Thoughts to ponder…

Well hell, I just had this all typed out but didn’t have a subject heading so I lost it. Let me see if I can get some of it back…

I’ve been having bad luck lately, and when that happens the old noggin gets to mulling over old questions about flathead behavior. A couple of them are:

Do flatheads really relate to current primarily, or is it just fishermen that relate to current? Could it be that when flows are as low as they have been, flatheads are just dispersed from their normal logjams and structure because they’re not as pinned down by current? In side channels and backwaters are the flats still around, just less predictable? Do we catch them most consistently in spots with current because in those spots we still know where to fish? Or… do they actually congregate in current? If that’s the case, shouldn’t low-flow and hot water be the ideal time to find stacked-up cats and really nail them? (not my experience, unfortunately).

It could be that in low flow they’re free to roam and can hang in close proximity to baitfish. Of course most baitfish have oxygen demands that tend to put them in current during these times so the point could be moot, but what about weeds? Lots of baitfish relate to weed cover – could it be that flats can hang in proximity to weedlines and cruise them when they feed much like northern do? Or do northerns dominate that particular niche? I’ve seen flats cruising over submerged weedbeds on Lake Onalaska and have even caught them on weedlines in the lake, but rarely.

And… do flatheads feed more as water temp rises, or could the relationship be less direct? They’re cold blooded, so logic would dictate that they have higher metabolic demands as temp rises, and would have to eat more to stay even in hotter water. But they also have higher oxygen demands at a time when the water can carry much less oxygen. Could their foraging behavior be limited during high water temp periods to avoid oxygen debt. I know they seem to feed like mad during brief time periods in the fall, but they’re also concentrated. Could it be that they actually “put on the feedbag” in the fall because its the most efficient time to put on weight, or is it just that they’re congregated in the fall and this gives the illusion that they’re feeding like crazy? Again, if they’re feeding more in the warm water, and concentrating on current – this should really be prime time for catching cats if you can find them, but this is definitely not my experience. It is, however, conventional wisdom that cats feed the most in the heat of the summer (although this could be because “cats” in most people’s vernacular means channel cats and most people use stink baits which actually work best in hot water because of how well their odor diffuses).

I could go on, but that might be enough to ponder for now…

Any thoughts?

Personally, I am more inclined to believe in the last paragraph. No, not the “Any thoughts” paragraph! I might be talking out of my butt, but I believe that oxygen levels are also tied to metabolism just as much as water temperature. I wouldn’t doubt if they didn’t go into a mini dormancy, feeding much less frequently and not venturing far. From some reading I did a couple of days ago, low oxygen levels stunts or slows the growth of fish. There is a relationship between oxygen levels and growth. I would suspect that would be do to slowed metabolism. So I would extrapolate that in brief periods of high stress would have a similar effect.

I can also see how fish would scatter following the roaming baitfish and how neither would relate much to current during these times.

Maybe with the air temperature dropping, more of us can get out more and someone will pick up on some new pattern. Whether they disclose it or not will yet to be determined!

Matt-

Good post! I’ve been asking myself a lot of the same questions recently and doing a little head scratching as well.

The flats have definitely not been where “I” think they should be.

Last friday night was a good reminder of that. I can’t specifically describe the location without giving it away but it was an area with good current, a couple deep holes nearby (15′ & 20′), and we were fishing up from the holes in front of a rocky point that the current was slamming into and deflecting across. Good stretches of this river have very little water, couple feet at best so 20′ is really deep considering the rest of the river. We fished until 1:30am with 1 little 3lb flathead and not much else for activity.

I’ve fished too many of these “prime” looking areas lately with nothing to show. So I’ve come to believe the flatheads are not where “I” think they are. Next time I just may park my chair on shore without giving this too much thought and start fishing.

The only thing I can figure is we needed to fish all night on Friday. A few friends of mine that routinely fish this general area are getting good action in the morning- 4am, 5am, 6am.

All anyone can do now is speak in theory.. nobody is doing very well consistantly, and I dint think there is enough success to compare notes to make an accurate *whats working now*. Where I am at, I am stuck between 2 very different rivers. Both are very low, and only one has any significant current. The river that has significant current has better catch rates right now, but its spotty. Being low, but still having some current allows people to fish the traditional structures and there is still some success. The other river which has no substancial current anywhere is proving to be very difficult. The only spot with any consistent success is in locking areas when the lock begins to drain and creates a flow. A bite will start and last as long as the lock is draining and shorly there-after. The fish bite is very finicky(even channels) with lots of short strikes and they are gone. The bite last for 10 minutes and almost nothing happens inbetween locking cycles.. so if there are no boats your in for a long night.

