Bluegills

This weekend I witnessed the obliteration of a lake that generally has little pressure. The word got out that guys were catching buckets of 9-10+ inch gills and the herd came running. I realize that some guys travel a long way to go fishing but with how many limits are coming out I can’t help but to think the lake will be stunted now. Do any states have a ‘slot’ for gills or a catch and release season during May and June to protect them during the spawn at least? There are some locals that go out there every day and do the same thing. How in the world can these people be educated about the hurt they are causing by keeping so many big gills? I don’t mean they shouldn’t keep any. I don’t know what the best situation would be.

http://www.bassresource.com/fish_biology/bluegill.html

That happened to a tiny pond in SW metro. Never been the same since.

I don’t think catch and release for gills would work IMO. Too many would end up dying after the release and since you aren’t keeping them, there is no limit to how many you would actually kill. Sure, it would be a lot less than if the season was open, I’ll give you that. I’m not sure it would help.

I know its a fricken shame. Good gill waters are so hard to find these days. I used to keep 3-6 every once in a rare while. I still just enjoy catching them. Then there were days when I was forced to keep and eat because they were just too aggressive.

mplspug wrote:

Then there were days when I was forced to keep and eat because they were just too aggressive.

It’s amazing how far they will suck a leech down before you can set the hook during the spawn…

I never thought about the release mortality. That’s a good point. I would at least like to see reduced limits.

It’s sad to see/hear. We joke (reluctantly) when we see a lake we know to hold fish covered in fish houses when there usually aren’t people fishing them. It’s a standing joke, “oh, somebody must have caught a fish.”

I’ve seen the freezer fillers kill more than one lake on more than one occasion.

We currently have a tight group of fishing friends that we even keep information from each other from time to time. There is one lake a buddy won’t bring me to (where he’s catching big crappie) because he was giving that info with the trust that he wouldn’t share it. We honor those requests among fisherman.

It’s a shame when this happens, been there brother.

Jeffrey Trapp wrote:

I would at least like to see reduced limits.

You’ll get no argument from me on any regulation aimed at helping bluegills.

You’d think at the bottom or the low end of the food chain, their management could be more important than any other species. I can think of a few lakes that had nice size gills, crowds came in, big fish went away, crowds went away and you think after a few years everything will go back to normal. It doesn’t. The fish become stunted and it probably takes decades for the ecology to get back to what it was, if it ever does. It just messes everything up.

It’d be nice if you could do a all over 8.5″ or 9″ must go back rule, but the public won’t ever go for that. And it really isn’t possible to enforce as a statewide law.

Sorry, I’m being a little downer. Probably the post I saw today of a shorebird dead with a hook and line wrapped around it. My faith in some “fishermen” is low today.

Project legal limit shaming initiate!

We need lower limits and we need to go to a system where some species are “tag” species where you are allowed only so many for the entire year, not just in possession.

Panfish limits are still WAY too high to allow for sustainable fishing in areas that get any pressure at all.

Add to that the belief that many freezer fillers out there still have that as long as they don’t keep over “the limit” each day they can have as many fish in the freezer as they want.

We also need WAY more game wardens in MN. I would gladly pay an extra fee for each license I buy if it went directly to adding enforcement officers. I strongly suspect that the numbers of over-the-limit anglers are vastly under estimated. You look at the reports of who DOES get caught and you have to know they are only catching the drop in the bucket.

Grouse

There is little doubt in my mind that the number of people who possess more than they are allowed is a huge problem and only a fraction of a fraction get caught.

And I suspect that the gills are probably the most common species people are possessing over the limit, even more than walleye.

I would love to see some tighter limits on Bluegills and Crappies statewide. 5 fish with just one over 9″ for Bluegills. 5 fish with just 1 over 12-1/2 for Crappies is what I promote.

That would be awesome Phil. I can’t imagine some fisheries if they were managed like that.

