catch and release last night on Lake mIlle Lacs…??

Tom Sawvell wrote:

This isn’t about studies by any group. Its not about a lake. Its not about the dnr. This is nothing more than a “I can do it and I will do it just to urine you white people off” thing. These Indians that are spearing or netting…look at what they drive and get on the water with. Look at the equipment….do you suppose they “HAVE” to eat fish to live? Nada. The Indians are doing this because they know they can urine on your feet and you can’t do a thing about it. The problem lies in Washington with a panel of high court judges who won’t do anything to end this discrimination and who consistently re-interpret the laws and treaties. They’re [judges] evidently paid well by the tribes. And if these same judges insisted on having the laws and agreements that existed when the treaties were sign enforced we wouldn’t be seeing the issues we see today.

If people want to make a difference with this Mille Lacs issue, the problem has to be properly addressed. “G” has pretty much figured this out in that the netting, or spearing, goes on un-checked and that the problems did not begin until the tribes started to pull their cute crap. Since the dnr has its hands tied by the federal government and high courts we can’t blame them and its not fair to do so even though they have made some mistakes. Everyone who has voiced a thought in any of these threads should also be contacting their legislators at the federal and state level urging them to drag up these treaties and seriously study how “valid” each is in today’s way of life. I doesn’t do any good to attack or blame the dnr. Go for the real throat….the meanings of those treaties today as determined by actual “need” of the Indians. If they want to run around a fire and squack like a stepped on duck in the name of tradition and then go spear a fish, fine. But they sure as heck do not NEED to take truckloads and kill tons of other fish just to take walleyes. The problem is getting these high judges to listen to some modern ideas and to go back and tell the tribes they can’t do what they currently do because there is no “need”. Tradition and NEED are a world apart.

I agree with MOST of your words but with the exception of one point for sure…

The lawmakers act ( most of the time) accordingly to what the DNR says. The Mn. DNR is WRONG for not standing up strongly to the ongoing mess and in no uncertain terms speak the truth–thus exposing the hard facts based on their own sound biology. In fact, this “hands are tied” is truly a false scenario–giving the DNR a pass on this mess. In fact, the fisheries head publicly said he would be fired if he spoke against the ongoing management scenario. So—no pass for the DNR in the blame game unless/IF the heads of the DNR did their HONEST job and spoke PUBLICLY via the media and to the lawmakers –exposing reality.

In no uncertain terms, the state/DNR, per the court/treaty related orders, do NOT have their hands tied. No way…no how. ( sitting in his living room, the Governor and I agreed on that FACT–after he read the court orders out loud right to my face)

I’m not arguing what you’re trying to get done Steve. But the truth is unless you are in any office or discussion or hearing or what have you in person, you will not really know what information is available or being used to act. What is said outside of those venues is all heresay. Even the gov sitting in your living room will give you a glossed over report. I am absolutely convinced of that as I am that as long as those in Washington act behind closed doors we will never get anywhere with this indian issue. We all know that there’s chit-chat amongst the powers that we never get made aware of BEFORE the fact and in some cases the public is simply not allowed in. Why is that? Until people make enough noise and start kicking on doors of the legislators harping about the lack of total transparency with this nothing is ever going to move anywhere. People need to seriously back up here and stop finger pointing at the dnr if they aren’t rattling the cages of the lawmakers. This is exactly what the tribes want and is exactly how they want to operate….by shutting out those who have the most vocal input or criticism of the current program. This is exactly why they are netting and spearing….they know its got a million white hides completely pissed off and there’s nothing that can be done. As long as they can forcefully omit the white hides from becoming a part of the bargaining table, nothing will get done. The lake isn’t wrong. The anglers aren’t wrong. Its the process and the legal definitions that are wrong and until the anglers and the businesses affected in this and every other state where this crap goes on decide that they’ve had enough and start banging on elected officials doors with loud hands and voices, this saga will continue as is and then the lake may as well dry up. And its not just Mille Lac. Look at the statewide robbery that the Indians are allowed to do all in the name of what? Tradition? Tradition is birchbark, and catgut and sinew and not wasting what they take….I doubt that Indians were so friggin selective 160 years ago that walleye was super high on the menu because a whole lot of fish species are easier to catch with a lot less work. They want walleyes today because they can sell them. Can you sell walleyes?

