Are the big ones freaks?

I posted this on another website first – thought it might be good to get some input from you guys here:

Old subject, but still not resolved. Lately I’ve talked to some serious catters and we’re all wondering why we never catch anything over 50 (here on the upper Mississippi). Of course, part of the reason is that they are rare – that goes without saying. But are they also different in habits, habitat preference? We touched on this earlier and many of us said that the 40+ pound cats seem to come right out of the same holes where we catch ten pounders, often on the same night. But what about the 50+? Is it possible that somehow they begin inhabiting their own spaces when they get that big? We also talked below about growth and aging, and I do think that the supersized cats are oddities to some extent in their growth rates – I don’t think their presence can be the result of longevity alone. So is it only genes causing this anomaly, or are they also sliding into the right spots? Denny Halgren comes to mind – he catches supersizers on the Rock – does anyone know what kind of holes he’s fishing? Are they odd? Are the bigguns coming out after the bait, or do you literally have to deliver it in front of their face?
For any of you who have had the good fortune to get the supersized cats, have you found them in habitat with any significant differences from the habitat other cats come out of? When and where you catch 50+ pound cats, do you also catch smaller cats? I never see Robby with anything small, but then who’d post small one pics when you’ve got the giants to show off? Are you catching smaller cats, Robby?

Also… does anyone fish the big dams on the big rivers? If so, how? Fishing dams on the Mississippi presents several challenges, I’m just wondering if it’s a worthwhile use of fishing time/effort.

Had to put it all in bold because I couldn’t copy/paste directly into the text here…

Any ideas?

I got one reply telling me to fish “dominant cover” and gave this reply:

but what the heck is dominant structure? The term itself doesn’t tell me anything. I fish about every combination of wood, current, baitfish, and depth that you can get – from logjams that block channels to single logs, from 2-40 feet, etc… and catch 10 pound flatheads out of it all. I fish structure that screams catfish and structure that’s barely there at all. Current seams, eddies, dropoffs, logjams, wingdams, points, flats, the head/tail/potbelly of the hole, undercut banks, confluences, inside bends, outside bends, ledges, within sight of the main channel, six miles up the tributary – they all hold fish at one time or another.

“Dominant cover”? My assumption would be the stuff that looks the woodiest, the most clearcut, the best edge/drop/etc… and having the most baitfish. Well I certainly concentrate on these areas, but there isn’t one of them that doesn’t hold ten pound flats.

Between myself and those in my boat this year, we’ve caught 81 flats – out of all the habitat described above. I’m not complaining, and I’m not as frustrated as my post probably makes me sound – I just wonder what I’m missing, if anything. What specifically makes cover “dominant”? I’ve fished good looking spots and got skunked repeatedly – is that a good sign or a bad one? I’d hate to have to convince my nephew that we have to start focusing on the spots where we don’t catch any! Tried that one year, actually – spent about a week of nights fishing one spot that looked awesome and didn’t produce – a week of skunks – after the first few times we were convinced that it meant we were in a “biggun” hole, but after the sixth and seventh, we were only convinced we’d been skunked a lot.

Every 40+ pound fish I’ve caught has come out of what I’d call good flathead cover. Wood in abundance, current, and lots of baitfish. The depths have varied from 5-35 feet. I’ve also caught lots and lots of smaller fish in those spots. If there are spots out there that look any better, I have fished them. So what am I missing in spots that makes them better but escapes my eye?