The only thing I can make of the situation that makes any sense is the fish are awaiting dead and crippled baitfish in the flow from the locking area. Stressed baitfish from the locking cycle would be *flushed* every time the lock drains providing an easy meal the fish wont(cant?) pass up.

This could be tried on a much larger scale by finding a likely hole in the river where the fish are believed to be concentrating. If there is any flow at all, the current should provide dead and dieing baitfish on a regular basis, and the fish wouldnt have to go anywhere to feed… it would come to them. Any place there is a washout our hole that the current is funneled into a precise area of that hole should be productive if my theory is even close to correct. The very slow current should allow the water to stratistfy(sp?) and the water should be cooler on the bottom which will lower the metabolism of the fish which should help the fish tolerate the lower oxygen levels, and at the same time, the current will carry dead baitfish to them(free lunch).

Half of the question right now is probably choice of bait. I know last year in August I was fishing primarily cutbait and having good success on flatheads where live bait was far less than productive. Some types of bait were way more productive than others, with suckers being the worst.

If the current is bringing the fish more than enough food in their daytime haunts(lots of dead baitfish n this hot water), why would the fish be inclined to hunt for food at traditional feeding time when all they have to do is open their mouth where they are already at?

The fish are out there somewhere and they are eating.. they have to eat with their metabolim being so high. Obviously the fish are doing something different than the norm, its up to us to try to find the fish and put what they want to eat in front of them… they arent coming to us.

I think the trigger at this time of year is finding bait fish. Matt’s comments about the flats not being pinned down by current may be right. With the high water temps and the low current flow I think the flatheads focus is more in search of food than cover. His metabolism is higher and he is hungrier and wants to eat. I think the flats are looking for the buffet line and less concerned about the logjam. We have seen nice fish caught by guys trolling during daylight hours.

This year’s hatch of shad just started getting active. I am starting to see large pods of new shad. These are small baitfish (2″ or so) that the flats may not be chasing but these schools of bait are being chased by everything else. I think the flats may be interested in the everything else. I suspect that the flats will be eating the larger fish which are following the bait. So the ticket is locate the bait, locate the feeding locations, and fish the same location for the following flatheads.

I have one spot which is a long inside bend sandbar below an island. The outside bend has some current, some deep water and some good cover. I’ve been fishing the cover and the deep water with current and not having any luck. All the while I am fishing this structure, the white bass and everything else is hammering the small shad all along the inside bend sandbar in probably 6′ of water and less.

My plan is to set up right in the middle of that buffet line and dangle some bullheads for the flats to find as they start to feed. The place is one long line of small fish being eaten by the next size larger fish. I’m hoping the flats have joined the line of bigger fish looking for supper.

Good post Matt I have started to try weeds. We tried a spot the other night with a good series of springs running into a nice set of weeds! Theres plenty of bait there and this is the best set of weeds within a mile plus but we didnt get a nibble. I plan on giving it another night with a few different options for bait but next on the list is some deep water.

I thought it was slow a couple weeks ago but now it has been extreamly slow. It sure does get you thinking. It may take something different than out standard way of fishing. Floats or jigin ??? Has anyone tried these. I know some great deep runs that have always held fish but never ran jigs thru them to see if it would trigger a bite.It could be the same with the way people used to always assumed how eyes fed. I remember my grandpa being blown away from catching lots of eyes and nice ones one day at my cabin crusing the open water trolling cranks. They all never thought you would catch fish in the middle of the lake catching eyes 4-5 feet down so never tried it and alot of times when we think this we dont have any confidence trying for things for very long. I have thought about dedicating a couple week to jigging and olny jigging for cats.

You will tell us how it goes? Or are you a tease?

It would be nice to figure out what they would be feeding on. Bream in beds or the big shad in shallow coves when they spawn repeatedly throughout the summer? It seems like they would go after something that kept returning to the same place rather than open water, solitary fish. Do fish go more strongly nocturnal in the bright sun of summer? Do they care about depth the same as they do the rest of the year? I don’t know how much energy they need to feed they are camo and they just huff food in or that is how I imagine it. I dunno nothin, just ideas to think about.

