I’m not a biologist…but

This was from last year out in PA. I’ve been doing some research and I’m surpised about the many differant attitudes towards Flatheads.

http://www.post-gazette.com/localnews/20020726catfish0726p7.asp

Home >  Local News 100-pound catfish invade Susquehanna

Friday, July 26, 2002

By The Associated Press

LANCASTER — One-hundred pound flathead catfish could eventually take over the Susquehanna River and disrupt its ecosystem, according to the Pennsylvania Fish and Boat Commission.

Last week, commission officials confirmed that the species recently entered the Susquehanna River. And officials are worried the predatory fish, which can reach more than 100 pounds, could cause problems for other species.

The agency is now looking for the help of anglers to help control the growth of the species, which is not native to the river.

“We’re going to start spreading the word that we would like anglers to keep and kill all flathead catfish they catch in the Susquehanna or its tributaries, no matter what the size of the fish,” said Mike Kaufman, a commission biologist.

Kaufman said he verified that the foreign species of catfish was in the river when he saw a photograph of one caught by Lititz resident Greg Misenko.

Misenko said he caught a 15-inch flathead July 13, near the Safe Harbor Dam. He said other men fishing in the area caught similar fish.

In Pennsylvania, flathead catfish are native to the Ohio, Allegheny and Monongahela river watersheds in Western Pennsylvania. The fish are more common in the southern and midwestern portions of the country.

On rare occasions, Kaufman said, anglers catch flathead catfish in the Schuylkill and Delaware rivers, and in Blue Marsh Lake in Berks County.

“We don’t know how they got there, just like we don’t know how they got into the Susquehanna,” Kaufman said.

Flathead catfish look much different than catfish species that are native to the Susquehanna River. Flathead catfish are brown, have a square tail and have a lower jaw that extends past the upper jaw.

Kaufman said the flathead catfish are aggressive breeders. The presence of flathead catfish could significantly reduce the number of other catfish, sunfish, rock bass, smallmouth bass and other species, he said.

Anglers likely won’t be able to kill off the flathead catfish now that they have been introduced, he said. But they can help manage them.

“Just taking one flathead out of the river is going to save a bunch of other fish because a single flathead eats so much — they are truly eating machines,” Kaufman said.

I find it amazing that someone thinks small mouth bass populations could be affected. I would love to take this guy smallie fishing by day on the Miss and astound him with catfishing at night. In my opinion, flatheads work like lions in the desert. They trim the old, the sick, and the baitfish. I have seen the small mouth population explode in our area over the last 10-15 years. The cats have zero effect on them.

Thank you! That’s what I was getting at! Where we know there’s cat’s and lots of them…the fishing seems to be pretty darn good…some people would say…getting better!

I’m just thinking out loud here, but if you read that story, then read the local asian carp story….don’t they sound similar?

I am a biologist and I have seen some data a year ago at the American Fisheries Society meeting in Baltimore that was pretty convincing. The data I saw was not on smallies, but it was pretty robust data that where the flatheads were invading, the sunfish populations were much lower than they had been. Sunfishing in that part of the country is a big deal, apparently. They do get lots bigger “bream” (as they call bluegills down there) than Minnesota folks do, usually, so it makes a kind of sense. There are people who are liking the flatheads too, so they keep moving them around. But most people would rather not have them there. I imagine that flatheads probably also have an impact on other species, too. The point is,in part, that flatheads are not native to that area, and the local fish are not adapted to dealing with them. In time they may reach more of an equilibrium, but it is hard to say what that equilibrium will be. Flatties are overpopulated and stunted in some SE drainages, and are having serious impacts on other fisheries.

Thanks for your view as a biologist.

Besides the above….people don’t like change…

Do you have anymore info on the AFS meeting? The speaker or even the year this data was presented.

Thanks!

That was at the American Fisheries Society meeting in Baltimore in 2002. I did not go to the 2003 meeting, which was in Canada. There were more papers presented there on the flathead invasion of the SE, but I did not see them all. Incidentally, the 2004 meeting will be in Madison, WI, a bit closer to your neck of the woods. There will be a symposium on Asian carp there.

I went to the AFS website and they do not still have the 2002 papers up. I checked out the 2003 papers and found the articles posted below. If you google the authors, you might find reference to the information that I was talking about.

