistant way to hook those fish, I nearly always let them run in hopes they stop sometime soon to eat it… usually I am left crossing my fingers that the hook finds something when I engauge the reel.

    The other frustrating… the fish hit and come right at you leaving you catching up with slack.. it only makes sense to me the least likely way to get a hook into a fish is pulling the hook strait out of the mouth.

    When to set the hook? Thats a tough question. One wise phrase I heard from Brian K in the past is “Fish Dont have Hands”.. or translated, if you feel a fish on the other end of the line, it has your bait in its mouth. The feeding mood, or aggression of the fish that given evening is also a big factor.. if the fish are there to eat, usually the time to set the hook is as quick as you get it out of the rod holder and the line is tight. Other days when the fish are being finicky, and dont seem to want to eat the bait they just grabbed, a short delay might greatly increase your hookup percentage. The feeding actions/mood are often determined by previous missed runs, or an irratic run in progress.

    So Now…. I am all psyched because a submarine has my bullhead in its mouth and I need to set the hook… How should I set the hook?

    #1, make sure the line is tight, and has at least slight load. Its best to let the fish start pulling away to create this non-disputable direct connection between your rod and the fish, if the fish isnt moving away, you will have to pick up the slack and create that tension.

    #2a.. Mono folks, especially lighter mono(20# and less).. when you get that fish tension, set the hook in a hard, fast sweeping motion and be sure you have good rod load, if the tension isnt great, reel the tip down(holding tension and set it again. Flatheads have tough skin,and larger diameter hooks are not always the easiest things to penetrate with a bungee cord.

    #2b .. Superline … when you have obvious fish tension, it doesnt take much more than a snap of the wrist and sweep to set the hook into these fish. No stretch lines backed up by heavy rods put a whole lot of pressure on that hook in a hurry. It does not take much to get the bullhead off the hook when the bullhead is lodged in a fishes mouth or throat. Its far more important to pay attention to proper hook setting procedure, than to lose focaus trying to set a hook in a way that would stop a hippo. A few pounds of pressure is more than enough to sink in 10/0 Gamakatsu, and even less is needed on smaller sizes. The more forgiving(soft) the rod is, the harder you have to set the hook, the heavier rods out there do not need much.

    #3 .. as soon as that hook is home and the fish is on the end of your line pulling out drag… no level of hooksetting is going to further bury the hook beyond what the #20 of drag is going to do.. or about the equivelent of dragging a cinder block.

    The reality is.. we are not fishing crappies, we must set the hook with some authority… but we don have to do Bill Dance impersonations and try to launch the fish out of the water on the hooksets either.

    Every year I see many fish missed because of poor hooksetting procedure… this is something that can be avoided… no worries, we will all miss enough doing everything right!

    Brian Klawitter
    Keymaster
    Minnesota/Wisconsin Mississippi River
    Posts: 59992
    #586913

    Nice Dave! Thanks for taking the time!

    The one piece that I explain to my clients is when setting the hook…if it’s a missed fish and the bullhead comes back with the hook…it wasn’t a hard enough hook set.

    And of course your post is not talking about circle hooks.

    Awesome post though!

    Chris
    Rochester, MN
    Posts: 1396
    #586918

    Good read. Makes me want to fish for some kitties

    Jack Naylor
    Apple Valley, MN
    Posts: 5668
    #586923

    David,
    Excellent read on a very important subject when Cat fishing.
    Thanks,
    Jack..

    life1978
    Eau Claire , WI
    Posts: 2790
    #586961

    Nery interesting!

    channelcatben
    South Minneapolis
    Posts: 363
    #586976

    Good topic, Dave. This has been an area of frustration for me for some time now.

    How about fishing with floats? I’ve been using a slip-float rig a lot lately, and fishing just a couple feet off the bottom in slow current in 15 to 20 feet of water. It’s partially working for me. I’ve been getting plenty of takes, and at times I’ll have one on for a few seconds. Unfortunately, in the last three outings, I have not landed one of them.

    Some of them have felt like pretty good fish, so I don’t think that it’s all small fish lipping my bait. I just think I’m not getting a decent hookset.

    I don’t have a lot of experience with slip-floats. Is there a special way to set a hook with this rig, or am I just overthinking it?

    Ben

    Brian Klawitter
    Keymaster
    Minnesota/Wisconsin Mississippi River
    Posts: 59992
    #587031

    What type of hook and line are you using Ben?

    How are you hooking your live bait?

    hanson
    Posts: 728
    #587060

    Floats?

