Boat Price Reckoning

39degrees wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>B-man wrote:</div>

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>39degrees wrote:</div>

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>B-man wrote:</div>

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>supercat wrote:</div>

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>B-man wrote:</div>
When was the last time the price of anything new decreased???

Wait all you want, but it’s never happened before and will never happen in the future.

Incorrect 2008 everything fell in price even land! It’s not that long ago my prediction is 2023. The economy is just like the weather high’s low’s we have been in a high to long.

Did the price of NEW boats go down significantly??

The price of NEW trucks?

NEW atv’s/sleds?

Sure used equipment saw a price drop, but I don’t recall manufacturers making big cuts to MSRPs.

New cell phone in 1983 cost $4,000.00

Apples to Oranges. I’m taking about existing technology, not a brand new patented device available by only one manufacturer.

When a new 21′ boat with a 300hp costs $10,000 get back to me….

We’ll both have a good laugh and buy 10 of them

In 2009 a 6kw residential solar system cost $50,000 today it is $21,000

Again, that was and still is a “new” technology.

Everything is expensive before it’s prevalent.

Apples to oranges compared to a fishing boat. They’ve been around awhile….

If you think they’ll cost 50% less in 10 or 20 years I’ll have some of what you’re smoking lol

B-man wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>39degrees wrote:</div>

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>B-man wrote:</div>

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>39degrees wrote:</div>

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>B-man wrote:</div>

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>supercat wrote:</div>

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>B-man wrote:</div>
When was the last time the price of anything new decreased???

Wait all you want, but it’s never happened before and will never happen in the future.

Incorrect 2008 everything fell in price even land! It’s not that long ago my prediction is 2023. The economy is just like the weather high’s low’s we have been in a high to long.

Did the price of NEW boats go down significantly??

The price of NEW trucks?

NEW atv’s/sleds?

Sure used equipment saw a price drop, but I don’t recall manufacturers making big cuts to MSRPs.

New cell phone in 1983 cost $4,000.00

Apples to Oranges. I’m taking about existing technology, not a brand new patented device available by only one manufacturer.

When a new 21′ boat with a 300hp costs $10,000 get back to me….

We’ll both have a good laugh and buy 10 of them

In 2009 a 6kw residential solar system cost $50,000 today it is $21,000

Again, that was and still is a “new” technology.

Everything is expensive before it’s prevalent.

Apples to oranges compared to a fishing boat. They’ve been around awhile….

If you think they’ll cost 50% less in 10 or 20 years I’ll have some of what you’re smoking lol

The average price of gasoline in 2012 was $3.62, in 2020 it was $2.17

The boat market has been absolutely crazy the past few years, not just with the current covid situation. Here’s an interesting tidbit. My last 3 boats, a Skeeter, a Ranger, and my last Triton – seemingly “gained” value after owning them. I never took a loss on any of them and ran each one for 2 ish years. That should tell you how fast the prices of new boats are increasing. This year, prices and availability were pretty rough so I downsized. I’ve been pretty lucky to flip my boats with minimal to no loss but just didn’t see that being as plausible this time around. New president, covid, and an uncertain economy made me shy away from another big money boat. We’ll see how all of this shakes out.

bigpike wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>TheFamousGrouse wrote:</div>

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>olas88 wrote:</div>
When is the boat price reckoning coming? Over the last 5 or so years is seems like boat prices have skyrocketed above most other things. At some point this has to stall out. Any thoughts?

It’s a lot easier to sell a $70++++k boat to a guy when his only concern is that the payments are less than $150 a month. There isn’t one buyer in 100 that can tell you how much they really are paying for their boat in terms of purchase price

In order to get a $70,000 boat to $150 dollar payment you would need a 40 year loan and that’s not including tax and interest.
Just saying

Does that boat come with a facitious warning light on the console? Asking for a friend.

The fact that I put that obvious financing softball out there and you’re the first one in the entire thread to do the math, proves my point. The average buyer has no idea what they are actually paying or how to figure it out, they just want to hit a payment number.

TheFamousGrouse wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>bigpike wrote:</div>

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>TheFamousGrouse wrote:</div>

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>olas88 wrote:</div>
When is the boat price reckoning coming? Over the last 5 or so years is seems like boat prices have skyrocketed above most other things. At some point this has to stall out. Any thoughts?

It’s a lot easier to sell a $70++++k boat to a guy when his only concern is that the payments are less than $150 a month. There isn’t one buyer in 100 that can tell you how much they really are paying for their boat in terms of purchase price

In order to get a $70,000 boat to $150 dollar payment you would need a 40 year loan and that’s not including tax and interest.
Just saying

Does that boat come with a facitious warning light on the console? Asking for a friend.

