Cat Contest discussion for 2007

Im trying to figure out the cat contest for this year that will be hosted out of Moores Bait in Minneapolis. The contest are going to be similar to last year with measurements, photo, and immediate release manditory.

We will not be hosting a league this year unless we have a sudden change of heart… real soon. Although, there is nothing stopping us from possibly putting new twist into the contest this year that could make it more fun for anyone participating.

I am considering changing the contest payout to 75% on individual contest, and have the additional 25% payout at the end of the contest season for the individuals with the best combined scores over 4 events. I am planning to host 6 contest total(1/month). The *season* payout would happen at the end of the contest season, or the day of the payout for the last contest.

Crunchig numbers, the payouts would still be significant for individual events, and the season payouts would also be substancial enough to make these contest even more interesting than they already are. There might even be a big fish pay in each species for the end of the season.

I am in the proccess of talking to the DNR about a permit for these events, that would let more than 30 people participate per event legaly. I will see what they have to say, and what kind of expense the permit will be. If its reasonable, it will have to come out of the contest budget becuase we do not profit from the contest in any way.

The dates I am curently proposing would be the 1st Saturday of the month from May-October. This would make 6 individual events.

If anyone does not like any of the rules or procedures from last year, this is the time to speak up. I would like to have the dates and rules set in stone within a couple weeks. I will print up something that has all the rules after they are set, and they will be availble at Moores Bait along with contest registration forms.

Open for suggestions

Dave,

Sounds like a very Interesting format.

It sounds like a hybrid of a league and extended contests.

Just a couple points to clarify and or consider.

1. Hypothetically… If one wanted to forgo the seasonal cumulation, One could treat each individual event like the contests that you ran last year?

2. Would the entry fee be paid in for each individual contest or for the seasonal event?

3. What would your best guestimate be on an entry fee? (Individual and seasonal)

4. You would only have 4 nights count towards your cumulative total, but you could fish all six and use your best 4.

5. What Boundries are you considering. (Would be interested in having this possibly modified)

6. Honor system? are we to partner up with some on in the contest to have a witness. I guess I see the potential for cheating if someone catches a fish on some other night, other than a contest night?

7. Time line on duration of each individual event?

These are a few just off the top of my head. I will probably have more after thinking about this for a day or two.

It sounds like a great idea, if we can get some good participation.

I like the idea of a cumulative winner. I should have extra space on my website if we wanted some simple “league” site for posting results and pictures. I think Larry covered most of the questions and I can’t think of any others.

“Just a couple points to clarify and or consider.”

1. Hypothetically… If one wanted to forgo the seasonal cumulation, One could treat each individual event like the contests that you ran last year?

Yes, each contest would be treated as an individual, same format as last year.

2. Would the entry fee be paid in for each individual contest or for the seasonal event?

The Entry fee would have to be paid before each individual contest. If you choose to pay entry to more than one from the beginning, your presence for that individual contest would have to known before that contest night.

3. What would your best guestimate be on an entry fee? (Individual and seasonal)

Individual entry fee would be at least $10 per contest. $10 worked last year, but $15 might be better for the split payout. I would not be opposed to $20 per contest, but I need feedbacck from others. I want to keep these contest fun, once too much money gets into play, sometimes the fun element is hindered.

4. You would only have 4 nights count towards your cumulative total, but you could fish all six and use your best 4.

That is correct, only 4 nights would go towards the season total, this would allow more people to participate with busy summer schedules that cant make every event. Obviously, the more contest you enter, the better chance for a good season turnout.

5. What Boundries are you considering. (Would be interested in having this possibly modified)

I would like to start small for this event, I would like to keep the same boundaries as last year. It could be dictated by permit avail or limitations. The waters would include Mississippi Rivers pools 1 & 2 and its tributaries, and the Minnesota river from the confluence to the 35W bridge, I might extend this to Jordan if nobody is opposed, and its possible by permit if needed.

6. Honor system? are we to partner up with some on in the contest to have a witness. I guess I see the potential for cheating if someone catches a fish on some other night, other than a contest night?