The railroads had imminent domain powers like you can’t believe in the same time frame as the indian treaties. Those powers have since been roped in because they simply don’t NEED the protection any longer. Prove that the Indians can live without the fish and get the treaties reversed since in today’s world the Indians live the way they do because THEY CHOOSE to, not because they are required to.

This is nothing more than discrimination against white anglers. We’re being held hostage by a treaty that has about as much validity in today’s world as toilet paper with pre-punched holes. They are doing what they are doing only because thy can and know that you can’t do a thing. Change that attitude and then you’ll get change for the lake.

I don’t know about ya’ll but I’m damned tired of this discrimination sh/t being tossed in the white direction while we abide by the laws and rules and pay for licenses when others can just do as they want based on their ancestry or color.

Tom Sawvell wrote:

This isn’t about studies by any group. Its not about a lake. Its not about the dnr. This is nothing more than a “I can do it and I will do it just to urine you white people off” thing. These Indians that are spearing or netting…look at what they drive and get on the water with. Look at the equipment….do you suppose they “HAVE” to eat fish to live? Nada. The Indians are doing this because they know they can urine on your feet and you can’t do a thing about it. The problem lies in Washington with a panel of high court judges who won’t do anything to end this discrimination and who consistently re-interpret the laws and treaties. They’re [judges] evidently paid well by the tribes. And if these same judges insisted on having the laws and agreements that existed when the treaties were sign enforced we wouldn’t be seeing the issues we see today.

If people want to make a difference with this Mille Lacs issue, the problem has to be properly addressed. “G” has pretty much figured this out in that the netting, or spearing, goes on un-checked and that the problems did not begin until the tribes started to pull their cute crap. Since the dnr has its hands tied by the federal government and high courts we can’t blame them and its not fair to do so even though they have made some mistakes. Everyone who has voiced a thought in any of these threads should also be contacting their legislators at the federal and state level urging them to drag up these treaties and seriously study how “valid” each is in today’s way of life. I doesn’t do any good to attack or blame the dnr. Go for the real throat….the meanings of those treaties today as determined by actual “need” of the Indians. If they want to run around a fire and squack like a stepped on duck in the name of tradition and then go spear a fish, fine. But they sure as heck do not NEED to take truckloads and kill tons of other fish just to take walleyes. The problem is getting these high judges to listen to some modern ideas and to go back and tell the tribes they can’t do what they currently do because there is no “need”. Tradition and NEED are a world apart.

Tom, I agree with some of what you are saying here but would have to argue some points because there are others that most certainly will. True, tribal members do not “HAVE” to eat fish to live anymore than non tribal members. There is no more NEED to for them to take truckloads than what state licensed anglers have already harvested or are allowed under the Treaty agreed upon harvest quotas. But they are allowed a harvest just as state licensed anglers are allowed a harvest (albeit all to hooking mortality). I think that argument will gain very little traction. What is more the issue here are the methods and timing of of the tribal harvest. (Spawning time netting and spearing). That is what has created the firestorm. This has all come as a result of the treaty co-management that has “flushed” the Mille Lacs walleye fishery down the toilet. The treaties will not go away. I do not like this anymore than anyone else, but this will be the “great wall” that we continue to face.
Steve, Your quote “In fact, about 80-90 percent of the big walleyes that dominated the scene during those years due to the slot limit are no longer in the picture ( most disappeared during the summer/fall of 2013).”
I’m wondering why that was….all from old age??

Steve, Your quote “In fact, about 80-90 percent of the big walleyes that dominated the scene during those years due to the slot limit are no longer in the picture ( most disappeared during the summer/fall of 2013).”
I’m wondering why that was….all from old age??

Andy, many of the fish were aged at 10 years old or older by 2013. MANY were OLD males in the BIG 22″ size range. Combine the FACT (proven by DNR studies firsthand) that shows those fish were caught/hooked over and over again due to being so hungry in the 2007-2013 period, being bounced on boat floors countless times, BIG lack of natural forage and simply OLD AGE–they left the picture–for the most part, during the warm water period –mid summer/fall of 2013. Netting surveys/creel surveys etc. showed reality. It all came to a harsh head, that combo, in just a few months period of time.

Recall the DNR always saying the spawning biomass was just fine…and now the past couple years the same people are saying the spawning biomass is very low and needs protecting? Big fish are NOT a finite scenario…the inevitable becomes reality.

