Still stuck with the 7 inch bullhead Rule!!

  • steve-demars
    Stillwater, Minnesota
    Posts: 1906
    #1220073

    The 2007 Minnesota Fishing Regulations are posted on the MN DNR website. I quick looked through the rules to see if the 7 inch bullhead rule had changed – “It did not change”.

    I guess if they wait long enough they think we will just forget about it. I thought we were told last year that this thing would be implemented this year?

    Here is the regulation rule posted defining minnows:

    Minnows– Members of the minnow family, except carp and goldfish;bullheads, ciscoes, lake whitefish, goldeyes, and mooneyes (not over seven inches long); suckers (not over 12 inches long); mud minnows,leeches, tadpole madtoms and stonecats. (Note: border water regulations may vary.)

    dan-larson
    Cedar, Min-E-So-Ta
    Posts: 1482
    #520474

    Does the DNR actually measure your bullheads? I know I have been to Vado’s on several occasions and seen suckers bigger than 12 inches. They must be selling those as fresh fish instead of bait.

    dtro
    Inactive
    Jordan
    Posts: 1501
    #520505

    Read the section about the new regs at the begining. It clearly states that this law could change, so I’m guessing it’s still VERY possible and I would even say likely

    dirk_w.
    Minnesota
    Posts: 669
    #520507

    The DNR replied to my message about the rule change on 12-12-06. They stated they “hoped to get something done by next year”. I assumed that to mean the fishing year 2007. If that is what they meant I would guess that they wouldn’t be able to get it in the 2007 regs in time for printing. They still haven’t sent out the Request to Adopt Notice nor have they sent me anything else. I’m assuming Brian hasn’t got anything either? I guess we need to clarify what they mean by getting something done by “next year”. Anyway you look at it though, this isn’t good news. It’s difficult to tell whether they think they can lull us to sleep and then not pass this rule change or if they are being straight with us.

    dirk_w.
    Minnesota
    Posts: 669
    #520511

    News Flash

    We are still in. Check out page 5 of the manual. It states that they are considering the use of larger bullheads for bait in certain parts ot the state!!!!!!

    dtro
    Inactive
    Jordan
    Posts: 1501
    #520512

    Regulation Changes That Could be Implemented
    • Opening lakes to winter trout fishing in Aitkin and Hubbard Counties.
    • Discontinue minnow harvest except by permit in the Cedar River
    watershed to protect slender madtom.
    • Night bowfishing allowed on selected water bodies from June 1 to
    August 31.
    Allow larger bullheads to be used as bait in certain areas of the state.
    • Additional transportation and packing requirements.
    • Legalize some multiple hook configurations.
    • Discontinue muskie fishing in December.
    • Changes in opening dates for South Dakota border waters.
    • Change northern pike bag limit on Canadian border waters.
    • Change Basswood Lake on Canadian border to all inland season and
    limits.

    dtro
    Inactive
    Jordan
    Posts: 1501
    #520513

    timmy
    Posts: 1960
    #520560

    I find it amazing that I, as a WI resident, can fish out of your boat with 3 lines and use most anything for bait, as long as it is legal length to possess – but you, as a MN res, can only fish two lines and are so strictly regulated to bait choice and size. That is two states really working together!!

    Tim

    Brian Klawitter
    Keymaster
    Minnesota/Wisconsin Mississippi River
    Posts: 59992
    #520638

    I believe Linda from the DNR said at one point it wasn’t going to be changed when the laws came out, but it could change yet by April or May. I’m not at my home computer to check the emails.

    But I’m pleased as a flathead in a bullhead tank that there’s mention of it!

    Timmy, I inquired about that when Dirk and I were at the DNR office in MN. The unoffical response was that it would be easy to have the same laws…if WI would change to MN’s…or MN would change to WI’s. Not going to happen…well, maybe it could happen if enough MN and WI residents felt it was a task worth contactiog thier DNR’s about…and congressmen…and senators… Personally, I’m happy to use only two rods…otherwise I would be respooling another reel with Power Pro!

    timmy
    Posts: 1960
    #520722

    And another thing……I find it amazing that the two states can not even agree on an opening weekend date for the ‘croix. The MN opener is a week before WI. Technically, as a WI res, I need to follow WI laws, so even though the MN opener happens, AND I have a MN license, I still can not fish!?! Unreal.

    It is a real shame that all of the people that know how to run the government are too busy hunting, fishing, and trapping!