The honor system has done well so far. We can make it neccessary to fish with another contest participant or provide some type of foul-proof security system. Maybe Moores Bait can provide a *Code Word* on the contest day and participants would have to write that word on a piece of paper and have the picture taken with that word? Silly, but it would be effective.

7. Time line on duration of each individual event?

I would like to extend the hours to 6 pm to 6 am. This is open for suggestion.

Sounds well thought out.

I’m okay with any amount in entry fee. $15 or $20.
I vote that we extend boundries to shakopee and or Jordan.
I like the secret code word in the picture issued that day, as a keep everyone honest.

Sounds cool, Dave. With the early and late ones, I might be able to participate!

I’m looking forward to this. I had a lot of fun fishing the Moore’s Bait Cat Contests last year and was looking forward to the Metro Cat League forming this year. The proposed contest format looks good to me. So far, I’m liking the “contest-league hybrid” concept.

I do think we should incorporate some type of safeguard against cheating this year. Cheating was not a problem last year, but with the possibility of new and more participants this year, we may need something in place to maintain the integrity of the contests. The ideas already mentioned (code word for the day of each contest, fishing with another participant) would be effective enough.

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5. What Boundries are you considering. (Would be interested in having this possibly modified)

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I vote to extend the Minnesota boundary up to the Shakopee launch. Thats A LOT of water between 35W and Shakopee. I would still consider this stretch of river “metro”, where if you go much further, you might as well go all the way to Mankato.

I was seriously considering adding pool 3 and the St croix to the boundaries too I still may do that if restrictions are added(1 line only).. but it depends how everyone feels about the boundaries.

I would like to extend the area considerably to get the maximum number of participants per event.

Whatever happens, the rules are going to be simple, fair, and they are going to be strict. Contest participant boats are not going to be able to carry non contest persons, all state regs will be applied, and if P3 is incorporated in, persons fishing the border waters will be allowed 1 rod.

The code word I think is a great idea and will make it very difficult for a cheater. Anyone breaking the rules will be disqualified for that event, and will be disqualified for season payout.. So if your going down river and see a porcupine boat, snap a picture.

It would be ideal to see an average of 30-50 participants per contest

I know you guys are chicken to fish against my Mendota monsters. Good idea Dave. I wish I lived closer.

The code word idea is a good one. But that means Bob and Dave would know the word ahead of time. Dave I trust. I am not so sure I trust that shifty guy Bob though! He’s always suspiciously nice when I go in there. I don’t trust any of you who are nice to me.

I did think of one question. With everyone using different scales of varying accuracy, would both devices be tested in the event of 2 fish being close in weight. Would we need a predetermined threshold? And how would we test the 2 to determine which fish was heavier? I don’t remember if there were any close calls last year. But with more people, the more likely a pound or 2 is going to be the difference between first and second. On big fish, I figure a lot of scales would differ in some cases by at least a pound.

Last year, the fish were scored by length (inches) + girth (inches). Weight was optional, but the official score would be the total of length + girth. I’m assuming that’s the way it’ll go this year as well.

Did I mention the FW gave me TWO 120 inch seamstris tapes for Christmas??

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Last year, the fish were scored by length (inches) + girth (inches). Weight was optional, but the official score would be the total of length + girth. I’m assuming that’s the way it’ll go this year as well.

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LOL, that’s right. I forgot I never caught any fish to enter!

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Did I mention the FW gave me TWO 120 inch seamstris tapes for Christmas??

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Is that so you can conform to the shape of the fish to get longer measurements?

I think it was mentioned last year to have everyone use the same measuring tool. Not sure if anyone actually uses tape measures, but it probably wouldn’t be a bad idea for everyone to use at least similar seamstress measuring tape. Just a thought.

I can’t believe this is the first i have been hearing of the seamstress measuring tape. That’s what I use. I can’t imagine how difficult a tape measure would be. When measuring the girth, it is the widest part behind the pectoral fins, no?

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Is that so you can conform to the shape of the fish to get longer measurements?

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That my friend is why I got the 120 incher!

Laying the tape down along side the fish measuring from the tippy of the schnoz to the tippy of the tail for lenght. And it’s really the only accurate way of getting a girth…unless fishing line ect was wrapped around the fish and then taped.

….I think.

