Closed Flathead Season

As spring is fast approaching, soon we’ll be hearing from the walleye fishermen of all the flats that are snagged on Pool 4 and other areas.

As FlatheadWI posted awhile back, I think we all agree that fishing for flats in their wintering grounds shouldn’t be happening because of the mortality rate and because snagging is against the law.

I questioned a respected catfisherman/IDA member about why we don’t have a closed season. His reply was that the DNR feels that we already have a law against snagging these or any fish. Why would we need another law?

I believe that there should be a close season for a couple reasons and I’m looking for your input on this subject. Although this would be a MN law, I’m seeking input for anyone that is interested in Flathead Cats.

There are some folks out there that believe flats will bite in the winter because they come to the boat with a jig in their mouth. Even though studies have shown that flatheads

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in their wintering holes. In most if not all catfishing circles it’s believed that this is actually a snag…in the mouth.

I believe that many fisherman feel that as long as there isn’t a closed season they can take a flat home even if it was snagged. With a closed season, they wouldn’t take the chance of taking a cat home. Once the fish is in the boat, how is anyone going to prove it was snagged?

As I see it, this change would have to take place with both the MN and WI DNR’s.

Please post your comments, thoughts and suggestions after taking this short poll.

Thanks!

I remember In-fisherman talking about targeting the big flats in their wintering holes awhile back. They were pulling out some very large flats all snagged in the mouth . They did say to release the fish because you could hurt the pop., but I agree there should be a closed season on these bruts. They are an awesome fish that deserve protection Imho. I’ve seen poeple snag walleyes and flats and say they caught them in the mouth , but like it was said what could be said w/ a closed season.

Thats news to me. So if thats the case some of those flats i’ve snagged in the mouth during winter accually got snagged deepin the mouth. Must have been sleeping with its mouth open.

Flatheads get purdy still in the colder water temps. No need to molest um and snagging is a no no. I don’t think we should establish a closed season on them but rather a catch and release only for certain stretches of river.

I would LOVE to see a C&R only for Flatheads on the Minnesota River! Whats so special about those Smallmouth anyway????

C&R! Now that’s a new (good)twist! Thanks Dark. What about the mortality rate of pulling up a sleeping cat out of 30 feet (or more) of water?

I was talking to a flat biologist from MO and he felt this wouldn’t hurt them because the were sleeping. In my book, presure change is presure change. I think it was Flatheadwi that posted he was talking to one that felt few survive.

You mentioned those “special bass” . The bassholes would know better, but the reason for C&R is to increase the size of the fish? Or is it to increase the number of fish because of habitat?

(I know, I’ll pay for the bh comment )

As far as hooking them in the mouth, there’s a few possibilities. One being that they were channel cats? (I’m not attacking your fish id abilities – I have my own problems there.) I’ve heard this before and then later found out they were channel cats. Another is that they do have their mouths open slightly…and lastly, I would bet a quarter that a very low percentage DO bite if the bait is in front of there noses. Many underwater studies have shown that “most” hibernating flatheads have silt on them and can actually be touched without them ever moving.

Brian,

Don’t worry they don’t read this post unless they are really really bored. Remember, (I feel like picking a fight) they hold tournaments while the fish they love to catch are vulnerable on the spawning beds. Then they rationalize it by quoting some kind of skewed “scientific” studies. I apologize for my earlier comment about your catfishing skill. You got a bigger one than I did last year.

I may olny be speeking for myself and the people I know but we have never kept a flat. I know some say they are pretty good at the right size and hopefully I get a chance to try one but I dont think any regs will keep flats from getting snagged or cought on accident and thats where the problem is at.I think Brians got the idea right just letting people know the danger it brings to the fish but more DNR regs means more rules that an officer cannot explain :smash

Most people are pretty good but one thing I dont like to see it the fish being mishandled especially the big ones

Briank you might be right on the channels, it’s been a while since I seen it. They sure were big fish though.
Duh C&R, I must have had a brain fart. I’d like to see it on the Cedar river in Iowa, the pop. has went down for some reason.