The fact that I put that obvious financing softball out there and you’re the first one in the entire thread to do the math, proves my point. The average buyer has no idea what they are actually paying or how to figure it out, they just want to hit a payment number.

Bingo^

I almost feel awkward having a boat without a loan against it in current times.

buckybadger wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>TheFamousGrouse wrote:</div>

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>bigpike wrote:</div>

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>TheFamousGrouse wrote:</div>

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>olas88 wrote:</div>
When is the boat price reckoning coming? Over the last 5 or so years is seems like boat prices have skyrocketed above most other things. At some point this has to stall out. Any thoughts?

It’s a lot easier to sell a $70++++k boat to a guy when his only concern is that the payments are less than $150 a month. There isn’t one buyer in 100 that can tell you how much they really are paying for their boat in terms of purchase price

In order to get a $70,000 boat to $150 dollar payment you would need a 40 year loan and that’s not including tax and interest.
Just saying

Does that boat come with a facitious warning light on the console? Asking for a friend.

The fact that I put that obvious financing softball out there and you’re the first one in the entire thread to do the math, proves my point. The average buyer has no idea what they are actually paying or how to figure it out, they just want to hit a payment number.

Bingo^

I almost feel awkward having a boat without a loan against it in current times.

Not me. I worked hard to get this boat. I flipped my up from a entry level boat with a Force motor. After driving trucks that lost 1,000’s of dollars in depreciation I’m happy to have a boat not losing money. Does this mean I’m done? No I’ll flip this one into something else but it might take a bit longer. Last year I even considered downsizing so we will see what happens.

My only advice is if you have a growing family the time to make those memories is now. Those kids aren’t getting any younger and neither are you. It doesn’t take the biggest, fastest, or a shiniest boat, it just takes time. Buy what you can truly afford and go have fun.

What’s interesting to me is the fact that a guy can buy the right 15-20 year old boat, drive it for five years, clean it up, and sell it for what he paid (and maybe then some). That’s been the case for 10 years or so.

The only thing I’d bet will change the boat market is a significant rise in interest rates.

buckybadger wrote:

I almost feel awkward having a boat without a loan against it in current times.

Whaaaaaat??? You must have one of those little starter boats in the 18-foot range with only a 150 on the back I’m guessing? No other way you could not have a loan, right? I mean who DOES that?

As most guys on here know, my Skunkworks test boat last year was a new budget offering from a major maker. Nice little 24.5 footer that they intend to market to the casual weekend worm-drowner/family guy segment starting in 2024. Nice boat if you don’t mind sticking to smaller boats with lower HP. I tested it with a 400, but most guys will want to max it for resale value. Keep this rig in mind when you’re ready to upgrade.

john23 wrote:

What’s interesting to me is the fact that a guy can buy the right 15-20 year old boat, drive it for five years, clean it up, and sell it for what he paid (and maybe then some). That’s been the case for 10 years or so.

That’s what I did with my old Pro-V 4 years ago, owned it for 4 years and sold it for what I paid for it. But I’m still boatless now (by begrudging choice), so I fully support a reckoning in the next year or two. If it only hits the brand new 18′ windshield boats with max HP and good electronics, that’d be fine too. The used market has been appreciating based off of what I’m seeing, so we will likely buy new.

TheFamousGrouse wrote:

As most guys on here know, my Skunkworks test boat last year was a new budget offering from a major maker. Nice little 24.5 footer that they intend to market to the casual weekend worm-drowner/family guy segment starting in 2024. Nice boat if you don’t mind sticking to smaller boats with lower HP. I tested it with a 400, but most guys will want to max it for resale value. Keep this rig in mind when you’re ready to upgrade.

Heck, the $70K number being used as example in this thread will barely pay for the V12 600hp Merc,,,,,,

HRG

this site loves to turn every boat conversation into “loans are for idiots!” it’s a pathetic and reductive perspective. the idea that people who are financing a boat are stupid is flat wrong. they’re paying a bit more, but it’s less than many people think.

let’s say you buy a used high-end fiberglass boat for $50,000 and own it for 5 years at which point you sell it for $40,000 – this is pretty realistic length of ownership and depreciation in today’s market. we’ll ignore the annual costs of operation like gas/insurance/title/license/etc. as part of cost of ownership since these would be equivalent whether someone pays cash or finances.

amortization and ownership cost isn’t actually hard to figure out. let’s assume a loan of 15 years at 3% interest. over 5 years the cash advantage is $6476 or about $1300 per year.

so the question ultimately becomes:
is it worth $1300/year in financing to own this boat for 5 years? your answer is yours, someone else’s answer is theirs. i’ve owned a lot of boats, never kept one more than 4 years, paid cash for some, financed others, and never once regretted the times on the water with family and friends that it enabled me to enjoy. $1300/year in someone else’s budget just doesn’t seem like enough to get all up in your undies about.

now bring on that stimulus, daddy wants some new Mega Live Imaging!

