Excellent post FD, this reason is exactly why it would behoove a person to be extremely careful with productive Flathead spots…these aren’t channel cats or crappies!!!! Show one person…they show one person….they show a meat-hunter…. 
Jason.
CA…I wasn’t working on my PCness…this time 
.
Just that in reading the first post…and because I’ve fished with Mr. FisherDave…I knew he didn’t have a problem with folks keeping “some” fish…I was looking for clarification.
Once the “rest of the story”
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I have fished with this individual before.. He is solely a meat fisherman.. every fish he catches within what he see’s as a keepable size will be harvested..
came out…
It’s every Flathead Fishermans Nightmare.
FisherDave predicament is…once a fellow finds an area…how do you get him from stop fishing…or taking them home. He has a right to take home two flats a day with only one being over 24 inches and it’s property we all own…Education? If we’re lucky!
Quote [Anyone want to see *Fisher Dave* get furious?… that will do it. I dont ever want to see that fisherman in any of my spots again.. that is the equivelent of someone keeping a 14″ Muskie.. it just shouldnt happen period]
We fish pool 12 with an Illinois fishing liscence. A $13 sports (commercial) liscence. We are allowed 50 unattended hooks a night. Not to mention the real commercial guys running 800 hooks a night. 50 unattended bank poles can catch some serious fish with no creel limit to flats. I don’t agree with the law however I do like to run one maybe two for enjoyment. Catching a catfish on a fishing pole here is tough because of the overharvest. I showed someone the bank poll technique and one week later they were bragging about 50lbs. of fillets. Yes FILLETS! 42LB. flat being the biggest fish. I am witness to what bank poles can do to a fishery on the Pecatonica River there are literally layers of bank poles given the rise and fall of water exposed all year round. It makes my stomach sick not to mention it ruins the natural feel of the river. I promise one thing I will never show anyone how to bank pole again. I do keep some fish but from recent experience the 15lb. flat we ate tasted like crap in comparison to some smaller flats that I have eaten in the past. The meat was like string cheese instead of being flakey. Would I like to see the law changed, sure I would there is more enjoyment and satisfaction out of landing a fish like this on a fishing pole. But good luck here. Another example is I pulled my trot line one morning and a series of hoop nets came up with it. I had nothing on my line but the hoop nets were loaded. There are boats here harvesting 1000lbs. of fish a day, the locals claim that there will always be plenty of fish to go around but in the same sentence complaining they did terrible last night and always blame it on the weather. Again $13.00 50hooks-a-night with no restocking program and the environmentalist want to spend $126 million on new buildings and more gas boats and officers to keep the gas motors from running in the backwaters. I hope to bring up some of these concerns and more at the Savanah meeting on the 21st at the House of events if this info is correct. Here is another big issue, they want more buildings and we can’t even get a phone# or information on the buildings that they have. Aside from driving 3hrs. I have been unable to find online, including calling the phone#’s listed online for the agency’s #’s. Call the agency’s like I did and get a laugh out of trying to get there districts#’s. And they want more buildings. Oh, and ask the DNR when you call were are the meetings for this $126million being spent. There reply to me was “we don’t know anything about it”. So I asked for the # to Savanah’s DNR office and they didn’t have that information. This is why I am going because they can’t manage the responsibilities that they have they don’t need more.
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This is why I am going…..
Becoming active and spreading the word is the best you can do. If you need any help from the out state folk…don’t be afraid to ask!
As it’s been said before…We’re all in this together!
I thought I had better quick chime back in here.. The way I had said things, makes Ralph look pretty guilty.. this is not the case. What had happened in his behalf was an honest mistake. He was doing the simple deed of trying to help a friend catch a fish and not be left out.. For the most part.. any friend that is there at a time of need, is a true friend. Ralph has been there many times for myself when nobody else was to be found when I needed the help.. that is a *true friend*.. he might be a pain, and have an *itchy* camera finger.. but he is as good as people get.
After re reading your post I could see why you posted the above…but haveing met “The Noober”, a thought like that wouldn’t ever cross your mind. He’s a guy that loves to fish them flats…and talk his rods into bending! 
