Update on Bullheads over 7 inches

I called Roy Johannes, Commercial Fisheries Program Consultant, with the MN DNR a couple of weeks ago to inquire about using bullheads over 7 inches as bait. Roy made it clear that one could use bullheads over 7 inches in Minnesota. The problem is that you can’t transport them over land if they’re over 7 inches and alive. So, if you caught some 9 or 10 inch bullhead in the afternoon on Pool 4, you could use them that evening as bait on that same body of water.

I also acquired about getting a commercial permit to transport live fish. In the Nov./Dec. 2004 issue of the Minnesota Volunteer there was an article about commercial fisherman and in that article they stated that a commercial fisherman who fishes the Mississippi river transports his catch alive to markets in Chicago and New York. I thought that if one could get a permit to transport live fish, then one could transport 10 inch bullheads over land and still be in compliance with all the laws. Roy basically asked me what my point was and when I explained what that if one could get a commercial permit to transport live fish,then one could more easily fish with bullheads larger than 7 inches. Roy told me that they’re working on this issue and hoped to get something worked out that would allow the use of bullheads larger than 7 inches. Roy said that it would not need the approval of the MN legislature but that it would not be implemented for the 2005 season but hopefully for 2006. The DNR’s concern is with transporting invasive species, and understandably so. But realistically, I see no greater danger transporting 10 inch bullhead than transporting 6 inch bullhead.

So for all you flathead guy, it sounds like there’s some hope.

Boone

My understanding is that the DNR will propose a “rule” change rather than a “statute” change in regards to the bullhead deal. This will allow them to bypass the whole “changing the law” thing and the legislature. After this proposal the next step that will involve us fisherman is when the DNR puts this rule change proposal out for “public comment”. This is done in three ways: media, DNR web site, and letters to interested parties. This will be our chance to speak in favor of the change. Either Brian or I will let everyone know when this happens. It’s too bad this isn’t going to happen next year but change is sometimes painfully slow.

Just a comment on the bullhead deal. Could a person really legally catch a bullhead on pool 4 and use it for bait? My understanding is that a fish that is caught is either supposed to be immediately released or put in the livewell. I’m not so sure you could legally put a fish in your livewell and then take it out and put it back in the water, even if it’s on your hook??? It would be legal if you caught it, and then immediately put it on your hook and tossed it back into the water??? I suppose you could hook it and then let it hang over your boat and drag it in the water to your cat hole ?? What fun law stuff is this is eh boys ??

I’m a little surprised that Roy forgot to mention that the old Mississippi is classified as infested water.

Commancharo correct me if I’m wrong, but because it’s infested with (zebra mussle) you can’t use a 10 inch bullhead or even a 6 inch bullhead for bait if it’s caught in infested waters.

Roy is more of the commercial fishery’s guy. With our MN laws, you have to be specialized to really know them…not taking anything away from Roy…it’s just a mess (all the laws I mean).

As indicated above, we are watching the DNR press releases and for a notice from the DNR (Feb?) that this issue will go out for public opinion.

The commercal permit idea was a good catch. When Dirk and I met with the DNR this was brought up – as was a “special” permit (no charge) to transport bullheads larger than 7″. They opted for a rule change and that’s where it sites today…as far as I know.

I forgot to respond to Dirks tongue in cheek (sort of) question above…

I think..and I would ask for specific clarification on this before I would try it…but as mentioned above about infested waters, you can’t use anything as bait.
I think what you were refering to Dirk is the “no cull” rule on border waters and this was the DNR response with the rule number if you care to look it up.

Quote:

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…… Mille Lacs Lake and border waters have a no culling rule. On these waters, if you don’t immediately release it then you have to take it home. The border water rule can be found in MR 6266.0100 and the emergency rule has the language for Mille Lacs.

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Dirk, have you ever given thought of running for a MN Senate seat…naaa, you have too much common sense!

whats the deal a 7in bullhead is big enough to get a huge flathead! why do you guys what to use such a large bait. and don’t reply big bait big fish

Post deleted by Briank

Big cat, big mouse.

This bait issue gets confusing doesn’t it? In the MN regulations booklet, it states that it’s illegal to import minnows into the state, which when interpretted in the strictest sense means you can’t buy minnows at Everts and go across the channel into Minnesota.