Introduced Flathead Catfish Movement and Habitat Selection in North Carolina Rivers
Abstract
Flathead catfish Pylodictis olivaris were introduced into the Cape Fear River in 1966 and have expanded their range to include most drainages in eastern North Carolina. Our objectives were to determine movement and habitat selection in three coastal plain rivers. We radio tagged 12 to 24 fish in each river. Over 9 to 18 months, 95%, 55%, and 42% of tagged fish emigrated from the 2-km tagging areas in Contentnea Creek, Lumber River, and Northeast Cape Fear River, respectively, with four individuals relocated 40 km downstream. Fish tagged in June 2001 and tracked through December 2002 in Contentnea Creek showed long, seasonal movements likely related to spawning, discharge, and water temperature. Following a flood event in August 2001, 55% of fish were relocated in Contentnea Creek (25% returned), while 70% of fish returned to the tagging area in spring 2002, presumably for spawning. Flathead catfish strongly selected deep, low-velocity pools and slow-moving runs with some form of cover; particularly undercut bank, tree roots, and woody debris near shore. Our findings demonstrate the high mobility and habitat specificity of this species that warrant concern for their expansion within a drainage once introduced, and for management planning at the watershed scale.
Author(s)
Waters, D.S.* North Carolina Cooperative Fish and Wildlife Resea
Pine, W.E., III* North Carolina Cooperative Fish and Wildlife Resea
Kwak, T.J. U.S. Geological Survey, North Carolina Cooperative
Rice, J.A. Department of Zoology, North Carolina State Univer

Title
Estimating Population Size of an Exotic, Highly Mobile Piscivorous Fish in Coastal Rivers
Abstract
Flathead catfish (Pylodictis olivaris) were introduced into North Carolina in 1966 with a single release of 11 individuals into the Cape Fear River. Via legal and illegal introductions they now occur in at least 13 U.S. states and one Canadian province. We used a variety of capture-recapture models to estimate flathead catfish population parameters in Contentnea Creek and the Northeast Cape Fear River during the spring-summer 2001 and 2002. Our estimates for 2001 were hindered by low capture probabilities and high temporary emigration. In 2002, we employed a “robust-design” framework combined with a radio-telemetry study that allowed reasonable estimation of population size and temporary emigration. Population size estimates ranged from 4 to 32 fish/km (>125-mm TL) of sampling reach in Contentnea Creek and 4 to 9 fish/km for the Northeast Cape Fear River. Additional analyses showed high rates of temporary emigration (>90%), independently supported by our radio-telemetry results. Our results are useful to managers concerned with the expansion of introduced flathead catfish populations. This approach to population assessment of integrating the robust design with radio-telemetry provides insight into demographics and behaviors that is useful in developing a broad understanding of this and other invasive aquatic species.
Author(s)
Pine, W.E.* North Carolina Cooperative Fish and Wildlife Resea
Waters, D.S. North Carolina Cooperative Fish and Wildlife Resea
Kwak, T.J. U.S. Geological Survey, North Carolina Cooperative
Rice, J.R. Department of Zoology, North Carolina State Univer

I here you about the non native species. You can’t put the genie back in the bottle no matter how much you study it. Maybe the commercial fisherman out there could switch from cod to cat. I also believe you can make a study say anything you want it to. There are still tons of Bluegills on the Mississippi. I think humans have a lot more impact on the “bream” than any cold blooded whiskered killing machines.

actually humans have very little affect on panfish populations…i think this is one of the most common misconceptions of the common angler…it definately is in iowa, they are putting stricter reg.’s on the river just to keep the common angler (who has no idea when it comes to managing a body of water) happy…
i hope carptracker can elaborate a little more about this

Quote:

---

actually humans have very little affect on panfish populations…i think this is one of the most common misconceptions of the common angler…it definately is in iowa, they are putting stricter reg.’s on the river just to keep the common angler (who has no idea when it comes to managing a body of water) happy…
i hope carptracker can elaborate a little more about this

---

I’m not sure I agree with this thinking Jerad…..I have seen the results of creel surveys that showed that in some instances, over 90% of the sunfish over 7 inches, in sunfish “wintering” backwaters were harvested. There are numerous examples of this. I think the biggest threat to panfish populations on the river is the sedimentation of the backwaters. This limits spawning grounds….limits rearing ponds….limits wintering holes with adequate Oxygen levels…..forces panfish to congregate in massive numbers in the few remaining backwaters…..Which results in easy pickins for the ice anglers. As a result, sunfish (panfish) are suseptable to drastic overharvest by humans. I can’t speak for Lakes…and obviously the river is similar in some aspects….Habitat is the #1 factor in determining fish populations. Enough rambling…you get my point.

Hello, I sure would like too see a picture of that 100 lb. catfish. Thank you , drlove63

Not sure which one you want to see…but here is the current world record Flathead. Nice fish huh?

I would bet that both Jered and Steve are correct depending on the body of water we’re talking about.

I’ve grown up on the lakes in central MN. I’ve seen lakes in the winter and summer give up more sunnies than I thought possible and the next year, those 1/2 lbers are back again. On the other hand, there’s a handful of lakes that only produce “quality” sunfishing once every 5 to 10 years. To me, quality is at a minimum 3 to a pound sunnies.