    Tim

    Mudshark
    LaCrosse WI
    Posts: 2973
    #520737

    Quote:


    I find it amazing that I, as a WI resident, can fish out of your boat with 3 lines and use most anything for bait, as long as it is legal length to possess – but you, as a MN res, can only fish two lines
    Tim



    If your on the MN side of the channel you still have to follow MN’s laws….you will be fined for 3 lines.

    timmy
    Posts: 1960
    #520756

    Quote:


    If your on the MN side of the channel you still have to follow MN’s laws….you will be fined for 3 lines.


    Yup. It states in the WI regs that you must follow the rules for the state in which you fishing.

    I asked this exact question to the MN DNR hotline – and was told that since I am a WI resident – I must follow my states laws when in WI. I can fish border to border under my WI license and must follow WI laws until I cross the border – then follow MN laws. A MN res needs a MN license and must follow their laws. A MN res can not fish in WI waters and follow the more liberal restrictions – that is spelled out clearly in the regs.

    I also asked a WI warden this question regarding numbers of lines allowed. I asked him how many lines we could fish with from my boat if it were just me and a MN resident. He stated 5. I could have three, the MN res could have two while on the WI side.

    What is the “border” legally defined as? Is it the theoretical center of the channel?

    Tim

    Mudshark
    LaCrosse WI
    Posts: 2973
    #520897

    Yep….there is a border line….sometimes it’s in the main channel and sometimes it’s not.

    I think almost any map you get shows the line..maybe even the road maps do..don’t know for sure.

    But I’m real carefull over there…watch out for the treble hook law too!!!

    Brian Klawitter
    Keymaster
    Minnesota/Wisconsin Mississippi River
    Posts: 59992
    #521034

    After seeing what I was up too one night around 11…the two state park officers told me that I would have better chance at a cat if I used 3 lines. I said I can’t because I was a MN resedent…and they replied..we only enforce WI laws….

    To quote a number of people…”clear as mud”.

    Whiskerkev
    Madison
    Posts: 3835
    #521077

    A border water is the line. There is no magical down the middle of the channel crap. If you are a Wisconsin Resident you must follow their laws. Minnesota residents follow Minnesota laws on the border water between them. Usually the train tracks are the landmarks to pay attention to.

    Mudshark
    LaCrosse WI
    Posts: 2973
    #521101

    I copied this right off page 54 of the WI reg. book
    Quote= Wisconsin residents need a Wisconsin fishing license and Minnesota residents need a Minnesota license to fish in these boundary waters. Residents of
    other states need a nonresident license from Wisconsin or Minnesota. Regulations on these waters may differ between states. You must obey the regulations of the state in which you are fishing unquote
    If your on the MN side of the river..even between the tracks you must follow MN’s regs
    Ask my buddy who was issued a citation-by a MN officer- for using a treble hook on his tip-up in the bay by the I90 bridge.
    Like I said…I’m real careful on the river.

    dtro
    Inactive
    Jordan
    Posts: 1501
    #521122

    Quote:


    You must obey the regulations of the state in which you are fishing
    If your on the MN side of the river..even between the tracks you must follow MN’s regs


    How on earth can they determine in which state you are in?

    Mudshark
    LaCrosse WI
    Posts: 2973
    #521134

    Well if your fishing onshore

    I tried to link to a map but no go……..Tried this.

    I just Googled LaCrosse and….

    One map shows the borderline…It’s accurate too…notice how the state line goes down the West channel instead of the Main channel……

    They must have the GPS also.

    Like I said….careful

    ggoody
    Mpls MN
    Posts: 2603
    #521163

    Can someone clarify this? Is it the middle of the channel or not?

    I know we have big post on this somewhere.

    Brian Klawitter
    Keymaster
    Minnesota/Wisconsin Mississippi River
    Posts: 59992
    #521239

    Here’s some clarification!

    I called Madison’s DNR office a few years back…they said they go by the line down the river.
    The same day I called the MN DNR and they said there is no line down the river…as I said, “clear as mud”.

    PS Had I been a WI resident with a valid WI license and ticketed by the MN DNR for following the WI rules…I would have made the trip to St Paul….as I know the judge would have said….WHAT?

    steve-demars
    Stillwater, Minnesota
    Posts: 1906
    #521246

    We have this same discussion every year about this time. There seems to be several interpretations of what the regulations mean. In my humble opinion, there is no arbitrary line down the middle of the river or along any channel. This is how the definition of border waters is stated in the 2007 Minnesota Fishing Regulations and it is almost exactly the same in Wisconsin’s regulation:

    “BORDER WATERS–WISCONSIN–MINNESOTA
    The seasons and regulations listed below apply to the following waters: Mississippi River (downstream of Prescott, Wisconsin and all waters between the Burlington Northern [Wisconsin] and Chicago Milwaukee [Minnesota] railroad tracks), Lake Pepin, St. Croix River, Lake St. Croix, St. Louis River, St. Louis Bay, and Superior Bay.
    Daily and possession limits are the same.”