No eye-full you were right that in-fisherman was flatheads. And as far as the question of my mouth hooked fish being flats or channels trust me i know the difference. Not to mention a couple of these fish woud have destroyed the chanel cat state record. Not to mention the fact i think the infisherman staff know the difference. Not to mention the fact i got the idea and learned how to catch these fish from another fishing show (i dont rember what show it was though)that was filmed on one of my home waters. Now if you want to talk mortality rates of catch and release then maybe we should just quit fishing all together. Yes these fish come out of deep water in the winter, but don’t we all pull other fish out of deep water year roud and release them. Just last week i was watching Keith Kavajecz on The Next Bite pulling walleyes out of 80 to 90 feet of water and releasing them now that is a lot worse than 20 or 30 feet. So with that mantallity maybe we should put a closed season on walleyes in summer when the eyes go deep.

Hey Riverrat420!

Agian, I didn’t mean to attack your abilities to id a flat…but as I indicated earlier, I’ve found this to be true in a number of cases (from folks that don’t fish catfish at much at all).

I read your post a number of times and although you didn’t say it, a person could think that you fish for flats in their wintering holes. If so, I would like to draw on your experience.

In the last issue of In-fisherman, there was a little artical about wintering flats. If I recall, it talked about recommending a closed season. I don’t have the issue with me at this time, but I’ll look when I get home.

Fishing in 80 feet of water? What are your home waters?

I think it’s hard to compare flats to another fish (except sturgeon maybe) because of the population, size and their age to get to that size. I also believe releasing any fish that you know will die because of the depth they were caught at and continuing to fish for them (to release them…is wrong who ever the person is. Law or no law. It’s a waste of a resource.

Maybe I put a value on flats the others don’t see?

Bushman, if I hear what your saying correctly…If there being snagged or caught (your choice) out of deep water and they are going to die anyway…why have a closed season? Might as well keep the season open and maybe a few will be eaten.

Ps…I’m NOT in favor of more rules!

If you’ve ever seen the extended version of that In-Fisherman segment, the one that is on one of there videos, you can see that most of the flatheads were hooked outside of the mouth. In the pectoral fins, etc… Some fish they diliberately hide where the fish is hooked.

I have also seen another small time Wisconsin fishing show where the host got a hot tip from a friend about winter flatheads on the Fox river in Green Bay. Their technique was to always keep the boat moving in a drift. While violently jiging big plastics. I think they caught three flatheads, all hooked outside the mouth.

That’s the one w/ Doug and two other fellas. Sort of makes me wonder what else is not shown?

At Procats we’ve videoed these fish covered with silt, we’ve bumped them with the camera…they don’t want to move. We’ve had people put chubs and other baitfish right in front of their mouths, they’re not eating. But magically…they’ll slam a big jig & plastic???? a method that I’ve heard of no one using during pre-spawn when these fish are super aggressive??? We have a closed season on catfish in Wisconsin below the Sauk dam during winter to protect these fish, and a fisheries biologist I talked with said they found mortality rates too high for tagged fish in winter, so they won’t winter tag anymore. I’m going to be blunt, this winter jigging thing…at least up here…is a CROCK. In-fisherman has seen the err of their ways and is trying to gracefully back-pedal, better than nothing. But they’ve already done damage by encouraging un-knowing anglers to utilize this so-called “pattern” None of the hard-core flat guys I know would dream of jigging for flats in the winter.

Jason.

I agree with you totally and never really knew people targeted flats in the winter .I was just saying that closing the season wont save the fish that are cought on accident and them people usually wouldnt want to keep one anyhow so why not carefully get it back and dont handle it out of the water “cut the line and let him swim”the fish may still have a chance.

I myself put more value on a old flat or strugeon over anyother fish out there. Some people up this way feel the same way I’m sure but there are others that dont. Like your saying anyone targeting them is SNAGING. Thats is wrong and any officer out there would feel the same way (I would hope) but that wont stop it from happening. But if people learn more about these fish now including myself it may change things for the future and that will help as much as any rule or law.
I am up for new rules if thats what it takes and know you dont like new rules either.Especially with the borderwater patrol we deal with

Last year was my first year really spending time after big cats and after catching a few nice ones you really grow a respect for these fish and there habits. Cant wait to get back out there this year Hate to say it but I wish you could bottle the smell of that river

BrianK

First things first i’m don’t want to start a pissing match or something, and i’m not offended at all by questioning my fish iding abilities. I was just tring to point out that there are other people out there with more credibilty than me that everyone knows.

The 80 feet of water i wrote about was not my home waters the waters i was speaking of was i beleave Rainy Lake,but dont hold me to that. That was on kavajecz new fishing show.