I do question how MN can impose it’s laws on MN residents when they are in WI. For example, MN border regulations state that if you are a MN resident, you must have a MN resident license to fish the MN/WI border waters and that you must follow the MN regulations. WI law also states that you must have a resident license from your state (MN for MN residents and WI for WI residents) but then goes on to state that you must follow the regulations of the state in which you are fishing. The WI regulation does not state that you must follow the law of the state from which you are licensed. So if you were a MN resident using sunnies for bait in backwaters on the WI side and were checked by the WI game wardens, they’d find you in compliance and be on their way. But if the MN wardens checked you, they’d ticket you for using sunnies as bait. Now if your buddy from WI was in the boat with you, also using sunnies, they wouldn’t ticket him.

If you pleaded not guilty, stating that you were following the regulations of the state in which you were fishing, namely WI, it’d make an interesting case wouldn’t it? I wonder what the MN judge would do?

Boone

Boone, you have stated the conflicting confusion very well…well at least as clear as it can be.

WI recongnizes the “imaginary” center of the river boundry, MN doesn’t. I’m afraid that the judge would say guilty as charged…unless he/she wasn’t up on the laws.

True story, last year the WI Park Patrol by the Kinni here on the Croix stopped by my anchored boat around 11 pm to see what’s up. They told me I would have better luck by using three rods. When I explained I was a MN resedent and couldn’t legally…the response was “Your in WI waters, you can use three rods”.

What do you think a jude would say when I told him that the Park Rangers told me I could? Believe everything you hear? $100.

Almost forgot…If you buy the minnow in WI you just have to launch from the WI side and you’re in full compliance… Haven’t you heard? WI minnows are bad!

Boone, I can tell your getting into the MN laws. Are you looking at the ” summary book” or the statuets and rules themselves?

Briank,

I just read those little booklets you get when you buy a license.

I’m not really sure why I developed an interest in this topic. I just read the posts this summer and found it kind of interesting. When I saw that commercial fishermen were transporting live fish, I thought maybe you cat guys could get a permit to do the same thing so I called Roy to find out if you could.

I usually don’t target cats but I’m always thrilled when I get a big one. Last summer I got really lucky and got a 41.5″ and a 44″ fishing the wingdams. I’d like to learn how to fish them sometime.

Boone

Sorry, in rereading your post, I see you were talking inches and not pounds! Still nice fish. But a 40 incher won’t give you the same ride as a 40 lbser

Mr. Boone Sir!! With a couple 40’s under your belt, it sounds to me like you know how to fish them!

Wing dams, 40+ fish and walleye rod…sounds like you had a heck of a ride!

Below I’ll provide the links to the “laws” and “rules”. If you think you find something that might work…PLEASE let me know!

2004 MN Statutes

Rules

Hey Boone, maybe you can teach US how to catch the big ones!

Back to Boone’s original post. I have studied this issue every which way to try to figure a legal way to use fish from the boundary waters for bait. My intention was to harvest gizzard shad for bait and I wanted to be sure I was legal. After corresponding with the MN DNR I was advised that the Mississippi River (downstream of St Anthony Falls) and the St Croix River (downstream of the St Croix Boomsite) are considered zebra mussel infested waters. As such it is not legal for a Minnesota angler on the boundary waters to catch any fish and use it for bait. So it is not legal to harvest bullheads of any size or any other fish (to include shad)from the Mississippi River and use them for bait.

Mile 832,

I’ve just lucked into about a half dozen flatheads over the past five or six years that were 39″ or better. I’ve caught them on a 1 oz. jig of a Dubuque rig while slowing trolling my way across the upstream face of a wingdam. I’ve caught them all during the day. I catch so few when you figure how many hours I’ve spent doing this that one really wouldn’t target cats this way.

A few common things amongst these flatheads.
1. All were caught during later summer/early fall.
2. Low river flow rates.
3. Near the channel ends of the wingdam in water at least 13 ft. deep.

Because these areas are relatively snag-free and pretty open, if you get a good hookset, you can usually get them to the boat. I good quality jig hook is needed. I’ve had some big cats straighten out some cheaper 4/0 jig hooks.

Good Luck,

Boone

Boone, what you’ve just described is the late summer/early fall migration. The Flats head out of there “summer spawning” areas and start moving for the wintering holes. They often hang around a wing dam on the main channel as they move. Just an FYI, Flats have been documented to travel up to 60 miles (in MO)in this migration.

So, bullheads caught in noninfested waters, under 7″ in length can still be used as bait?
That’s all I need to know.
Tuck

Take me along!

You a wee bit longer taller than 7″ ya big bull head

I didn’t see that one coming!

My wife was telling me that I don’t snore when i sleep any more…I kinda croak.