Swivel Business?

It was a post by Whiskerkev that started me thinking. His post went something like this….”Swivels are generally only good for half of their rating.”

My first thought was BS. If a swivel is marked at 80 lbs, I would bet it’s good for 80…even a bad one should hold up to 70 lbs…right? I thought I would do a little Briank test to prove that statement right or wrong. Kind my own little Myth Busting…so to speak.

Let me start off by saying my little testing facility is not what anyone would call controlled or scientific environment. Just my garage…where anything that’s worth thinking about is worth thinking about in the garage.

I tied a length of new 80 lbs Power Pro to a 2×6 rafter after inspecting it to ensure I wouldn’t pull the garage down if I pulled too hard. Then I tied 80 lbs unknown brand swivel (SW1) to that length and another length to the other end of SW1…with a loop at the opposing end. To this loop I attached a Cabalas 100 lbs spring scale. I used Uni knots for all knots except the final loop knot that the scale would go through.
I’ve tested this scale using six 10 lbs weight lifting weights. The scale is calibrated in 2 lbs increments. With each 10 lbs of weight added, the scale read within 2 lbs on either side of the 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 and 60 lbs markings. To keep it simple…let’s just say it’s margin of error up to 60 lbs is 5 lbs either way…or 10 lbs total.

I started to pull on the scale and began to think “80 lbs is a lot to be pulling!” About the time I thought this was going to get tough…something broke with a bang. Figured I better get some safety glasses on for the next test.

The picture (#1) below shows SW1 and where the failure was -along with the scale and the weight it broke at.

Next I used Berkley’s McMahon swivels (SW2), size 3 and 100 lbs. Same test. Picture (#2) shows the product, the area of failure and the scale marking what weight it broke at.

I spoke with the Manager of Berkley’s terminal tackle division, Mr. Norris. He explained that they have a machine that test the strength of swivel along with their fishing line. They randomly check for advertised strength on all of there products. He couldn’t verify if my un scientific tests were valid or not. What he is going to do is to have these swivels tested using their equipment and let me know the results. He offered to replace the swivels with new, tested ones. I thought this to be a good idea, then I could test those the way I tested SW1 & SW2 to see what the results are.

Because this is un scientific…and this is not my field of expertise, I can’t say that the don’t stand up the there advertised rating. I can say the results were not what I expected.

More to come, photos are below and comments are welcome.

Pict #1 with SW1

Pict #2 showing SW2

You have not even put the boat away yet and you are doing this already, man you are in for a LONG winter

Those test surprise me. I thought that they would hold up to there rated strength.

Ron

Wow, off by more than a factor of 2! That’s not good. I don’t see anything invalid about your test method Brian. I guess that also explains why the Musky guys don’t like using any terminal tackle they absolutely don’t need. The fewer things down there to break, the better.

Rootski

my guess is they are made over seas and they spot check them. The quality of the raw materials may vary from state to state.

“Assuming” the way I tested them is correct…or even close… I think they would still bring in a 50 pound or better fish. A fish in the water doesn’t weigh 50 pounds…and then there’s the bending of the rod and in some cases the drag on the reel. In my situation, I have the drag tightened down as far as it will go, but 30’s and 40’s don’t know that and will still peel off line on a Garcia 7000.

One thought I had last night was..getting back to my unscientific testing…

If the swivel is rated at 100 pounds and the line is rated at 80…wouldn’t you expect the line to break ..at least at a knot before the swivel broke?

The package states “Made in China”. Mr. Norris thought that all brands of swivels are made in China now days.

Again, I would wait to see how Berkley’s tests come back before making a hard conclusion.

Excellent work, Brian. Time to ditch swivels altogether. I don’t use them unless I’m in heavy current.

Now… same garage, same setup, no swivel. Take one line with a no-roll sinker on it tied to a hook and lift and drop the weight onto the hook/knot 100 times. Do the same with a second setup that includes a little plastic bead…

Good idea Matt! My wife has the day off today!

Question? If you don’t use a swivel, do you let the sinker slide up to the hook…then let a little line out?

I shortened my leaders (using a swivel) down to about 5 – 6 inches this year. It seems to have helped with less snags and the line tangling around the sinker that happens once in a while on the cast. Can’t say if it hurt or helped my catch rate…even unscientificly.

Interesting info Brian,but I can’t hep but wonder if Deb is going to be in need of the sign in the old Peanuts cartoon before the winter is over.

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the doctor is in

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dave

Brian,

I would be willing to bet you couldn’t break one of the Spro swivels. I tried to post the link but the sight didn’t like the link. They are available at Cabelas.

Whisker? I would hope Stainless Steel would hold up!

I found my last brass one (above) in my tackle box the otherday. The wire loops never bent and the 80 lbs Power Pro kept breaking at 65 lbs. (remember my scale might be 10 lbs off.)

That line sure pops when it breaks with a 65 lbs load on it!

The difference at the factory may be that they use mono for the weight. Using power pro may concentrate the force into a smaller area. Try your test with Mono and see if it happens the same. I have yet to have a Spro break on me. I think your rod would go first.

As a follow up…

The larger brass swivels (similar to the picture above) are South Bend Size 1, 80 lbs test….my 80lbs Power Pro broke before the wire loops started to bend each time. Fleet Farm has this for .79 cent for a package of 5.

