Boom and Bust w my newer .22-250

Picked up a Ruger Anerican rifle. It’s the predator model. I topped it w a Vortex crossfire 4-12. The whole rig including rings and a box of 40 rounds cost me $620.
Black target is third session. First 3 were flyers. Unexplainable. Second 3 (just right of center) are respectable. (ALL shots desceibed are from 193 yards) These were from my lead sled and there was exactly that much left to right breeze.
The orange target is this morning. Got some nice sandbags to shoot off of.
Could not be more pleased w a sub .4″ group. At 193 yds. With a $600 rig. And factory ammo(Winchester varmintX. 55gr) It’s also the first rig ive set up completely by myself. So I’m proud and really pleased w that first group.
It was short lived. Second 3 are above in triangle. Third 3 have crosses. Even worse.
I clicked up 2 (1/4 MOA per click) after first 3. Back down 2 clicks after second 3 shots. Should have never touched it.
I think it’s called vertical stringing. I don’t get it. Confusing to say the least.
I’d be interested what Randy W and Grouse think of it all.
I hope my descriptions are clear. I’m newer at this and I’m only about 85% on my terms and processes.
The rifle needs a new trigger. This and my .17 both have accutriggers. I’m not a fan. Seems unnecessary. And I need to push some handloads through it.
I’m about to plunge into the Galaxy of handloading.
If the wind doesn’t blow, I’ll shoot tomorrow afternoon after skiing. Hopefully w some more consistent results.
Any thoughts or input would be greatly appreciated.

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a couple of thoughts here,make sure your scope rings are tight as they may have worked loose on you,this includes the bases.

either video yourself when shooting,or have someone watch you to make certain you are not jumping the trigger,or pulling the rifle when you do.

some rifles,although I have never had it happen on my M77 varmit in 220,may need several rounds shot through it before it settles in.

factory loads are fairly consistent or have been in my book,but you will never achieve the level of accuracy you seek if you dont start reloading on your own.
this way you can dial in the bullets weight and powder charge to find the sweet spot your rifle.
I have seen even among identical rifles of the same caliber not shoot the same way with the same round.

it will take some tinkering,when you get it dialed in,let us know!!

I own the ruger american in a 7mm-08. Absolute tack driver. The trigger on it is adjustable i would recommend making it lighter before saying the trigger is bad. I do actually have the same scope as well and love the setup. Although I do hand load for mine i got fantastic results with factory ammo as well.

Looking at the targets to me it looks like you are not squeezing your trigger, I spent 30+ years in Army and seen may on the range with the same results. after instructing them to squeeze and not jerk the trigger things come around.

I there is one thing to remember when the round goes off it should almost scare you. Good luck, practice often.

1. Make sure EVERYthing is mechanically correct. Torque on your bases, rings, and so on.
2. Trigger – should release to the touch, not pull or squeeze, or push. Trigger Mechanics, like stated above are probably greater than 50% of the problem with inconsistent shooting. A very good way if your alone is to set up a video camera while the gun is shot from a lead sled or bench and record your motion. Amazing how many guys thing they are touching the trigger when they squint and squeeze.
3. My #1 reason for flyers is neck tension. When I’m loading, I’ll get that 1 round in X amount that just didn’t feel right. Bullet may pressed in to easy, too hard, didn’t start evenly….just not the same. I’ll sharpie an X on the brass and see what it does at the range. Interesting enough, I’ll be shooting 1 raged hole at 100yrds then drop a X round in and have a flyer. I shoot very little factory ammo anymore. But I have always noticed that some ammo was considerable more consistent than other brands when it came to flyers.
4. what other brands of ammo did you test? Most guys I know shooting a 250 (including myself) has had better success with hornady and 55gr in the upper end of the FPS range.

I know it’s frustrating Montucky, when you get a new rifle and it’s not what you wanted it to be out of the box, but hang in there. There is every chance this one is salvageable, the American is a great rifle and as Carter says, they are known to be shooters.

To be honest, looking at the groups, the problem is pretty obvious. IMO, this is probably going to come down to tightening up the nut behind the stock. Don’t get out a wrench, I’m talking about you.

Everything to me looks like the trigger yips. You’re jerking. I also see some wind issues, but I’m about 80 sure it’s not the rifle. Not making fun or anything, just pointing out that as good as our rifles, optics, and ammo are these days, the person doing the shooting still matters.

But let’s start from the beginning. A couple of suggestions, both building on what Randy said and a few of my own.