    I like those big cat bobbers. They are yellow foam and about the size of a pop can. I use circle hooks exclusively under them and when a fish hits, the float has sooooo much resistance the hook is typically set on the bite.

    hanson
    Posts: 728
    #587067

    Good info Dave!

    This tidbit goes back to the Hooking Percentage topic…

    – Identify the bite
    – Feel for the fish

    If you are 99.9% sure (thats a country song!) a fish is on the line because you can feel him, let that rod load a bit and drive it home. I have not missed many fish this year spending a couple extras seconds feeling him and letting him load the rod a little.

    One reason I use Garcia 7000s exclusively now is the clicker tension on them. It takes a lot to pull clicker on a 7000. This will eliminate “false” runs from debris buildup, bats hitting your lines, floaters catching your line, active bullheads, etc when you aren’t paying attention. Typically when a 7000 clicker goes off, a fish caused it.

    Lots of folks starting out and even with some experience treat every zip of their clicker as a fish, this becomes especially bad with Baitrunner reels that aren’t cranked up. Even a 6500 has a problem holding 4 oz weight, bullhead, and some salad on the line without zipping clicker. A lot of the time, these clicker runs aren’t fish, aren’t even close. Identify the bite!

    I’ve said it before, if there is any question as to whether or not its a fish, its probably best to set the hook. Sometimes it is a fish! I’ll get to this point after I’ve held the rod for 20 seconds or so (maybe longer) after what appeared to be a bite, trying to feel him. Sometimes if they are in the wood, or your sinker is stuck in rock, it’ll feel really weird and its hard to identify the fish.

    Anyway, I think a lot of people are missing fish because there is no fish there in the first place, but they think there is.

    rburns
    Wisconsin
    Posts: 284
    #587081

    I agree with the circle hooks on the float rigs. Slack line was always a problem for me. With a circle hook, when the float goes down, you just reel up tight. If it is a fish they are usually hooked, if it was snagged on something, the circle hook will probably pull free without digging in.

    I don’t use my 7000’s very often, (I feel they are overkill unless you have women or children on board) it does get to be a pain loosening and tightening the brake all the time, but I hate fighting fish on overkill tackle. That is just my preference. Anyway, I can get the brake tight enough to where it a takes are real good pull by the bluegill (they are not as strong as a bullhead) to pull any line.

    This year it has been interesting learning the difference between channel and flathead strikes, just from the clicker activity.

    Brian Klawitter
    Keymaster
    Minnesota/Wisconsin Mississippi River
    Posts: 59992
    #587096

    Quote:


    I feel they are overkill unless you have women or children on board


    Thanks. I feel a bit girlish at times.

    There’s a big differance between an experianced cat guy and someone just starting. I’ve notice with clients (inexperiance at flatting) they tend to hold the rod horiziontaly too long with their finger on the spool. This IMO allows the flat to drop the bait as this practice pulls on the hook and the bully.

    Feeling the fish without him feeling you is very important IMO.

    “Following” the fish with the rod tip and when the tip hits horizontal…no delay! Cross his whiskers!

    If there’s a hookset and a missed fish, my feelings are that if the bait comes back on the hook…it wasn’t a hard enough hookset to clear the bait from the hook.

    The above does not apply to circle hooks or what I call…screaming runs.

    My personal nightmare is the upstream swimmer. You know, when all of the sudden you notice the line moving up past the back end of your boat? I think I have all the slack out…only to find that I reeled up to the sinker and there’s still a lot of line between the sinker and the fish. I hate it when that happens!

    flatheadwi
    La Crosse, WI
    Posts: 578
    #587097

    I’m not a fan of clickers or baitrunners – if you guys are fishing from boats, you should be able to see bites before the clicker is ever used. I use spinning rigs and I generally keep the drag about where I want it to be for the fight. My buddy uses a baitrunner and about 95% of the time it doesn’t start letting line out because he sees the hit first. When it does, it’s usually a gar or channel, but it could sometimes be a flathead. When his baitrunner starts getting line stripped, the fish generally lets go before he can do anything about it.

    If you’re in a boat sitting within a few feet of your rod, you should see it start to bend over or do one of the few other things that means a cat is on (thump-jump in the rod holder, go slack, slowly pulse – little one – or move to the side). There’s almost always time to pick it up and and let the fish load it up or reel up to where you feel the fish. When there’s not, the fish either hooks itself or didn’t get the fish in its mouth and you weren’t going to hook it anyway.