Way to get the gears grinding Matt!!!
I have to wonder at what point to the flats start getting lethargic in the warm water. With temps getting in the upper 80 and close to 90s do the fish hit a point where they turn off or slow way down? Sure the metabolisms could be high but with excessive heat I would have to think that it affects them just like everything else.
thanks
larry

Last night I made it out with hanson and Carl(mrkeb?) during the rain and for a period of time after the rain(between storms).

The bite was decent immediately around 7 pm when I got there. Flatheads and channel cats were both biting well with channels taing everything from cut anything to live bullheads, and the flatheads seemed very perky and were taking the bullheads regularly with plenty of aggression.

The area we were fishing was in a locking area, there are also a couple of major storm drains that dump into the river. The mass flow of cooler water really seemed to turn the fishing on for all species. The day before yesterday you couldnt buy a bite(hot and no boats to get locks operating), last night you couldnt avoid a bite. Fish were rolling everywhere.

I can only assume there was lots of food getting washed out of the storm drain. We even seen a live frog come shooting out of there. Carp swarmed in the area after the water got flowing hard and settled and were feeding on the surface for hours, a guy fishing a jig had no problem getting a mixed bag of everything with a fish on every few minutes.. the evening before in the heat a jig wasnt working either.

We can skeptisize(is that a word? ) all we want, but something with the cooler weather and rain, or a combination of both realy turned the fishing on like a switch. I noticed more flow coming over the dam also. I am sure it wasa combination of everything, and I wouldnt doubt the water temps dropped more than 5 degrees in the slack water area we were fishing.

I just about went out last night also. There are some real nice washout areas down here that are natural and man made I checked one from shore and man was it spitting some water. I should have brought the new rod down to break it in

So taking into account Dave’s report, I would think it has more to do with the cats becoming dormant than being scattered. Whatever it is, lets just hope this lasts and there is rain in our future. We have some time to make up for this last half of summer.

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So taking into account Dave’s report, I would think it has more to do with the cats becoming dormant than being scattered.

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I think so too – mainly because I snagged a 33 pounder by the tail with a regular flathead setup not long ago. I just went to move my bluegill a few feet and somehow stuck it into the cat’s tail. That bluegill had been lively and thumping like crazy and this brute was sitting right next to it doing nothing. That’s kind of how I interpret it, anyway.

Shad pods, I’m originally from Hawaii(don’t ask parents new jobs thing) here on P8 La Crosse Swift Creek area the pods are huge I remember from fishing the Pacific you find the bait you find the predators eating them and so far its true I’ve caught everything from jumbo gills, crappies, smallies, lgmouths of all sizes, and some smaller cats but nothing too big, the area I would think would be great for bigger cats, deeper water considering its a slough area the buffet water is 3-5′ but which lays a short distance from 30’+ water with decent flow from two different channels coming through the area, I’ve dumped bullies, gills, cut into areas I see as good cat hab but nothing of interest has happened, water temp has to really be screwing with them. Another thing I’ve castnetted(left over from Hawaii) on the pods of shad they seem to be in the 2-3″ size range. Sure hope this rain stays with us for awhile.

I think I might have some more insight on the current bite. This was a good topic and it shouldnt be forgotten this soon anyhow..

Today I witnessed a 40# flathead around noon caught on dead shad(fresh). Recent reports, and the recent contest all have one thing in common.. daytime/daylight fish. I have heard of countless early morning fish, and all kinds of stories from unknown aglers on the water of big cats being caught in the daytime hours very recently. So we have people drownin worms, and any other type of bait out there(including artificials) taking nice cats during th day.. most of us couldnt buy a regular bite at night lately, and when they do, most are small.

Could this difficult bite simply be a shift in active feeding time? Our fishing this evening supported this possible theory.. we got out around 7 pm and the bite was pretty much done at dark.

Somebody please make some sense of this.

I don’t think the full is helping the night bite. In the short time I have been chasing them, the full moon usually signals a decent day bite. I wonder if a full moon might stagger their feeding throughout 24 hours more or if they actually do bite more during the day with a full moon?

Maybe I am just talking out of my again?