You don’t have to worry about me Dave. Since I only want to feel a 20 to 40+ lb fish on the end of my line (and the fishing seems to shut down whenever I show up 
) No buckets in my truck.
dd
I know of this “meat hunter” in question. We’ve been friends and fellow outdoor enthusiasts for a number of years, but, unfortunatly, Dave is right. The guy is truly a subsistence angler, he fishes to eat. Not a bad guy, by any means, but he is a little ignorant and misguided. Not to mention thick-headed. Subtle hints do not work with him 
As far as this one individual goes, I will make it my duty to educate him on the benefits of CPR and selective harvest, and he will listen. Plus, I can turn him on to a few carp and sheephead spots and he can go nuts and stack his freezer with as much meat as he can get, I just won’t be attending any of his fish-fries in the near future
Don’t get us wrong, we do not consider ourselves the guardians of this particular spot or any others. And we are not against keeping a few for the table. We do, however, strongly encourage selective harvest and when it comes to these flats, we’re almost strictly CPR. We’re glad to see that the catters we’ve met and fished with from IDA (Briank, DARK30, drewsdad, mplspug, to name a few) are of a same mindset. They treat the resource with as much care and respect as we do and are all around good guys. As far as I’m concerned, you’re welcome company any given day of the week 
Manny
By the way…
Got to meet Mile 832 (Tim) down on the Mississippi monday night. Nice enough guy. Let me be the first to say that the rumors about him are not true 
All kidding aside, it was nice meeting ya, look forward to fishing with you in the future!
Slow night, but some fish were caught. I had a 15 lb’r grab my cut sucker around 2am, woke me out of my cat nap. Ralph missed a couple and Fisher Dave let a friend new to flathead fishing pick up a good run for him, but his 30 lb braid snapped clean on the hook set
Manny
I know I’ll be corrected if I’m wrong…but I believe if you have two flats in your “bucket” to take home, you are in violation of the fishing laws if you have any at home..the possission limit is TWO.
The DNR’s TIP line makes it very easy to be turned in when someone spots…OR think they spot a violation on the fishing laws.
Now I’m not saying to turn a friend in..without first pointing out that stacking a freezer is a violation…but it can be used as leverage to point out the benefits of selective harvest…or not fishing if you have your limit in the freezer.
Maybe just printing out this thread and showing him would help. I don’t know the fella, so I don’t know if that would help or not.
I liken this issue to the “Buffet Syndrome”. Remember when buffets first became popular? You couldn’t wait to get up to the buffet…filled your plate…ate fast…then rushed back to the buffet? It was like the buffet wouldn’t be there when you got back so you took as much and as fast as you could. Once you realized that this approach was kinda silly..you took your time eating and enjoyed the food much more…might even stopped before you felt bloated from eating too much.
It wasn’t that long ago that my freezer had more eye’s in it than ice cubes. I was brought up in an area that when the eye’s were biting…you kept them, went home…came back and took another limit. I attribute my change of attitude to IDA…the members that make up IDA rather. Why eat frozen when you can have fresh?
In any case, to FisherDave for posting this issue. It’s not only a flathead issue, every species has there freezer stackers…and to Manny for taking on the resposibility to talk “more directly” to your friend.
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rumors about him are not true
Yes they are!
Dave i agree, there will be no mistakes.He’s cut off on my list of fishing. You and Manny know all the problems he brings when we go out.It’s not to be mean, I just want to have a good time and learn the fishing ways of life.When with him it’s yelling and stuff does not go right.Plus it sets the mood in a negative way. I can’t be around this, and i won’t be around him.All my fishing skills i learned were from you and Manny.I’ll be dammed if i let him destroy that.Dave you were straight up with me last night and i respect you alot for that.And thanks for the remark on the forum it means alot to me.You are a great friend as well as Manny and i can’t loose that.And thanks for taking me out last night . It was fun catching that eye,it was cool to see you land that muskrat too.Maybe i should get that stamp and try that trout thing. I think Manny is up for that. Time to get some z’s it’s 5am and i’m dead.
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THE MEATEATER MIGHT TAKE A DIP,IN THE MIGHTY MISSISSIP 
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see you land that muskrat too
Ummm Dave? Tired of bullheads? New secret flat bait?
Took a night off from the cats.. gave them a break. Ralph and I took a focus on walleyes(and whatever) for the evening on a inner Minneapolis lake.
The water temps are spiking and the bite has slowed.. but Ralph managed a 4 lb walleye, and I hit a mid 30″ class Tiger musky.. it was an unexpected surprise shortly after midnight on a #7 shad rap… night time acrobatics are pretty cool in the bright moonlight.. nice fish for the walleye gear.. but Muskies cant hold up to a Flathead any day for a fight.