The Rifle:
1. Gun mechanics. Check the scope mounts. Don’t over-tighten, but IMO this is worth a teardown to make sure everything is right. IMO, it is worth using Loctite Blue on all scope screws.

Check scope base-to-rifle screws, and then remount rings. If you have not already checked ring parallel, use a straightedge to make sure the ring-to-ring axis is perfectly straight. Make sure crosshairs are level using leveling tool or jig, and remount scope.

2. Trigger. The Ruger trigger is adjustable, but don’t go nuts with making it too light. IMO, circa 4 pounds is fine for a hunting trigger. Adjust it carefully, but from what I’ve seen, the Ruger triggers probably ship at around 5-6 pounds.

On the range:

1. I know it’s fun to shoot at 200, but we need to walk before we run here. Get 2-3 boxes of the different ammo types, and set up at 100 yards. We need to eliminate some variables here to get you on track. At 200, wind is much more of a factor and mistakes in form and technique are also amplified. Staying at 100 will minimize these issues so we can see more easily what’s happening.

2. Zero the rifle again. Start at 50 if necessary, then more to 100. Allow the barrel to cool after sighting.

3. Now it’s time to test ammo. At 100 yards, fire 5 shot real groups. REPEAT 5 shot groups. Real groups have 5 shots because 5 shots shows all the flaws.

Frankly, there is really no such thing as a “flyer”. This mystical term implies something out of the blue and beyond control. All variances in consistency come down to the same things: Shooter, conditions, rifle, ammo. A flyer is still part of a group, we need to figure out how to shoot the best groups under all circumstances.

Do not fiddle with the scope turrets during these tests. Set it and forget it. What we’re looking for is CONSISTENCY of groups. Weather those groups are high/low/left/right matters not, it’s how tight they are that counts.

When shooting, focus on hitting a spot on a spot on the target. Don’t just try to hit the center, try to hit a bug sized spot on the center. Squeeze straight back on the trigger.

Come back to us with two groups of five shots from each of 2 to 3 different ammo brands. We’ll get it figured out.

Grouse

When shooting, focus on hitting a spot on a spot on the target. Don’t just try to hit the center, try to hit a bug sized spot on the center. Squeeze straight back on the trigger.

I agree and this doesn’t get discussed much. Aim small/miss small – When shooting under 300 yrds at a 1″ dot, I think its too big and gives you a lot of room for error when comparing loads. I put about 1/4″ mark in the center to give me something much smaller to focus on

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Randy Wieland wrote:

When shooting, focus on hitting a spot on a spot on the target. Don’t just try to hit the center, try to hit a bug sized spot on the center. Squeeze straight back on the trigger.

I agree and this doesn’t get discussed much. Aim small/miss small – When shooting under 300 yrds at a 1″ dot, I think its too big and gives you a lot of room for error when comparing loads. I put about 1/4″ mark in the center to give me something much smaller to focus on

I also think that focusing on a spot on a spot, helps reduce the yips by giving the mind something more intense to focus on. By making yourself really “see” the exact spot on the target you’re trying to hit, other mental noise is blocked out.

IMO this skill is even more helpful when you bring it into hunting. by trying to hit a hair on an animal instead of just a general “spot”, I find myself NOT thinking about the fact that my fingers are cold, or I hope the animal doesn’t turn the wrong way, or a stick is poking me in the leg, or…

Also, for those that are reading along on this thread, another point I wanted to bring up is that the OP is showing us another good thing here. In this day/age when it seems everybody wants to be a “long range hunter” (whatever that is), it’s easy to lose sight of the fact that shooting at long ranges is HARD. That’s why I recommended that we back up to 100 yards for testing.

Gear is only one tiny part of the equation when it comes to shooting at 200 and beyond. The hardest thing for many shooters to grasp is that many factors that influence accuracy and shooting are exponential. A factor like wind may influence a shot by a fraction of an inch at 100. At 400, it can produce a foot or more of difference.

It’s the same thing with the shooter. A shooter who is over-gunned and recoil sensitive may still be able hit a big game vitals area at 100 off of a bench and sandbags. But at 250 off of shooting sticks, he’ll miss like he got beat with a missing stick.

Grouse

Grouse

Wind
Wind sucks. Ironic you brought up wind at 400yrds. After shooting a dime size hole at 100yrds, backed up to 400yrds with the 7RUM. Wind picked up and had some very nasty gusts. Our gauge shown sustained at 26.

Still the hardest thing for me to compensate for in the 500-1000yrd is wind. KUDOS to those that do it affectively.

