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At the Lessard-Sams hearing the DNR testified that this barrier could effect native fish, such as the flatheads, because they have about the same sensitivity level as the carp.
I sure would be nice to know the movements of Flats between the St Croix and the Mississippi right now.
Anyone know anything about sound frequencies and flats?
So far the only reason I can see for a Sonic Bubbler is F.U.D.
Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt.
Does anyone have information that shows how fast these carp are moving up stream?
* We don’t know if they will make it up this far (and breed. Look at the Blue Catfish for example)
* We don’t know how effective the “sonic bubbler” is…if at all.
* We don’t know how it will effect the Flathead Catfish migration patterns in that area. Last I heard was a flathead was radio traced 60 miles from wintering to summer areas. (furthest tracked)
* Electro shocking/netting has not produced 1 asian carp even though the edna shows they are here.
* We don’t know how accurate the edna testing is.
I’m not for or against at this point, just hoping there’s some answers out there that I don’t have access too.
Seems to me like a solution that is grasping at straws. So how does a bubblier work in high flood waters like we had this year? What happens when joe blow running the bubblier falls a sleep as the wheel and it quits running? Putting in another barrier sure seems counter productive to restoring natural fish patterns on the river.
Like I said before I have no idea what would be a good solution to stopping these fish.
Maybe that is the question Mike.
Do we spend a wad of money and hope for the best?
or
Don’t spend any money and hope for the best?
I have watched a lot of stuff on these carp, and one scary thing was that they said in some stretches of the Illinois river they are something like 95 percent of the biomass per river mile. Scary.
Have the bubblers been tested anywhere else? I was wondering if the bubblers act in the same way as boat motors and agitate the fish into jumping?
Instead of trying stupid stuff like this they should find a way to make these fish into food. We could then put our fisherman back to work and instead of giving money and other food stuff to starving people around the world, we could send them canned carp. I certainly think that we should hang the commercial fish producers who allowed these fish to escape into the river to encourage the others.
“Like” what Kev said!
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By Dan Egan of the Journal Sentinel
Sept. 20, 2011 |(100) Comments
It is a stark reminder that the Asian carp infestation that has overwhelmed stretches of river in the Mississippi River basin and is now threatening the waters of the Great Lakes isn’t going to go away anytime soon: The Illinois Department of Natural Resources has hired a Louisiana chef for a made-for-media event later this week to demonstrate just how good these fish can be to eat.
It’s part of the Target Hunger Now campaign, a state-sponsored humanitarian effort to turn the jumbo jumping carp into “healthy, ready-to-serve meals” for the needy. The program also provides venison to the poor.
It already has provided thousands of meals to needy children and families, but this is about more than feeding the poor.
Illinois is in a protracted battle with its neighboring Great Lakes states over how to beat back the carp that are migrating up the Chicago Sanitary and Ship Canal, a man-made link between the carp-infested Mississippi basin and Lake Michigan.
Neighboring states want Illinois to slam shut two navigation locks as a makeshift barrier to block the advance of the fish; Illinois contends that such a closure would do great harm to the barge industry that relies on a free-flowing canal, and that it is unnecessary because an electric barrier on the canal is keeping the carp at bay.
Not everyone is so convinced the barrier is working as advertised. Water samples taken from the 70-plus miles of canals above the barrier repeatedly have tested positive for Asian carp DNA, and in the summer of 2010, a 20-pound Asian carp was pulled from a fisherman’s net about 7 miles south of Lake Michigan.
Illinois officials see its eat-the-carp program as another tool to keep the fish out of Lake Michigan.
According to the Illinois DNR:
“Illinois’ $15 billion-dollar shipping industry has been threatened through ongoing legal actions by neighboring Great Lakes states in an attempt to close Chicago’s navigation locks. Using Asian carp as a healthy food source for food banks is a major step towards eradication of the fish in Illinois waters and protects the waterway shipping industry from forced closures of our locks and dam systems.”
The Illinois DNR also hopes the program will do some good for Illinois rivers.
“The Asian carp threat also continues to have a negative impact on Illinois’ commercial and sport fishing industries and tourism and leads to revenue and job loss. Asian carp are voracious eaters consuming more than 40 percent of their body weight per day in plankton,” states the Illinois DNR’s official description of the program.