Spro, (110 lbs all I could find at Fleet Farm) did the same, the Power Pro broke in each of the 5 test pulls. These ran $2.49 for a 10 pack.

As of today, I haven’t heard back from Berkely as promised.

Thought I would pull this out of the darkness…for all of us swivel guys…and gals….

I kinda wish you wouldn’t have. I just found some for $2 a gross. However, on the other had I feel a little better because most of them are 100#’ers and you almost don’t need a sinker with em.

I wonder how those horrible looking 3way swivels hold up?

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Nice test Brian
I stopped using swivels years ago for this reason. It was just one more thing to fail when I had a fish of a lifetime on. To many knots, hardware etc. I let my weight slide directly to the bead above my hook. One knot, bead to protect the knot, less to worry about. i do not let out any line after the bait is thrown out. If you notice he isnt moving just pop the line a couple of times and he will come to life. i have always thought the Flatheads could find the bait easier if it could not swim in a 36″ diameter circle plus my bait stays lively longer and doesnt hide under things. i also use this same technique for channels with cut bait. Sometimes you can put a bobber stop above the hook to stop the weight if you want some leader. Chris

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Very interesting tip Mate! I considered trying this but was getting hung up on worrying about line twist, any bad experiences with that.
Thanks for sharing the idea.
Larry

The one piece I still don’t get is if the swivels break at 35 lbs +/- 5 lbs…why when the hook is snagged up and I use a stick to pull it out…the 80 lbs Power Pro breaks before the swivel? I’ve never had a swivel break in the water?

I’m missing something in my testing. Water??

What do you mean by “I use a stick”? You wrapping the line around the stick to give you something to pull the line with like a handle? If so, is that where it is breaking? My guess is where it breaks depends on what is snagged. If the hook is snagged, more than likely you get the sinker and swivel back. Obviously if the sinker is snagged, the whole rig will be lost. Ok, those are obvious points.

What is different here than when you are fishing. Your line can be twisted, reducing it’s strength. I don’t think that would be enough though a because a swivel is suppose to reduce that in the first place and secondly, I doubt it could twist enough to reduce it to below the 35# breakage of the swivels. I think the most important element you are missing here is torque. If the hook gets caught in timber or a rock, the stress point most likely be somewhere in the leader. More than likely the leader is not straight and is either wrapped around something or bent around a rock or branch. The sharper the edge on these objects, the more focused the stress point.

I think a good second test would be to wrap your leader in the middle around an object like a broom stick. Actually, something with sharper corners like a brick of 2X4 might even be better since most objects underwater will have some nice edges. Then see what happens.

It would also be interesting to have people chime in on where their line has snapped on big fish. I am talking fish that are being fought in the open. I think you might find a lot more that have had swivels fail than line break.

Then again, I might just be talking out of here –>

If my line breaks while fighting a fish or setting the hook. It is usually above the swivel and a result of a nick, or abrasion from the sinker, weakening the main line.

Lesson: Re-tie often and check your line, even with PP.

bump and move to the cat/sturgeon forum.

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The one piece I still don’t get is if the swivels break at 35 lbs +/- 5 lbs…why when the hook is snagged up and I use a stick to pull it out…the 80 lbs Power Pro breaks before the swivel? I’ve never had a swivel break in the water?

I’m missing something in my testing. Water??

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I guess I am thinking along this line also. Based on my personal experiences I’m not worried about swivel failure. I have even gone to using snap swivels because it allows me to change leader length and hook sizes very easily. I’ve never even had a snap swivel fail.

I’ve been fishing a lot of years and I have never had a fish break a swivel. When I am hung up and have to break off it never seems to break at the swivel from what I can tell. When I get hung up my drag lets loose long before the line breaks even when I have the drag cranked down. I’m not worried about swivels being a weak point – if I was losing fish I would be but I never have. Interesting test though, thanks for the info.

Do you have the tackle testing lab set up again?

To get right back to you on your question from page one (and from 2005), I don’t use swivels, and don’t worry about my bait having line on the bottom. I don’t leave bait sit if it isn’t struggling, so they’re getting some line worked out anyways, but I want them to stay as close to where I intentionally put them as possible.

The other factors are that no swivel means only one knot (knots being potential weak points), without swivels I get snagged less and get out of snags more frequently, and it’s just way faster and easier to tie only one knot each time.

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Do you have the tackle testing lab set up again?

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No..just had a pm asking about swivels. Thought I would pull this out of the Miss…cat forum and bring to the top.

Ball bearing swivels, though somewhat costly, seam to be more withstanding than any other swivels or snaps I have come across.

All too often the weight sliding on the line wears your mainline down, fraying it (I use PP). Retie every night for sure, at several times a night if needed. Its not worth loosing fish.

HOWEVER, I have to agree with FlatheadWI’s statement. I have began to swtich to ONLY hook at weight. Not only is it easier to rig in the dark, it is only ONE KNOT. Simple and effective. If you want the bait to have some swim-line, just give it a few inches from your spool.

If you dont pull your light taught every time (with a swivel or not) the bait is swimming completely freely anyways, thus swivels turn completely useless to the majority of guys that just cast and sit. Set your rod and reel the skack line up taught.

Just my 2cents

Nice resurection! Good god! 2005?