It was mentioned last year about Moore’s having an “official” measuring tape that came along with each registration. Then everyone would be using the same measuring device. Something to think about…

* An official Measuring device*… I am all for it, but everyone is going to buy one. A 48″ ruler in a bright color would be ideal. Each person should have a FABRIC tape for taking a proper girth measurement. If the fish is longer than 48″, a photo should justify actual fish length(taken with fabric tape). Expect to pay a few extra dollars to buy this stuff for a one time purchase. I will state a price when I find a quantity of inexpensive measuring devices that fit the bill.

OK … NEW TWIST, PAY ATTENTION

Expanded Area I am proposing here…

Mississippi River Pools 1, 2, and 3 This covers the river from Coon Rapids Dam, to above the Red Wing Dam(Lock and dam #3), and all its tributaries(backwaters)

Minnesota River from Jordan to te Mississippi River confluence.

St Croix River from the High Bridge north of Stillwater(arcola?) to the Mississippi River confluence.

Taking border waters into the contest would require special contest rules. Only 1 line allowed for the contest. , regarless of what the law lets you use on that body of water.

This opens up a huge area for the contest on prime catfish waters, and allows more participants to fish a bit closer to *their home stretch* of water. Each of these waterways can produce very good fish.

The photos would have to be brought to Moores bait by 3 pm the Sunday following the contest, the contest payout would happen there-after. The “seasonal” payout will happen on the sunday following the last event following the last contest payout.

There will be a code word given this year at 4:00 pm the day of the contest. Call into the bait shop or my cell phone, there will be a few numbers provided to call in for the code word, we will have all contact numbers on hand and call people who dont call in for the “word”. There will be no problems for anyone to get the word.

After some discussion and number crunching, I feel it would be best to have the entry fee at $20 for each event. Does this seem reasonable to everyone?

AND BY POPULAR DEMAND

Entry fees would be payable over the phone, or by mail to Moores Bait. Credit cards over the phone will cost an extra $5, but its much cheaper thn gas to get there from 35 miles away! If the entry fee is $20, it would be $25 by credit card.. it cost Moores a few bucks to make the transaction, so I think thats very fair!

Another idea to consider.
I know we like to get together for the day after fish offs. But I can imagine it might be hard for all to make it, after every contest. I could see just the winners showing up, Not that its a bad thing. But it would be cool to get more people together to visit ect.
I think that we should have one big GTG at the end for sure. Barbeque or something. But do we want to try to come in every other month?
Not sure if that would be good idea as I’m thinking and typing this.
I live close so its not an issue for me. But if someone that lives a ways out. It could be tough to get in and claim thier prize. Could we do something where we could email pics in to count towards the contest?

Any one have any thoughts?

Every area specified is within a 45 minute drive. I think that is a pretty reasonable trip to potentially pick up a pay check. 30-40 miles tops?

Im all in for a end of the season gathering. Maybe have a gtg at Hidden Falls or something like that and fire up the grills and BS for a few hours.

Emailing in pictures is not going to work. I know it takes a little effort to get to Moores for some of us, but its an effort well worth it in a reasonable time frame.

Its all based on fun, but there is still some money involved. Any extra doors open for *finger pointers* is not a great idea.

There was only one instance last year where someone shown p too late(I felt bad) out of a combined 150(?) participants between different contest.

I can see the reasoning about not wanting to show up if you dont have a prize winning fish, especially for the guys who live 40 miles away, and I can see the reason why you would want the fish registered regardless for the season total. I think it would be best for people to sacrifice a couple hours of their time,and bring the photos in.. share some stories with everyone else hanging around.

I will think about it, discuss it, and listen to everyones thoughts on the issue. If something would create controversy, it cant happen. If there is a reasonable way to submit a fish to stand towards the SEASONAL outcome, and not the contest as an individual event.. maybe. I might be able to arrange with a couple outer area bait shops as a place to submit a photo within the same time frame. Any photo not submitted to Moores can not count towards individual contest results and payout.

I think to show up to Bob’s is one of my favorite parts of the contest. We then can have a little pizza and talk about the night. To many times it seem only the same ones showed up. I understand family obligations and such but I hope people will make a greater effort to show up at the “weigh in”.