As far as my home waters theres a few,but i fish for the flats on the Rock River in Illinois. Now i don’t know what the flathead population is up in MN, or if the mortality rates would really effect it but down here its pretty good.
Now before I go any further I want to say this is not something I do often maybe once or twice a year maybe catch 5 to 10 fish total in the winter. Now the section of water i fish if its not the best its sure in the top2 or 3 in the state for flatheads the couple of guides on this part of the river brag of 40 to 50 flats a year over 40lbs not to mention the hundreds of 20 and 30 lbs. This fishery is not strugling. Now im not gonna lie i have snagged a couple of these fish but thats not what im tring to do, and i think we’ve all done that wether its bass walleye or what ever and some of you even kepp those fish even though it illegal. I use a 1 to 1.5 ounce jig with power bait power poggie to catch these fish. Now if i just wanted to snag a fish would be using this setup.

Now if I were to see a major decline in this fishery i’d be on this band wagon with you other guys.Not to mention our locations are differnt we don’t get as cold or long of winter here maybe that has something to do with it because these fish down here do eat through the winter not as much im sure but they do.

P.S. I let my in-fisherman subscription run out,but i’ll make sure I get a copy of that artical that was mentioned to see what they have to say. Thats about the only fishing magizine I read anymore because those guys do know there stuff. It seems to me the other magizines just rewrite the same articals year after year In-Fisherman is always something new it seems.

There are quite a few differences between a walleye and a flathead. Walleyes are somewhat active all winter long where flatheads enter a true hibernation/dormancy period. There are thousands of walleyes in the river, not near as many flatheads. The depth factor, in my opinion, isn’t a big issue as flatheads, at least on the Mississippi, don’t winter in “deep”(at least that I know of) water. Flatheads congregate in certain areas and a good fisherman or snagger could catch hundreds of flatheads each spring. And unethical anglers could do some serious damage. They are very vulnerable.

When would the season be closed? Flats don’t just swim to their winter holes and shut down for the winter it’s a process, just as it’s a process of leaving the holes in the spring. I’d be in favor of a closed season December through February maybe…not sure about that.

Here’s a prime example. Lat spring I saw 4 separate boats hovering over a known flathead wintering spot on pool 4. I saw six fish get “caught” in about 20 minutes; four were caught in the body, and two in the mouth. The guy jigging the daredevil was doing the best!!! Illegal?…is there a law against jigging? jigging a daredevil? What about a jigging spoon with an oversized treble? That’s clearly legal in my book. But just cause its legal don’t make it ethical or right.

Another thought. If some biologists think the mortality rate is high on these winter caught fish I wish they’d come out and put it in writing for us to all see. It would make a big difference and help those on the fence make their decisions….which should be against this winter fishing. That’s my 2 cents.

RiverRat, you must know of Denny Halgren. Ask him how much Rock River flatheads eat during the winter.

Why don’t they hit livebait during the winter?
Why don’t they hit plastics during the summer?

A lot of times in life, the most obvious answer is correct.

Ok then how did the bait get into there mouth? I did say jig not fying lure.

Maybe someone should go snag a few Flattys and wire um to see once and for all if they survive or not. I still wouldn’t call it sport by any means but just curious. That would definitely put some teeth into a closed season argument….I never would have thought we would need it.

Oh, and the Rock River…. I want to go there sometime! I even e-mailed Mr. Halgren about a trip but haven’t heard back…he does guide doesn’t he?

RB, Are you saying Flatheads don’t hit plastics?

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I saw 4 separate boats hovering over a known flathead wintering spot on pool 4. I saw six fish get “caught” in about 20 minutes; four were caught in the body, and two in the mouth. The guy jigging the daredevil was doing the best!!! Illegal?…is there a law against jigging? jigging a daredevil? What about a jigging spoon with an oversized treble? That’s clearly legal in my book. But just cause its legal don’t make it ethical or right.

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What Dirk mentioned is the exact reason I brought up this post.

Snagging is against the law…but once they are in the boat…chances are they will make it home to the table. If there was a closed season..people wouldn’t want to take a chance taking them home or snag/hook them. (that might be a question and not a statement!)
Although that doesn’t stop the true accidental snagging of fish, it would detour people from fishing for them…

Jet, do you know of any articals on Pro Cats’ that talk about biologist studies pertaining to this?

One other question…the law is 5 cat’s with only 2 being flats…(MN) I don’t think the population is struggling in MN either. So is there that many people targeting flats to clean out the population at 2 per day?