And…I think the late ice out and not as much netting scenario in 2013 , is NOT the MAIN reason the 2013 year class has done so well into year 2 and 3. The predation issues controlling that survival scenario DIED before MOST of that year class became editable size–late summer of 2013.

steve-fellegy wrote:

Lake Mille Lacs media ignores the 2016 tribal harvest ongoing. Cedar Creek access full of Tribal boats and “U.S. Govermnment ” trucks Friday night and no Messenger reporters on hand? Where is the local media DECRYING–LOUDLY– Tribal members purposely killing <strong class=”ido-tag-strong”>walleyes ( no catch and release using spears and or “perch” gill nets”) as MOST of the Messenger readers and subscribers can NOT legally take ONE walleye via hook and line–all the while the reporters will write that the DNR is saying the spawning biomas is at “record lows” and NEEDS protecting.

Mille Lacs Messenger reporters and columnists ignore one side of the story yet are fine covering the non- Tribal “harvest” side of the story. Does this form/level of reporting send a ” we don’t give damn about you” MESSAGE to the MAJORITY of the Messenger subscribers–and send a MESSAGE of “support” the Tribal Regime? We always hear ” we cover the subject of Treaty Harvest and fishery management fairly”. Yet—Reporters attend non-Tribal meetings on the subject but ONLY make a phone call to get the “Tribal side”–instead of being on hand with camera’s in tow–reporting reality–first hand?

Mille Lacs Messenger management speaks/or lack of speaking– with forked tongue?

Steve, and anyone else who cares?…just read today that the editor of the “Mess” Shauna Tetrault has resigned and is leaving Isle altogether. Perhaps soon! Likely she’d had enough of the beat downs. No word on whether she’s leaving her hubby behind too. (For those unaware, hubby is DNR CO Chris Tetrault assigned to the Mille Lacs district). Her farewell column is not too kind on the community her publication was serving. But she admits herself that she had been warned. From her beginnings I thought she wasn’t the right fit for that position. Coming from the outside she was never in “tune” with objective reporting and telling the “local readers” what they wanted to hear. Something she should have known coming to a small town paper into an already angry and frustrated community. Some of her writings were akin to striking a match on a gas soaked sofa that she was sitting on. Everyone knew where to find her. Funny thing I wondered, her hubby being DNR CO should well have known what she was flinging out there was certain to bring the wrath that she endured. Maybe that’s what he was hoping? Filling the vacancy is one of your favorite’s Steve, “Miss Vivian” LaMoore!

Filling the vacancy is one of your favorite’s Steve, “Miss Vivian” LaMoore! Quote

Amazing…this could get ugly to say the least.

Wonder why the Band hasn’t bought the Messenger yet.

Dutchboy wrote:

Wonder why the Band hasn’t bought the Messenger yet.

In a sense they have…

The ML Band warned the Messenger management a few years back, that if the Fellegy’s continue to write their weekly/monthly paid for columns in the paper–they would pull their ads. ( The ML Band is the biggest advertiser the paper has) You know the outcome…

FYI—I am NOW done posting for the next few months, on the Lake Mille Lacs scenario–ONLY doing Leech Lake fishing reports and the like until AFTER the open water season is over. –cardiac doctor orders.

Have a great season! Stay safe. Nothing will have changed when you come back other then the DNR will have thrown another GLIFWC directed dart as to the cause of the Mille Lacs debacle.

1 thing will have changed, I will have eaten zero Mille Lacs walleye this season… first time in my life.

big_g wrote:

1 thing will have changed, I will have eaten zero Mille Lacs <em class=”ido-tag-em”>walleye this season… first time in my life.

…but it is a sacrifice that we non-indians have to make to get the lake healthy again…bunch of BS…RR

How will I not starve …. ???? Seems the government doesn’t care about me….

I wouldn’t count on media to inform the public. Media needs to sell ads, their business model demands it. They don’t care who buys them.

We do however have this wonderful little device that allows us to tell the world of injustice in an instance. Get down there and record, and show it to the world. Upload and grow a voice so big the media can no longer ignore it.

My 2 cents….

My buddy once watched as two of them sank their empty beer cans to the bottom of the lake while out pulling in nets. He was in his living room with a high powered scope and could clearly see the Busch light label. Would have LOVED to have that one on video…RR

Isn’t there something in the Treaties about alcohol ?

that is what I read as well. I believe your takeaway from the report to be accurate.!! Not sure why that’s controversial??

talk about sad. A person has to leave town because what they say is politically incorrect. If you don’t agree with me, or you have a different opinion, leave town!!