“They compete with our native fish species for food and can quickly overtake native populations of fish in our rivers, lakes and streams. The planned overfishing program of Asian carp will help protect these multi-billion dollar industries in Illinois and the Great Lakes while protecting revenues and ensuring jobs. The overfishing program for Asian carp will also provide an abundance of fish available to feed our fellow Illinoisans.”
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X2…I’m with you Kevin. The Commercial Fishing Industry should be experimenting and testing a variety of new recipes and mothods of producing edible versions of these fish. I think you may have hit on one very good idea…canning these things and sending them all around the world. I think a canned version would be similar in quality to canned salmon…only the name would scare people off.
Trying to produce food from these seems a much better answer than trying to erradication…which is impossible without enormous calateral damage (i.e. killing all other fish in the process).
L8R…Ken
Some great points were brought up here. We are flying blind right now on this asian carp thing and that is very disconcerting but what can we do we got caught with our pants down.
The bubbler thing I have my doubts like everyone else even the powers at be the only ones that have no doubt are probably the ones selling the technology.
As far as flatheads didn’t the DNR have a volunteer study program last year where cat fisherman sent in info on where cats were caught, or was that this year man my memory is getting bad just like my eye sight. Would like to know the results of that study if it were successful. I always thought the flatheads didn’t travel far its the channels that travel the long distances.
One thing for sure this asian carp thing really is showing how much we don’t know about the fish in our own waters. I don’t know if the priority of stocking fish should take precedence over research right now or maybe at least more resources should be devoted to research. I know some may think taking away from the sacred cow of stocking would be bad but I feel with these exotics of this era and age we are backing ourselves into a corner without further exploration.
I know you were looking for information and striking up a needed conversation BK but I don’t think there is to much info out there to be had. Maybe by asking these questions the answers will be looked for by those that make the decisions.
Just a bit of rambling of my minds thoughts.
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Instead of trying stupid stuff like this they should find a way to make these fish into food. We could then put our fisherman back to work and instead of giving money and other food stuff to starving people around the world, we could send them canned carp. I certainly think that we should hang the commercial fish producers who allowed these fish to escape into the river to encourage the others.
We’re not going to stop the migration of the Asian carp. The barriers are just a waste of time and money. They will expand to the extent at which the environment allows them to. Unfortunately, that includes temperate zones (like most of the midwest). Our best bet is to control the populations once they are established-and one way to do that is commercially harvest them. From what I understand, they are good eating-the Asians consider them prime fare. The problem is that you don’t catch them by hook and line, and they are boney and hard to fillet. There are some very good videos on U-tube that shows how to clean and cook the fish. The meat is white like a walleye. The best video I saw was by a USGS fisheries guy, and he cuts them so that the bones remain in the fillet, and he pulls them out after cooked-like a chicken wing.
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Maybe that is the question Mike.
Do we spend a wad of money and hope for the best?
or
Don’t spend any money and hope for the best?
Hopefully they have someone a lot smarter than us working this and not just someone that is good at spending money.
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Instead of trying stupid stuff like this they should find a way to make these fish into food. We could then put our fisherman back to work and instead of giving money and other food stuff to starving people around the world, we could send them canned carp. I certainly think that we should hang the commercial fish producers who allowed these fish to escape into the river to encourage the others.
Do you mean a recipe Kev? That would turn them into food. Start selling guide trips to south east asians to come over and fish virgin water for trophy silvers.
If a profitable market can be created for asian carp and turn everyone loose I could see the asian carp being put on the endangered species list 
. We have all seen it before create a private sector market where people can make money and government get out of the way that will control populations.
As with everything I can see some problems with this to. Create a demand for Asian carp, Companies go out and harvest them to the point that the population crashes, People still want the fish so people start stocking them in farm ponds and who know where. Next thing you know there are getting loose in more areas.
Why not get a few of these Highly Educated Bio-Medical Engineers to genetically modify/mutate a bunch ad to turn their whole population into canibals that desire their own flesh or turn them all into [censored] & lesbian fish, so they’ll never breed? 