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I really appreciate all the input.
After giving it some thought, I already decided that I:
-Need to break it down and start over. I know I torqued the ring screws to what they recommend, but im not sure about base screws. And I didn’t loktite
-need to go back to 100 yds.
-need start shooting 5 shot groups.

I think I shoot Less than 5 because that’s what I do when I sight in my STW each fall. And I’ve got magic handloads for it and I cherish each of them. I actually sight the STW in w one shot in the fall. It’s only been off once since 2000. But it’s an entirely different animal.

I’ll tear it down, loktite screws and start over.
I have a torque screwdriver. Was wondering what you guys recommend for torque on base to rifle screws and ring screws? Pretty sure the vortex rings told me exactly what to do, but not base.

I picked up a couple boxes of hornady
55 gr. So now I’ve got 2 types of ammo to test.
Can’t shoot until Friday sat Sunday.
I’ll report back w progress.

Many many thanks again for the input.

Montucky wrote:

I’ll tear it down, loktite screws and start over.
I have a torque screwdriver. Was wondering what you guys recommend for torque on base to rifle screws and ring screws? Pretty sure the vortex rings told me exactly what to do, but not base.

Scope base torque usually set by rifle maker and should be listed in the manual. Ring torque usually listed in scope manual.

Be sure to only use Loctite BLUE. The easily removable stuff.

After you get this rifle all sorted out, we’ll have to get you into reloading. You’re not burning up NEAR enough ammo. The .22-250 Owners Guild of America requires you to shoot at least 250 rounds a year or you have to give the rifle to another member who will take better care of it.

Grouse

A fire control system with drag in it could be causing inconsistent fire pin strikes,if the primers are set too deep in some cases and flush in others the deep ones could be fliers. Pull the bolt apart and give it a good cleaning.

Also the amount of pressure applied when setting the rifle into your shoulder will promote a vertical impact string – if you setup tight and give your rifle a lot of lovin the impact will be low. If you get into your rifle with very little pressure into the shoulder you will throw one high from the group.

Another common cause is over aiming, this happens to all levels in the shooting community, folks trying to shoot a tight group, trying for a perfect one hole bullet group and working through load development where every shot is the upmost important round. Folks will over aim, first off if you sence at any point that the shot is not going off – back out of it. If you force it you may get lucky but more then likely you will throw it.

Maybe some of this will help

JH

One question I have what scope do you have on this Savage?

When I am setting up a new to me rifle I like to shoot ladder tests. I usually have five different rounds ( same bullets case lengths seating depths only change is powder weight )loaded up and have 5 different targets set up. I shoot one of each round at a separate target, let the barrel cool then start with the last load I shot at the last target and run thru all five again. Let barrel cool and keep repeating until I have fired all my rounds. Me personally I like to do this at 200 yards it makes it easier for me to see the difference between loads using the ladder test it will spread the groups out a little more to see subtle differences..

TheFamousGrouse wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Montucky wrote:</div>

After you get this rifle all sorted out, we’ll have to get you into reloading. You’re not burning up NEAR enough ammo. The .22-250 Owners Guild of America requires you to shoot at least 250 rounds a year or you have to give the rifle to another member who will take better care of it.

Grouse

Grouse I hope this doesn’t mean I have to give mine away…..
I just did the unthinkable and took the scope off my .22-250 so I won’t be shooting for a bit, until I order the new scope.

As far as opinion on the OP, I found 50grain rounds to be preferred in my rifle,(Savage Axis), but I tried 3 brands and two grain weights to get there so like suggested find that factory ammo that it really likes to eat.

Nic Barker wrote:

rouse I hope this doesn’t mean I have to give mine away…..
I just did the unthinkable and took the scope off my .22-250 so I won’t be shooting for a bit, until I order the new scope.

Well, don’t let it happen 2 years running, or The Guild will come calling.

Grouse

More good advice
I’m going to try to get out this afternoon and or tomorrow morning to put it back through the motions.

I’m still puzzled how those first three shots patterned so nicely.

Grouse, if you knew how many different kinds of powder and how many bullets and brass and primers I’ve got for the 22-250,(not to mention all my STW and 44 mag components) you’d think I was a reloader. I’ve got a press and all the other things (I think), I’m just trying to get my buddy the mad reloader scientist over to give me some lessons. Soon I hope.

As far as losing my membership to the 22-250 owners guild, the gun is still pretty new. I can virtually guarantee that once I get it dialed in, I’ll have no problem putting at least 250 rounds through it.
I’d also like to think my charter memberships to both the 12ga owners guild and the 17 HMR guild get me somewhere.