    When using BIG baits like very large bluegills, mooneyes (if you can keep them alive) or very large bullheads, I like to hook them through the lips. It reduces the struggle on the bottom a bit, but the hook finds its way into the flat’s mouth more consistently and you miss less.

    Late June/early July is notorious for light hitting flats in my experience – it’s inevitibly the time of year I miss the most. It brings back an old discussion I’ve had with some great catmen – do flatheads feed more during the hot water periods? One school of thought is that the high water temperatures force them to eat more because their metabolism is higher – inevitible as cold-blooded creatures. They have to eat more to maintain weight (besides the demands of spawning, etc…) I’m not so sure about this – they seem less aggressive to me – and I’m thinking oxygen demand is also higher and availability lower in hot water, so they may be “lazier”. It’s interesting stuff to think about, but I’ve never gotten anywhere definitive with it…

    What were we talking about again? Oh yeah – setting the hook. If you can tell there’s a fish on – set the hook. If it didn’t work, it was one of those light biters that may never have taken your bait all the way anyway. And if you’re like me and you use Kahles – set it hard! If you whiff, try again, if you don’t whiff, you won’t lose that fish!

    hanson
    Posts: 728
    #587142

    More good info!

    When it comes to clicker use, I’ll agree that I spot many of my bites long before the clicker ever goes off. However, if I’m mixing a drink, grillin’ food, or just BSing too much, its good to know that the clicker will alert me to fish activity if I’m otherwise preoccupied. And possibly prevent a rod from going in the drink too!

    flatheadwi
    La Crosse, WI
    Posts: 578
    #587147

    Sounds like you need better rodholders – are you fishing from shore? There are some great options for that, otherwise, if you’re in a boat there’s no excuse – there are lots of good solid rodholder options out there that’ll make it about impossible to lose a rod (although if you’re comatose and your drag is cranked tight, you could break one…)

    Tom P.
    Whitehall Wi.
    Posts: 3524
    #587302

    When I lived in DesMoines Iowa in the mid 70`s they were just finishing the dam on the DesMoines river. Those flatheads there would sit and mouth a bait for hours. We would use 3 to 5 lb suckers, or at least a 1 lb bluegill. When I have fished flatheads on the Mississippi they don`t seem to sit and play with the bait like those flats did. It was a continues geusing game with those flats, when to set the hook.

    It was all bank fishing and it is the only time I seen a guy hook up a flat and spooled 80 lb test line until he tightened down the drag to where the line finally broke. He had know choice either stop the cat or let the knot on the reel stop it. And evedently the knot would not of stopped it. Never even slowed that cat down you could see the line move back and forth when that cat moved it`s tail on it`s treak down river. There was no way to move down the bank to follow the fish at that time. They had fences set up to keep people away from the construction area.

    Needless to say I was in aument.

    david_scott
    Twin Cities
    Posts: 2946
    #587650

    Flathead WI brought up some very valid points on fish agression in hot water and low current. I have noticed it for years the bite gets funky when the temps are up, and the current is non existant. This is by far the hardest time to get a fish to take a bait, let alone get a hook into a fish.

    For the last 5 or 6 years I have been focusing on fresh cutbait in these conditions when everything else fails with good results. My theory(right or wrong) is these fish still want to/have to eat, but they dont want to spend energy chasing baits around. Maybe the fish are lethargic, maybe the fish have ample food supply of dieing baitfish from the tough conditions? I really dont know, but I do know the cutbait bite can be good specificly in mid July-August. Most often my best results this time of year is in area with concentrated current, preferably heavy current regardless of depth and structure. Its possible the fish are there just for the concentrated oxygen supply, and the abundance of food taking advantage of that oxygen supply.

    There is so much about these fish we really dont know.. theres only so much we can learn about them from books. From time to time we run into concentrations of fish and really dont know why they are there… but odds are the answer is simple… they are there for survival. Big flatheads dont get big by sitting in a river channel dormant in hot water not eating anything.

    Even right now, the action has ecome unpredictable.. one night 3-5 fish make their way into the boat, the next 3 nights you are skunked wondering what happened.. when yo think the world has come to an end.. all of a sudden you get another good night. I know darn well these fish are feeding somewhere, either the bite time is shifting drasticly, or these fish are targeting different structures night to night in some areas.

    Sorry to drag this off topic.. but its easier to figure out what to do with a bite… when you get a bite!

    bubbaboy
    Alta,Iowa
    Posts: 68
    #587655

    good info thanks

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