We must have a few companies that could do this to demonstrate their Bio-Medical Expertise for all the Grants, Loans and other Tax Incentives the our State & Local Governments are offering them to locate in the Bio-Medical Parks. 
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Scientists estimate the fish are swimming upstream an average of 50 miles a year, and will soon become more abundant in Minnesota waters.
Coming to a river near you: flying carp
Filed in Uncategorized on Mar.11, 2011
by Rob Schmitz, Minnesota Public Radio
A Minnesota DNR employee sets a 300-foot net near Hastings. The DNR is targeting Asian carp now that one has been discovered in Lake Pepin. (MPR Photo/Rob Schmitz)
Tales of flying carp have been popular in recent months in baitshops, coffee houses and around the water coolers in Minnesota. But the discovery last month of an Asian carp in Lake Pepin has put a very real edge on the stories. State and federal agencies are stepping up efforts to try and repel the invasive species.
Hastings, Minn. — As a DNR fisheries specialist, Kevin Stoffer has done his fair share of work trying to educate the public about exotic species and the threats they pose to the state’s ecosystems. All too often, he says, the information is met with blank stares. That’s changed now.
“We’ve dealt with a lot of exotics, whether its zebra mussels, eurasian milfoil, purple loose strife, round gobis,” says Stoffer. “I don’t think anything has grabbed the public’s attention quite like the Asian carp have, and I gotta think that’s because they come flying out of the water and hit people.”
The DNR is worried about how the Asian carp’s voracious appetite will affect native species. However, the television images from Missouri and Illinois of the fish jumping more than 10 feet out of the water have earned the three species of Asian carp near-celebrity status.
Stories of boaters who have been injured by the flying fish have added a touch of notoriety.
Up until a few weeks ago, Stoffer and his colleagues were setting nets on the Mississippi near the Iowa border to look for the fish. But that was before one was discovered on Lake Pepin, almost 100 miles upstream. Today, Stoffer is driving north along Highway 61 to set nets near Hastings, almost 70 miles further upstream.
He arrives at the boat launch where two colleagues are waiting for him in their boat. He jumps in and they set off towards their nets.
Just below Lock and Dam Number Two, they stop the boats and start pulling up a 300-foot mesh net. The day’s catch is three common carp, and no sign of any Asian carp. Stoffer says looking for the fish at such an early stage is like finding a needle in a haystack.
“They’re very good at avoiding nets. They have good eyesight and strong avoidance reactions. If one fish is in the net, they tend to sense that,” says Stoffer.
Downstream in Illinois, this isn’t the case. According to the Illinois Natural History Survey, since 1994, commercial fishermen have caught more than 55 tons of Asian carp per year. Scientists estimate the fish are swimming upstream an average of 50 miles a year, and will soon become more abundant in Minnesota waters.
The carp devour plankton at the base of the food chain. Scientists on the Illinois River say they’re already seeing reductions in native species. Some fear the fish will eventually take over the entire upper Mississippi ecosystem.
In response to the threat, the DNR is working with other states and federal agencies to examine ways of either preventing the fish from swimming further upstream or eliminating the species altogether.
Jay Rendall, the exotic species coordinator for the Minnesota DNR, says a proposal to build an underwater electric fence is popular. One has already been proposed along a wide stretch of the river near the Iowa border.
“We’re looking at not just one place but several places, and perhaps it needs to be used in combination with other technologies,” says Rendall.
Other technologies include an underwater acoustic barrier that would emit bubbles that carry high-frequency sound waves, which have been shown to drive off the Asian carp. Phil Moy is a Wisconsin-based environmental consultant. He worked for eight years on an electric barrier at the mouth of the Illinois River. He’s skeptical whether it would work on the much larger Mississippi River.
“What we don’t know about that location, or other locations, are these less tangible effects or less controlled effects like the flood situations, the sediment situations, the debris. There might potentially be a problem with barges or navigation,” says Moy.
Moy worries the Mississippi’s infamous mud will swallow electrodes, rendering the barrier useless. He adds that the huge barges on the river might also disrupt the electrical field. Another concern is what the barrier would do to native species on the river.
As state and federal agencies scramble to find a way to eliminate the Asian carp, Moy poses a much simpler strategy: If you can’t beat ‘em, well, eat ‘em.