Again, in my personal opinion (no written data) the biggest problem with the central MN lakes is the chemicals/run off from the farmers and the lawn chemicals from land owners that encourage the choking effect of weeds and alge. I would guess this would have the same effect of sedimentation in the rivers.

Steve, with the wing dams and “channelization of the sippi, wouldn’t that lower the amount of sediments compaired to a river left to Mother Nature?

Back to lakes again, the DNR planted channel cats in one of our area lakes. I had a hard time understanding why they would do this, and never got a good answer as to why they did stock them. I’m sure they knew what they were doing…(I hope), but because at least 8 of the area lakes are connected by creeks, we now have channels cats in many of them. As a avid sunfisherman until about two years ago, I can’t tell the differance in my frying pan.

Ps Slop Bass, do you have the info on were she was caught? MO river?

She’s poster material!!

The HUGE Flathead was caught on May 14th 1998 (Elk City Reservoir, Kansas) topped the scales at 123lbs!!!!. Now heres the go-getter…..Ken Paulie caught this thing on a Zebco 33 reel, spooled with 12lb test line!?! Now just try to imagine that fight in the back of your mind!

This big blue came from the Mississippi River on Aug. 3rd. Believe it or not he was using spam for bait!! It weighed in at 116lbs 12oz. and toppled the old world record of 111lbs. This monster measured 62′ long and 38 1/2′ in girth!!

Theres a bit of controversy with the record flathead. Ken P. stated the fish didn’t fight much and was landed in anywere from “minutes” to 15 minutes. He caught it while fishing for crappies. The fish was verified “alive” but not “lively” by a DNR worker, for whatever that is worth.

That would be my luck! Like the golfer that calls in sick and gets two holes in one.
I would land a world record and it would be dead! Wouldn’t it be harder to catch a dead world record then a live one?

SB, you gave me some thoughts about spam and channels, but I can only eat it fried and cut thin. I’ll have to stick with cut baits.

Thanks for the info.

Here is the only cat I ever caught on Spam. I’ll never use Spam for bait again!

“Steve, with the wing dams and “channelization of the sippi, wouldn’t that lower the amount of sediments compaired to a river left to Mother Nature?”

Actually Brian, the channelization of the river is causing more sedimentation. The wingdams and in particular…closing dams, limit the amount of flow that goes through the backwaters. This causes a lot of the sediment to “fall out” of the water and fill up the backwaters. If the river was allowed to “freely” flow, a lot of the sediment would continue to move through. Now the bigger problem is not the channelization, but the source of the sediment…..the farming practices in the watershed upstream are the main problem. The less sediment that washes in the river….the less there is to filter out obviously. I think that answers your question.

You gotta stop doing this over my lunch hour! Gettin’ tired of wipin’ down the screen!

I love this. Where else can you have a midwinter catfishing discussion. I think the Army Corps of Engineers certainly should be rewarded for thinking they could control old man river. Sediment is bad. Just ask those folks in Louisianna who get to keep most of the sediment. I know I can impact the bream population right below my houseboat. I actually had to move 10 yards to be able to continue to catch plenty of bait.

Whiskerkev, sediment piles up behind your houseboat?

I would bet that the life of the folks in the ACE is getting more complicated as each year goes by. First the job was to keep a channel open for barg traffic and to slow/retard the flooding process. Now they have to know where they are going to dump the sediments that they dredge out of the channels and how both the dredging and dumping is going to effect the fish (cross out fish) the environment.

The last time I read anything about the Miss and LA, it was saying the sediment was bad but (to Steve’s point) the chemicals/fertilizers that were doing the most harm.

Does anyone know where the Mighty Muddy Mississippi starts getting Muddy? Seems like around Sartell shes pretty clear.

No sediments behind my houseboat. Two years ago I was able to catch lots of blue gills under my boat. Last year I caught plenty but late in the season I had to move over to catch my bait as quickly as before. So I do in fact know that I indeed impacted the Breams in that one small area. This in fact I know that I know unlike D Rumsfeld.

BrianK, according to my observations, the Miss. gets muddy somewhere north of pool 18.

If you took a trip on pool 2 to where the Miss and the MN come together I think you would get a pretty good idea of where the mud starts. MN river.
Fishing the Miss in northern MN this fall I could clearly see bottom in 3 to 4 feet of water.
Thank you for that last picture of the cat. Now I will never get to sleep.

I’ve heard the MN is the most polluted river in MN, so I guess that would make sense…and all the farm country it runs through. I know that out by Redwood Falls the MN river valley is at least 3/4 mile wide. Farm fields on both sides and it’s all black dirt…including the banks of the river.

‘spose I’ll have to do a search to see what the kitty fishing is like over there.