OP: i believe used boat prices will come down in the next 3-4 years due to over-supply in the used market paired with higher interest rates. with today’s low interest rates i don’t think this will push many people underwater on their current loans, but the cost of money 5 years from now will be much higher and make upgrading tougher. this will exert downward/flattening pressure on new boat prices and give cash buyers a greater advantage than they hold currently.

Michael C. Winther wrote:

this site loves to turn every boat conversation into “loans are for idiots!” it’s a pathetic and reductive perspective. the idea that people who are financing a boat are stupid is flat wrong. they’re paying a bit more, but it’s less than many people think.
let’s say you buy a used high-end fiberglass boat for $50,000 and own it for 5 years at which point you sell it for $40,000 – this is pretty realistic length of ownership and depreciation in today’s market. we’ll ignore the annual costs of operation like gas/insurance/title/license/etc. as part of cost of ownership since these would be equivalent whether someone pays cash or finances.

amortization and ownership cost isn’t actually hard to figure out. let’s assume a loan of 15 years at 3% interest. over 5 years the cash advantage is $6476 or about $1300 per year.

I agree with you about financing, it’s a perfectly fine way to pay for things as long as it comfortably fits in a budget and you have your finances in order, which does not apply to a LOT of people. And your illustration is true (other than getting 3% interest on a boat), however that same person would have paid $20,717 in loan payments over 5 years and still had $35,503 remaining on their loan, and therefore only made $4,497 when they sold it for $40k. Which, you know, isn’t great.

Michael C. Winther wrote:

now bring on that stimulus, daddy wants some new Mega Live Imaging!

Now I’m really confused! How can the same person shopping for a Mega Live Imaging unit still be eligible for a stimulus check?

HRG

Hot Runr Guy wrote:

Now I’m really confused! How can the same person shopping for a Mega Live Imaging unit still be eligible for a stimulus check?

Ain’t that the truth, ha!

The other thing I think about is that there are fewer boat brands now but I don’t think the remaining ones have increased their production capacity at all. I think we have room for more boat manufacturers to appear again to keep up with demand and also fill in some of the gaps where existing makes might be missing.

I also think it’s good that the doom and gloom over how fewer people are fishing seems to have quieted. Even if it is the older guys who are buying these expensive boats, the boats these guys trade in go to the younger ones. So that’s good news, too.

BigWerm wrote:

(other than getting 3% interest on a boat)

It’s not far off. I got a 5-yr at 3.74% on a used boat last summer. A buddy is shopping now, and they were at 3.49%.

I just sold my 2005 Lund and sold it for $1300 less than I bought it for new. Crazy!!

Ralph Wiggum wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>BigWerm wrote:</div>
(other than getting 3% interest on a boat)

It’s not far off. I got a 5-yr at 3.74% on a used boat last summer. A buddy is shopping now, and they were at 3.49%.

Dang, that is surprising and awesome! I checked some online rates and 3.99% was the lowest I saw. I’m running out of reasons to hold off…

BigWerm wrote:

Dang, that is surprising and awesome!

Wings Financial, my friend.

Michael C. Winther wrote:

this site loves to turn every boat conversation into “loans are for idiots!” it’s a pathetic and reductive perspective. the idea that people who are financing a boat are stupid is flat wrong. they’re paying a bit more, but it’s less than many people think.

let’s say you buy a used high-end fiberglass boat for $50,000 and own it for 5 years at which point you sell it for $40,000 – this is pretty realistic length of ownership and depreciation in today’s market. we’ll ignore the annual costs of operation like gas/insurance/title/license/etc. as part of cost of ownership since these would be equivalent whether someone pays cash or finances.

I don’t think “boat loans are for idiots” or you are somehow an inferior member of society for taking on a boat loan. I believe there plenty of legitimate reasons to take on a boat loan – the most obvious of which is you only get a finite amount of time to build memories with kids at a certain ages etc. I took out a 3-year loan on my first boat and have no regrets.

The reason for many people’s aversion to boat loans is its generally not advisable to finance non-essential depreciating assets. Even in today’s market you are going to be “underwater” (no pun intended) on that 15-year loan for the first few years. Boat loans, just like car loans, drive people into buying beyond their means just because they can afford the payment. There’s a reason 61% of Americans cannot afford to cover an unexpected $1,000 expense.

Under the scenario you mention you are basically paying to rent a fancy boat. If you keep doing this every 5 years for say 30 years, you are giving up around $500,000 that could be sitting in a retirement account. If you are fine with that, go for it, but its not an effective strategy to build wealth.