I caught a giant bullhead on a walley diver to boot earlier in the evening.. I’m sure it was in the 12″-14″ class.. that looked like one nice piece of bait.
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Not a bad guy, by any means, but he is a little ignorant and misguided. Not to mention thick-headed. Subtle hints do not work with him
Everyone telling him that was way too small, me getting furious and throwing my gear into the truck/boat including the 25′ Javelin toss with my fishing rod at the boat, the couple people that took the ride with me scrambling so they wouldnt be left behind.. I guess these were subtle.
I think the tension greatly mounted on the anger that was building between everyone after he keep insisting to crank his car radio with 80’s Journey love ballads, and once I finally took it upon myself to turn the sterio down.. he follows and changes the station and finds the 9 minute long Meatloaf song that nobody was enjoying… at full volume(wouldnt like it at any volume).
We ask him what are you doing? He says ” trying to wake everyone up ” .. so I guess fishing is supposed to be a loud obnoxious party when our lines are dangling below our feet? I believe James made the proper statement that evening… there is something wrong when you cant just sit there and enjoy the sound of the current from the river.
It was not a good night for me… unfortunately, it will plague my memory for some time.
I guess we all get bad nights of fishing one way or another.. we need to take the bad days with the good… I am due for a good day!
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and finds the 9 minute long Meatloaf song that nobody was enjoying
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I thought everyone loved Bat Out Of Hell?
“there is something wrong when you cant just sit there and enjoy the sound of the current from the river.”
I sure wish I could bottle that sound up and take it home 
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rumors about him are not true
Briank, am I to gather that your new friends don’t know anything about the rumors flying around about you? And don’t go denying them either – you know there true – you’ve been busted a number of times on IDA. Don’t make me go to photo shop and prove you wrong. 
See! Fisherdave!? I warned you guys about catfishgirl too.
Besides, I spoke with Mile 832 just yesterday and he confirmed all the rumors.
Ralph, Dave…you guys having any luck up in Urbania?
Its is slow.. but a few fish are still coming in. Every day a couple fish are being caught, sometimes a few. I havent seen a baby for a while. The largest in the last few days was just over 30, a few in the 20’s, and the others were 10+…. Lots of beat up fish… Lots of time fishing for the few we have caught. Daylight hours in the evening have produced as many fish as the night.
OOPS! IT’S NOT A CAT BUT I GUESS IT WILL DO.
TAKE A GUESS DAVE THINKS IT WAS ABOUT 40′ LONG?
THIS IS MY BIGGEST SO FAR…. 
[image]
[/image]
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THIS IS WHAT IM TALKIN ABOUT, IM RICK JAMES B=#*H
Way to go Ralph! Looks like you have enough cut bait for a month!
hopefully i can get one sat. night..blacksportsman wants to get out.i’ll talk to FD and see if he can take me.I know we need to get some bait.Who knows it might be a lucky day,since we took the night off on flatheads..
Funny looking catfish.. but yes it was a solid 40″ fish with a little change.. there was less than 8″ left of my 48″ handle on the landing net.
Tomorrow night I will be back after the cats.. but I dont know where I will be.. usual haunt.. maybe. I am going to make a few calls and see what the Minnesota is looking like, or possibly try someplace new… I have a pool 3 shore spot in mind that I believe Brian(could be wrong) claimed someone once caught a huge channel there when I questioned the spot.. the terrain looks the same as where we are catching our flats now.. just a different location.