I’ll be the first to admit, I don’t know much about the habits and cycles of flatheads on the Mississippi…let alone the Rock River. I just know they are much easier to get to the boat with a big hook in certain spots in the winter.

Dark…I too email him last fall…no response.

Dark30,

Denny sometimes has problems with his e-mail, I would call him if you are interested. He had a big problem last year because the Rock was so high for so long he had to cancel and reschedule a ton of trips from the early part of the year.
Denny is the most knowledgeable Flathead expert I know of…he’s forgotten more than I know. Him and I have talked about this very issue (wintering flatheads) His opinion is that these fish are in a hibernating state and are being incidentally hooked (or snagged) depending on your perspective…and that they should be left alone. This is one man that I put a lot of stock in when it comes to anything “Flathead”. I wholeheartedly agree and wish these fish could be protected, it’s coming. 50 years ago people kept every Muskie they caught…even landed them with a pistol for cripes sake. Point is attitudes change.

Jason.

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In the last issue of In-fisherman, there was a little artical about wintering flats. If I recall, it talked about recommending a closed season. I don’t have the issue with me at this time, but I’ll look when I get home.

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Correction…Feb ’05 In-Fisherman artical on page 24. Last sentence in the artical….”We recommend banning winter snagging and strictly enforcing such regulations.”

As an added note, the photo next to the artical show a flat with a plastic jig hanging out of her mouth. Can’t really tell if the jig hook her in or outside of the mouth.

Accidental snagging will always happen and I don’t think it’s an issue that can be tackled, but a closed season outright would at least discourage those out to catch some for the table who are actually targeting flatheads in the winter. I think the problem there is that they may catch forty fish to keep two, and the rate of survival is apparently extremely low. I wish there were data to support this, but it is intuitive that this should be the case, since here in the upper midwest flatheads are at the northern extreme of their range and survive winter only by going through a near complete shutdown. They do not eat, and survive by burning as few calories as possible to keep alive in a dormant state in very specific locations where they are likely to be extremely concentrated in numbers. It all adds up to vulnerability to exploitation and anything we can do to prevent that exploitation is worthwhile. If I had to choose times I would say December 1st through March 31st.

As Dirk said, walleyes and flatheads are not comparable in terms of winter mortality as walleyes thrive in cold water conditions and their thermostats are simply set lower – they are not in near total shutdown in winter and as such have the capacity to recover from a fight/relocation, unlike flatheads.

I’ve heard that flatheads are pretty much dead weight in winter, fight-wise. What kind of sporting opportunity does that present anyway? If the goal were food gathering, and flatheads were seen as a viable food option, it might be different, but there are about a hundred good reasons flatheads are not an appropriate mass harvest food fish (slow growth being primary) and their highest value is as a sport fish. I’d be preaching to the choir here to belabor that point, I’m sure!

Jet Cat, what are the dates the season’s closed in your liberal fishing law state…that allows you to use anything for bait including the kitchen sink and three rods per person.

Although there is a little (?) humor there, I find it very odd that WI has a closed season on Flats (I wasn’t aware of this) when MN, a state that “protects it’s resources” with a very large amount of intertwining laws that could be called “on the restrictive side”…doesn’t.

Well I must say this is a very informative thread. I never knew flats were old like sturgen and I never knew that they hibernated. I have never caught a flat personally nor do I keep any cat I do catch. They just dont taste good. But I know to this thread if I had stumbled upon a wintering spot and started catching flats I would of probably kept it up. There is little chance I would ever stumble upon one of these holes but now if I accidentley did I would move on. Knowledge is power. Excellent thread.

Jason, if you would like more, interesting info (and want to see a really BIG flathead) click on MY Website in FlatheadWI’s post. Lot’s of info there.

RiverRat420, does the area of the Rock your referring to freeze up at all?

Sadly, Wisconsin only has a closed season on catfish during winter in one area…albeit a large wintering hole. I think it is from Dec. 1st through opening day in May. Every little bit helps. In the “old articles” section on the home page of Procats, there is an article titled “A new wrinkle or just an old snag” the truth about wintering Flatheads…and there may or may not have been one in the first issue of the e-mag too,

Jason.

The North American Fishing show just mentioned winter flathead fishing on the ole miss and showed them pulling one in . They need to read this thread, maybe it would change their minds.Snagged or caught I think we all agree damage can be done to the resource if not left alone.