Supply and demand. Lately demand has been higher then supply so prices sky rocket. Unfortunately you won’t likely see those prices drop much if ever

The used market has been unlike anything I have seen. The new boat prices really have changed by comparison…. Most have been in that 2% increase range…

Used boat market has well surpassed 2 % !

Remarkable to see some boats that we sold in 2012 be sell for nearly what they paid for them …assuming well mainted condition.

mnfisherman18 wrote:

Under the scenario you mention you are basically paying to rent a fancy boat. If you keep doing this every 5 years for say 30 years, you are giving up around $500,000 that could be sitting in a retirement account. If you are fine with that, go for it, but its not an effective strategy to build wealth.

well, sort of, because paying cash for a boat every 5 years isn’t an “effective strategy to build wealth” either. boats are toys, not investments. it’s a matter of how much you can pay for your toy, not whether or not it’s a good investment – because they never are.

the Dave Ramsey approach to never having any debt is best for those who struggle to meet their monthly needs and it’s appealing simplicity doesn’t apply to everyone. for example, if all the bills are paid on time, a safety fund sits in savings, there’s no credit card debt, the college fund is full, and you’re on track to retire comfortably? in that case i suppose you can tolerate paying some interest to “rent a fancy boat.” because fancy boats are fun…

Got a hell of a deal on my warrior. It’s a 2016, I’m seeing 2013s sell for more. Put half down on the boat and financed the rest for a couple years. Then I’ll turn around and find another one that’s a couple years old. Buying a boat with good resale value helps too. No reason I couldn’t turn this boat around and sell it for what I have into it plus some. That being said I might keep it for 5 years. Not much is changing in terms of boats. Just electronics.

Boats last a heckuva long time. In reality you buy a “right sized” quality boat from any manufacturer it will outlive most middle aged people. The issue in the past was the outboard. Now the outboards may outlast the boats themselves. I remember when 4 strokes first came out lots of guys were keeping their boats and just repowering them. Now with the 4 strokes and much improved 2 strokes they dont really even need to do that. I bought my boat 11 years ago now. It was brand new but a leftover model so I saved a ton! I thought it would be a boat that would get me to retirement and I am in my 40’s. If the used market is as strong as it is, I might considering upgrading.

In regards to financing a boat I think it all depends on how you view it and what your financial situation is. I financed my new boat but paid cash for all electronics and accessories (about $6k) I also went less years on the loan. I could pay cash for the whole thing but for a few thousand in interest over the coarse of the loan it’s worth having the 10’s of thousands in the bank for that what if. That’s just me though I feel better knowing the money is there if I need it. Point is not everyone that finances their toys are because they are poor or bad with money, but I know there are people that it’s all about the payment not the total price paid with interest.

Stanley wrote:

In regards to financing a boat I think it all depends on how you view it and what your financial situation is. I financed my new boat but paid cash for all electronics and accessories (about $6k) I also went less years on the loan. I could pay cash for the whole thing but for a few thousand in interest over the coarse of the loan it’s worth having the 10’s of thousands in the bank for that what if. That’s just me though I feel better knowing the money is there if I need it. Point is not everyone that finances their toys are because they are poor or bad with money, but I know there are people that it’s all about the payment not the total price paid with interest.

That’s exactly what I did when I bought my boat too. I could have paid cash, but why? What if something major came up? I paid it off early too. Cash is king, its better to have it than not have a nest egg IMO.

Just out of curiosity- anyone have an idea on how much a 1992 Ranger 690 C with a 91 Evinrude Intruder 150 would have cost new? It not even on a Ranger Trailer.

Very good discussion on the last 8 or 9 posts!

Thanks

Steve

My humble opinion:

Go for it-life is too short-if you can afford a 100000 dollar boat and your wife agrees more power to you. My wife would show me the door. Ha Ha

A lot of people make a lot of money. More power to them.

A little bit of keeping up with the Jones taking place.

For the last 27 years I have fished out of a 1994 hand-tiller Ranger- paid 18000 new- now powered by a whooping 60 horse Mercury. Absolutely love it. Couldn’t even imagine how many fish came over side of that boat. Sentimental value of that boat through the roof. Could never sell it. I’ll die with that boat. I guess I’m not the best for the economy and boat dealers.

In conclusion if you can afford a 100000 dollar boat good for you. You deserve it.

A couple thoughts. Wings financial is great for boat loans. Look them up.

If you worked hard to get awesome credit so you can get great interest rates on loans, do it, this is your reward. Be smart about it though, put some money down and don’t do a loan with an overly long term.

Lastly, anyone that says financing a boat is stupid yet finances a car is a huge hypocrite. One basically maintains value, the other drops precipitously.