“These are not bottom feeders, they are feeding up in the water column. They’re eating plant plankton and animal plankton, so they’re not going to be picking up that muddy flavor people tend to connotate with the common carp,” says Moy.
Moy says an Illinois food processing company recently signed a contract to purchase two million pounds of Asian carp for human consumption. He says breaded Asian carp patties are delicious.
The Minnesota DNR hopes to finish a feasibility study that will address the Asian carp problem in a few months. They plan to present the study to the state Legislature next March.
Maybe I’ll mention a few things about this subject. I’ll try to keep it to facts as much as possible and leave my opinion out of it. So take it for what it is worth and read nothing more into it.
1. Asian carp are already being targeted by commercial fisherman farther south. As I was told, they can’t even satisfy the current global market they are shipping to. Plus, since they are shipping fish around the world, they run into the occasional political issues, like tariffs, that hurt the market.
2. Those fish that aren’t used for food are used as fertilizer, fish/pet food, etc.
3. The part of the sonic bubbler that affects catfish the most is the sonic part. Basically, they choose a frequency that deters the target species the most. Just so happens that catfish overlap in that frequency range. When it comes to trying to prevent Asian carp from passing a point in a river, catfish will likely lose that battle. We don’t know if passage for catfish in the Prescott area is critical, but our educated guess is no, it is not, and catfish will be just fine not being able to pass through the Prescott narrows.
4. This type of barrier has never been used in this large of a scale.
5. The certainties of life are death, taxes, and no barrier is 100% effective.
6. Asian carp have been swimming upstream for 30-40 years. Everyone should have known this was coming. I saw a 30 pound bighead carp for the first time in Indiana in 1998 and had never heard of them.
I’ll leave it at that. 
Joel
30 or 40 years? 
Thanks Joel.
Especially the part of the cats moving through the Prescott area.
Does this barrier effect both channels and flats?
I have one other question.
Why aren’t they here already in numbers? A person would think they would be constantly moving up stream for spawning reasons if nothing else.
Heres a question, Is it because the colder the waters have less plankton, beings thier plankton eaters? So that water doesen’t support a large population, just wondering.
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Does this barrier effect both channels and flats?
I have one other question.
Why aren’t they here already in numbers? A person would think they would be constantly moving up stream for spawning reasons if nothing else.
I sat in on a presentation by a company rep who makes these things and they made no differentiation between species of catfish. I don’t have the specifics, but I did write down in my notes that they reported “catfish.”
Could be a few reasons they may not be here in huge numbers yet. Keep in mind, this is me guessing as I haven’t researched these ideas. They are some educated guesses.
If things are good where they are, why would they leave? I don’t know if they have any homing tendencies, but if you’re a planktivore and life is good, don’t make any changes.
They grow fast, and I’m wondering if they are stonger swimmers and more adventurous when they are a little smaller. Once they get big, they have to expend a lot of energy pushing their bigger bodies through the current. They might be attracted to the current at the dam for spawning, avoid the lock more or less, spawn, then the eggs drift downstream and hatch and that hatch has to come back upstream again.
Maybe they have a homing preference to spawn where they were spawned. Only the ones that don’t migrate back to where they hatched would be the ones that would be expanding the population upstream. Totally a guess, but it sounds good doesn’t it?
Joel
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Heres a question, Is it because the colder the waters have less plankton, beings thier plankton eaters? So that water doesen’t support a large population, just wondering.
It’s possible they haven’t gotten here sooner because of the growing seasons here. But paddlefish can do it. Paddlefish have been on the decline in this state for years, but it is not because of the lack of food, it is because of the lock and dam system and changing habitat. Metabolism slows down quite a bit in winter and they eat enough to survive. That’s the nice thing about rivers, food is always coming downstream. Zooplankton doesn’t cease to exist in winter months, so if paddlefish can do it, so can Asian carp.
Thanks for your input Joel!
We’ll have to chat about paddles sometime. 
Yeah, it sure would be nice to see paddles make a comeback, even if you can’t fish for them (I am under the impression snagging is the only way).
Saw a cool show on them on an episode of Monster Fish.
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