I love the ideas that are being presented and am all for the extended area of fishing.

Hope you didn’t extend it to Jordan on my account. In my opinion, if you’re going to extend it that far you might as well include the entire MN and Miss, because frankly if someone decides they are going to fish St Peter or Red Wing….who’s to know any different, and would it even matter, catfish is a catfish.

There was some talk about adding a few more days to the Belle Plaine league, so I’m guessing I would only be able to maybe fish one or two of these so I guess it really doesn’t matter a whole lot what I think

Anyways, my thoughts would be to remember to keep it fun and not go overboard with calibrated scales, official measuring devices, secret code words, synchronized watches, etc.

No Darren, I didnt specify Jordan on your account. I specified Jordan because its within that *40 mile* range, and opens up lots of good water on the more remote regions of the Minnesota. I would like to expand the area to keep this as competitive as possible, or the potential to be competitive. As it stood last year, only a small section of the Minnesota was open, with very few desireable angling locations within that area. The Minnesota turns into a whole different fishery in Eden Prairie, and there are lots of angling opportunities that are greatly dictated by water levels.

I am attempting to extend the boundares to make this contest available to people in a larger area. Its much easier to fish most the night and only drive home a few miles vs 30 miles to fish a contest.

The password should work without a hitch. The password is about the only security measure we can use to keep people from submitting a photo from whenever they like. I liked/preferred the honor system.. but an extra measure to keep things *honorable* over an extended area.. it cant hurt, and will eliminate conflict.

[quote, so I’m guessing I would only be able to maybe fish one or two of these so I guess it really doesn’t matter a whole lot what I think

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Riiiiiight Dtro !!!!!
You’ll attend as many of these as it takes for me to top you out. You took first two too many times last year in my boat buddy. I’m looking for a little redemption after the second places in these contests. OH Yea new rule in my boat. No more flats on cut baits in my boat. Or I’m packing up and taking my boat home.

Dave, I asked the FW where she picked up the tape measuring devices.

They were under $4. at a Fashion Bug…and are actually used for quilting.

The lady there was trying to talk her into a reversable one…and the FW had a hard time not telling her and the audiance that it was for measuring catfish…

Sometimes I don’t think she’s proud of me…or at least my fish.

Anyway…I doubt my feelings are shared by everyone, but personally, if I lose because someones measurement was off by a half inch…oh well…there’s next time.

I’m just out there to have a good time and if the stars are right and I happen to place… cool…pizza’s on me!

I tell ya what, Shamu gave Larry and I a handy little measuring tape that is round and retractable with a vinyl (flexible) tape.
Best of all I think he said they were a buck or two.

I think Rory took a liking to Larry’s though and he never got it back

Im not worried abut where to find a fabric tape, they are under $1 at Wal Mart.

This measuring device thing is starting to become a hassle

I am most concerned with the contest boundaries, entry fee, and potential problem dates.

Other than that I have about a billion numbers to crunch, layout to figure out, permits to apply for, and a concrete set of rules to establish. I cant begin to explain how difficult it is to arrange these events and figure out payout on estimated participation. I dont know if there is going to be an average of 30, or 70 participants per contest. Paqyouts will be on a sliding scale and dictated by the number of participants in that particular contest. The seasonal payout will be determined by the combined number of participants in aggregate. Seasonal could be 3 paying places per specie, and it could be 10… it all depends on the overall participation, nobody want to stad in line for $1.63 for a 9th place finish overall

I have gone as far as I can to make this as simple as possible for everyone, even arrangng paying entry fee’s without being present.

I MIGHT even have Sherry make a web page with a list of rules and information, dates, etc.

I am not hearing much for comments which might suggest that the layout is set pretty well? When participants have a problem with something, they usually dont waste much time opposing a previous or present rule.

As for a measuring device, it isn’t like a scale where it can be off by quite a bit. So I don’t think we all need the same one. An inch is an inch, at least that’s what my GF says. Sorry, but I knew someone would have jumped on that one and next thing you know, the thread is way off topic.

The tape measure my girlfriend gave me was retractable like a tape measure. You just have to wind it in by hand.