I know this is an old thread, but I figured Jason’s response deserved a reply. I am a fisherman who, like Jason, has been cut by both sides of the setline sword. Since I have been a little kid, my grandfather, my father and I have fished the Pecatonica River several miles below Freeport. Up until I was about 12, our family and a few other locals were the only ones fishing this stretch of the river by boat. We fish mostly with rod and reel but set out about 80 hooks (40 for each of us) worth of bank poles. We consistently caught sizable catfish (channels, blues, and flatheads) and an occasional walleye. Fishing was always enjoyable as we would run lines about 6 times per year, usually picking up about 25 fish per trip. This was enough to ensure meals of fish for the family, create a lifetime’s worth of tales, and make those rod and reel trips much more relaxing. Fishing was always good, and the environment was serene. Trophy flatheads were released, as were spawning female walleyes. We have caught several flats over 30 lbs, and C & R’d all of them. All hooks were stripped of bait and hooks the following morning, so no fish were hooked during the week. All bank poles were tagged (as per state regulations) and spread out over miles of the river as not to fish any particular stretch out. Anglers that had lines downstream near some cabins knew us, and we knew them, and respected their lines. We sought not to exploit the beloved river, but to serve as it’s guardians. Over the course of my life, I’ve seen the river clean up considerably, and the number of game fish and variety of species drastically increase. Round about the time I entered junior high school, all of this began to change. Wave upon wave of Crackers (a.k.a. rednecks, hillbillies, etc) descended on this stretch of the river. Suddenly instead of being the only boat, or seeing one other boat all weekend, we saw three and four boats every weekend we went fishing. These guys had no respect, and found their sole purpose to exploit the river and it’s caretakers. Soon, we went from having the only set of bank poles on this whole stretch to being one of 6 sets of lines. These Crackers (sorry if I sound haughty, but these guys are worthy of this billing) set out lines, flagged with orange tape, every 100 yards or so on both banks for 3-4 river miles. They fished certain productive holes out, kept the big flatheads, and cleaned their fish on the banks when they were done. We came across a pile of fish heads one Sunday afternoon that had been left from that morning only 50 feet from the river bank. Also, they left bait and hooks on their lines. When we would fish the river during the week with rod and reel, we would come upon several dead fish that had spun themselves out of the water and died on these bank poles. This disgusted me to no end, usually, if we find these fish on these lines during the week, we’ll let them go now, rather than leave them to die. Upon seeing them again, we expressed our displeasure at their antics, which was greeted with a drunken barrage of swearing, and an invitation to fight. Interesting, that they choose to challenge a 16 foot boat with a 20 HP motor while they fish in a narrow 12 footer powered by a beat up motor with no cowling. At first we responded by just running down river far enough to elude these ruthless pirates, giving up our spots up the river to avoid any confrontations. However, each year it gets worse. Now, more of these types are fishing this stretch, and are every bit as bad, practicing the same ruthless habits. Some have even moved into the cabins in the downstream sections and are working their way up. My dad and I set out 40 bank poles and one two trotlines (80 hooks) this year, and ran lines once. On our way back up the river from baiting them, my dad and I caught one of these groups of crackers taking a fish off of one of our lines. They played dumb about it, pretending to be setting one of the 12 PVC poles they had in their boat, and my dad scolded them about it, so we figured we’d scared them. Instead, they had tasted the sweetness of thievery and chose to continue. My dad and I went home that night to catch my sister’s high school play. When we returned to run lines in the morning, we saw these guys coming up the river and they went past us with a boat full of fish. Both of us felt sick because we knew where they’d come from. These guys had 12 lines and must have had about 25 fish. As we worked our way down 4 miles of river, we found empty hooks on almost every bank pole. Only the ones that were well hidden under vines or overhanging trees, or tucked behind snags had fish on them. The trotline also had 6 fish on it. We came home that morning with 15 fish when we should have had 30. We were robbed! The stretch of river I fished as a boy, and had success for so many years is eroding away before my very eyes. Pole fishing is tough business now, as we don’t catch nearly as many as we used to. Certain stretches of river that were productive when I was a boy are fished out. This year we experienced a rebound as I think one or two of the boats blew up their motors during the low water. My family never has to worry about that due to three generations of knowledge about riffles, logs, and dead heads. In short, I know exactly how Jason feels, as now my trips up and down the river see 5-6 sets of bank poles. I can at least take the solace of setting a few free that spin up out of the water. Running set lines has long been a favorite family tradition, but it’s lost much of its fun. It is a lot of work for someone else to steal from you, or to ruin your time on the water by having to constantly deal with their drunken rudeness. We now fish almost exclusively by rod and reel. We hope to someday return to setlining if there are better regulations imposed. I think the best way to rid our waters of the trash that exploits them is to do a few things:
1) Require commercial fishing licenses for set lining. This would add expense and paperwork that most of these ignoramouses would be unable to handle. For those of us that truly can appreciate the value of set lining, the extra fee and hassle would be well worth the cost of taking out the (trailer) trash.
2) Add more game wardens. I haven’t seen a game warden on this stretch of river since I was a kid. Game wardens got rid of illegal boats and rid of illegal lines. Most of these guys have no boat registrations, no PFD’s, and probably no fishing license. Legal anglers like us have no problem seeing our friendly conservation officer. The biggest problem with my stretch of the river is no boat ramps are available for the warden to launch until he gets to Pecatonica. Most of these crackers launch their boats by hand because they are small.
3) Cut the number of hooks from 50 to 35. 70 hooks for a pair of anglers is more than sufficient to catch a good creel of fish.