    The way I read this definition the border waters downstream of Prescott, WI lie between the two railroad tracks. On the St Croix and the other rivers noted in the regulation the borders waters are shore to shore. As long as you are between the two railroad tracks or anywhere on the St Croix or other waters, you are fishing legal border waters and as such you must follow the rules of the state in which you are licensed.

    In my opinion, if you are a Wisconsin angler and you have your boat nosed up on the MN shore but you are still between the railroad tracks – you can have 3 rods out the boat and you can be fishing whatever bait is legal in WI. And if I was from WI that is exactly how I would fish the Mississippi River.

    But if you WI guys don’t want to take advantage of your full legal fishing rights, go ahead. Unfortunately, I live in MN and I don’t quite have the liberal fishing rights you do. But I am fishing that stretch of river shore to shore and using everything that I am entitled to.

    You don’t need to harangue me about that quote about following the regs of the state in which you are licensed. I interpret that to mean that when fishing on border waters if I have a WI license I follow WI rules and if I have a MN license I follow MN rules . In my opinion, that quote has nothing to do with defining the boundary lines between the states. It has nothing to do with staying on some side of an arbitrary boundary line running down the main channel of the river. The boundary was established in the definition of border waters, not in that quote about following state rules.

    But who the hell am I. That is how I apply my personal interpretation to the Minnesota and Wisconsin fishing regulations. Bounce this interpretation off your local DNR Conservation Officer and see what he thinks. If you get a ticket – hire an attorney and see how he interprets it. If it goes to court, see how the Judge interprets it. Who knows, maybe you could run it even farther up some appeals court chain. Let us all know how it works out.

    Brian Klawitter
    Keymaster
    Minnesota/Wisconsin Mississippi River
    Posts: 59992
    #521254

    Quote:


    harangue


    ???
    Steve, this is the cat forum…for my ease of understanding please try to use smaller words!

    I agree totally…but then again, I don’t count either…it’s what the CO believes…then the judge…ect.

    I do find it humorus that a number of DNR from both states can’t agree…which might be a good argument to have the laws changed to one or the other.

    dirk_w.
    Minnesota
    Posts: 669
    #521266

    Needless to say If I were an out of state angler thinking about fishing the WI/MN border waters I know which states license I would not buy….and stay at Evertts so you don’t cross over a border and cause yourself a bunch more headaches

    Mudshark
    LaCrosse WI
    Posts: 2973
    #521358

    Well I guess I’m sorry if I “harangued”( I agree Brian,,,,took me a few minutes to SPELL it ) anybody on this….
    I was just my attempt to save someone from being sited that’s all.
    BTW my buddy DID fight his ticket …and lost.
    The judge told him that there are defined state border lines….and the reulation was specific.
    And now I know these lines..and adhere to them…just to be safe. There is one thing I know…I do NOT have the money to hire a lawyer for an avoidable ticket.
    Besides…using one less line and slapping a spinner blade to a treble hook is no biggie to me.
    As the old saying goes….To each his own.

    hanson
    Posts: 728
    #521364

    Us poor Minnesotans HAVE to obey the rules & regulations of Minnesota when fishing on the border water.

    We can’t even buy a WI non-resident license to fish the border water even though many of us would sure love to.

    So with that said, regardless of what side of the river I am on, I have to follow what my MN regs book tells me.

    As a MN resident, I can even drive around to Everts (WI) and launch my boat and fish as a Minnesota resident following the MN regs. Same with ND, I can launch my boat in Grand Forks, ND and fish the Red River as a MN resident with a MN license.

    The MN/WI border water is not handled like the Canada/MN border water. When fishing the Rainy, you better not cross that imaginary line down the center of the channel.

    timmy
    Posts: 1960
    #521383

    Quote:


    To quote a number of people…”clear as mud”.


    Brian – The only thing more clear is that dirty water your catching the kittys in!

    Tim

    Brian Klawitter
    Keymaster
    Minnesota/Wisconsin Mississippi River
    Posts: 59992
    #521624

    Mudshark, Nothing to be sorry for…

    I would like to know about that ticket..sometime.

    But I have to run…

    Timmy…

    Mudshark
    LaCrosse WI
    Posts: 2973
    #521869

    Well Briank……I HAVE been called a sorry s*^ of b*#^# a couple of times errr……nuff said

    Just to answer the question of just where “the line” is………I found this attachment from MN.

    Notice (in my pool anyway) ) it’s not allways the channel.

    http://files.dnr.state.mn.us/rlp/regulations/fishing/pool8.pdf

    Last one from me on this subject…….tight lines guys!!!!

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