I know that 50+ pound fish can be caught off the same hole that you catch 5lb fish. They do come out of their hidey hole and move around. I think it just takes lots and lots of hours on the water and being at the right place at the right time or in many cases be there on the right night when that big one decides its time to fill its gut once again. Big fish don’t necessarily move every night. Just about every flathead water we (all of us) fish (From Georgia to Texas to Minn to Penn.) has had 50+ pound fish caught out of it. Some do harbor more 50 lbers than others. They are rare and make up a very little percent of the overall population. There are no special techniques, baits, or locations to catch bigger fish. They are right there with their younger brethren. I recently had a 5, 8, and 50+ pound fish caught from the same anchor. Just keep fishin’ and it will come. Denny catches lots of big fish, he’s a good fisherman and I’m not taking anything away from that, but he is on the water 10 to 20X longer than any of us. If you have a jug with 98 white marbles and 2 red, how many times are you going to have to dip your hand in there before you catch a red marble? Lets just say there are some anglers who can dip their hand in that jug a hell of alot more than others. They are the ones catching the big fish (consistently) and there are also the anglers who get lucky and get that red marble in one of the first ten tries. Anyway, thats my two cents worth.

I agree with Zorro. My personal philosophy is that I am after trophy fish and they are few and far between. I don’t expect to catch one every time – as a matter of fact, I don’t worry much about getting skunked. I love the experience and the challenge. I don’t hunt much anymore and I find chasing big flats to embody all the things I enjoyed about hunting. I love all the on the water scouting and the preparation for flathead fishing, it’s like hunting with a rod and reel. My challenge for big fish is that I don’t want to travel to catch my flats. I’m not sure the body of water I fish has the fish density of some water just a short drive away. I know that going in so that increases my odds of catching a big fish. I willing to accept the increased odds so that I can fish more often. I’ve never got a 50# fish – my personal best is 46#. I’ve never got another big one from that spot where I got the 46# but I know there are bigger ones there. The habitat is right, the current is right, the forage base is there, and I’ve got a big one before. I want to fish every chance I can get so I think that improves my odds. I’m going to win the lottery – I just have to buy more tickets – that’s my approach.

I couldnt agree more

CA

gloves? we dont need no stinkin gloves!!

Here’s a response to your question from Jason Vokoun. He’s is a fisheries biologist that did “a ton” of work with flatheads in the Missouri River System and others. He is …in my opinion “THE” expert on how a flathead lives.

Quote:

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—–Original Message—–
From: Jason V
Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 8:12 AM
To: K, Brian
Subject: RE: Size

Brian,

As for the “wall phenomenon” in which you seem to never get fish in the
boat over a magic number (it was 70 lbs in the lower Missouri River in
Missouri). It’s a very interesting question that extends beyond catfish,
this happens with bass as well.

The answer is partly known, and it is an intersection of
climate/temperature of the region and the local habitat/food issues.
Without a real noticeable change in one of these two over-riding
environmental conditions, most fish, if they survive for their given
lifespan, have a growth potential in a given region.
Local differences between habitat and food resources are probably more
linked to locally hot spots within a region, I think climate is the more
important issue to your question. For flats in upper Miss, they have a
limited number of suitable growing days each year. Even if flats are
eating at maximum consumption in the upper Miss, being a warmwater fish,
they shut down metabolically in the cold season and grow very little for
much of the year. They do live a long time, which is why they do get big
in Minnesota, but they get bigger in Texas and probably always will.

Releasing fish can improve the number of large fish in a fishery, and is
good practice (dead fish don’t grow), but it is likely to have little
effect on “the wall”.

Because growth slows in fish as they get bigger, (more energy needed for
muscle maintenance and reproductive activities), the southern flats get
ahead of your fish size-wise in the first few years of life during which
they have a much longer growing season. Once they reach reproductive age
(4-5 years old) the growth rates are similar but the northern fish never
do catch up and consequently don’t get really big.

I would guestimate non-scientifically, that when several fish over 50
lbs are caught, one could back-track to a series of years in which the
weather was rather mild for the region when those fish were young.

There is always the genetic freak fish out there though, and most world
records represent this kind of oddity. Lake Texoma is full of 60-80 blue
catfish, but the 120-plus that took the world record was likely the only
one in the Lake (but it did pass on its genes to a new generation of
baby blues). What I’m trying to say it that anyone, anywhere, has a shot
at a big fish especially in free-flowing waters, but there are certainly
regions where the outcome is more likely to occur.

Jason

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