4) Set a slot limit on walleye in this river. The walleye fishing is blossoming on the Pec. I think this is part of the reason we see all of the riff-raff. Before, people could take or leave cats, but walleyes are sought after like jewels. I’m so encouraged by seeing the walleye population spike, but I know it will go extinct if exposed to this pressure for too long.
5) Discontinue all use of hoop nets in the Pecatonica River. A few years back, my dad and I got commercial licenses to use hoop nets to catch buffalo from the river. Buffalo are vegetarians, so they are difficult to catch by conventional means. We needed buffalo to stock a relative’s pond to eat the vegetation. Grass carp had just been outlawed at this time. We set a few of these in the river and were shocked at the results. We pulled up nets full of fish, all kinds of fish. Cats, pike, walleye, carp and buffalo. All but the buffalo were released. One net had 5 true trophy flatheads in it, all over 30 lbs. One was so big, I’ll never forget it. The head was at least 18 inches wide. Both of my dad’s fists were in his mouth; he must have weighed 60 or 70 lbs. When dad went to release him he violently flipped his huge tail and took dad out with him. We both laughed about that, but it was testament to just how deadly these things can be in the wrong hands. There is no doubt some of these other guys have them and are using them. One or two of these well placed does more damage to a fishery than 100 bank poles or 10 trot lines. A river the size of the Pecatonica cannot handle these types of devices; there’s simply not as much water as the Mississippi or Rock.
6) Some other states have “River Caretakers” or “Guardians of the River” that are responsible for protecting a given number of river miles. These are usually old hats who have respected the river and know the river. They are responsible to keep it clean, both from landfill pollutants and human pollutants. They take samples for the DNR, read the river gauges for NOAA and provide recreational reports to local press agencies. They also work with conservation and law enforcement officers to protect against illegal activities. I for one, am in favor of this system being implemented in Illinois.
I know I’ve written a book here, and some may even find this offensive (excuse my harsh language about the aforementioned pirates). But you must understand that I’m very passionate about this topic. This river is a part of my fabric, and I still visit it at least 4 times a year when I can get away from work. I now live in central Illinois and have had a chance to fish almost every river in our state. I can tell you that the Pec ranks right near the top of every river I’ve ever fished. It’s narrow channel, abundance of structure, and cool deep water, make it a home to many trophy fish. Let’s not let those that don’t care about it destroy it.
First off, Welcome to IDA RiverRat81!
Taking the time to write your thoughts shows your passion!
The way it sounds (and I’m not framilar with IL laws) we need to send a few…maybe one MN law maker down there. Everything you mentioned isn’t allowed in MN or WI.
In fact if you read enough of the older posts, we are trying to relax the restrictions on the lenght of bullheads we can use in MN. Our DNR, with it’s many faults (as with any government or non goverment agency) as a whole, does a bang up job on protection OUR resources in MN. Granted we need more CO’s, but that’s every enforcement agency’s problem.
I’m really surprised that states like IL, MO and more I’m sure allow hoops and setlining. It seems to me that this would be more for putting food on the table…and lots of it. Is the economy bad enough that people would starve with out the products of the river?
I guess I don’t know for sure because I’ve never used the other methods you speak of…but it just doesn’t seem as enjoyable to me when a flat (or whatever) takes the bait. Coming back in the morning about pulling in the nights catch…just doesn’t sharpen my hook…so to speak. Same with down riggers…but I know many folk lov’em.
I would imagine it would be an up hill battle trying to change the laws when so many are doing it? Just nosey…but have to contacted the IL DNR about your concerns?
Last question, about what year did these “crackers” start showing up on the stretch of river you were fishing. I’m just trying to get an idea of the time line.
Again Welcome to In-DepthAngling and it catt’en board.
Make yourself at home!
Welcome Riverrat81. Great to have you with us. Please feel free to share and post all you want.
Sorry to hear about what is happening in your part of the fishing world. Its a shame that people become greedy, steal from other fisherman which is VERY dirty in my bookl when a fisherman steals from another fisherman. As fishermen you would think that we all would respect each other and live by the rules and laws along with the decentcy to play fair and protect our waters and shorelinmes. I see and feel your passion for fishing. Its too bad that others don’t understand the passion a true fisherman has for his sport and treats others and nature the way they should be treated.
Thanks, Bill
A welcome to you any any new members that find this great web site. Hang close and you will leran a great deal from the anglers that hang out here.
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