I’ve been working at trying to get special regs applied to a local lake here in SE Minnesota. The lake has a great large Crappie and large Bluegill base but the lake is also one that gets absolutely pummeled. The DNR and a friend and I sat down for some discussion and came up with an idea with a 10 fish panfish limit that could include no more than 5 crappies, 5 sunfish, and or 10 perch in any aggregate. Its tough to get this stuff enacted. Of course as soon as an idea something like this is made public, the flak starts. And its always the ones that will have to give up the most that make all the negative noise. [if only the co’s would start watching the noise-makers while they’re on the water every day….after day….after day]

I’d really like to see two sets of winter rules. Maybe have a primitive license endorsement that can be attached to the regular license at the time of purchase and more liberal limits for those who choose to fish without shelters, heaters, flashers, snowmobiles, atvs, power augers or those who utilize sleeper rentals from resorts. People possessing any of the goodies be required to pay a winter fee, and have limits reduced by 50%.

This is 2016. Nobody needs a ton of fish in a freezer. And honestly, the current rates of harvest made available by all the technology should warrant having a winter season a month long during January and then be closed for all species until an open water season opens again on April 1st for panfish.

mplspug wrote:

That happened to a tiny pond in SW metro. Never been the same since.

I don’t think catch and release for gills would work IMO. Too many would end up dying after the release and since you aren’t keeping them, there is no limit to how many you would actually kill. Sure, it would be a lot less than if the season was open, I’ll give you that. I’m not sure it would help.

I know its a fricken shame. Good gill waters are so hard to find these days. I used to keep 3-6 every once in a rare while. I still just enjoy catching them. Then there were days when I was forced to keep and eat because they were just too aggressive.

pug, I guess I question your catch and release and not surviving theory???? I’ve caught tons of gills and released as many and very rarely see one come back up floating. even fishing the same lake same area more then once? can you elaborate.

In South Dakota, you can keep 15 each: Crappies, Bluegills, and Perch. That’s 45 freaking fish a day, per guy. (90 combined for a weekend) Many times the bite is good enough on all three species for anglers to pull it off.

What I would like to see is a 15 fish daily limit for COMBINED Panfish and perch. People don’t come out to SD for the meat, they come because of the quality of fishing overall that we have. With the current pressure over the past few years, the quality is very apparent to be on a decline. Let’s do something about it before we become MN/IA 2.0

Just my $.02
Andy

glenn57 wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>mplspug wrote:</div>
That happened to a tiny pond in SW metro. Never been the same since.

I don’t think catch and release for gills would work IMO. Too many would end up dying after the release and since you aren’t keeping them, there is no limit to how many you would actually kill. Sure, it would be a lot less than if the season was open, I’ll give you that. I’m not sure it would help.

I know its a fricken shame. Good gill waters are so hard to find these days. I used to keep 3-6 every once in a rare while. I still just enjoy catching them. Then there were days when I was forced to keep and eat because they were just too aggressive.

pug, I guess I question your catch and release and not surviving theory???? I’ve caught tons of gills and released as many and very rarely see one come back up floating. even fishing the same lake same area more then once? can you elaborate.

Maybe I’ll have to rethink my train of thought. That may have been a bit of hyperbole. The can just remember wanting to just fish for gills many a time, but having to bring some back. It probably happens around the spawn more and summer. Didn’t seem to matter how quick I set the hook, it was deep when they came in.

if and when I get one of those deep hook sets and I know that fish will die it goes in the live well. they fry up as well. sunfish is my main fish to eat!

WI panfish regulations are going into effect April,1,2016 there are roughly 100 lakes in the state now with new and panfish specific regulations that target overharvest of big fish and the spawning period.

http://dnr.wi.gov/topic/fishing/outreach/panfishplan.html

That’s the link to the DNR Site explaining the new regs. I know its not MN, but its something that shows a step in the right direction.

WDNR asked about a couple different panfish regulation changes in the spring meetings the last couple years but nothing has changed yet. One of the proposals was 25 panfish but no more than 10 of any one species. Example:10 crappie, 10 gills, 5 perch would be legal. Some guys I know cried like you were taking their last meal away. A couple of them asked me what I thought of such a regulation. Told them I didn’t like it. All agreed with me UNTIL I said it should be 15. Wow did that set them off. Some of them just don’t get it.

Unfortunately, there’s likely no solution you could effectively enforce. Realistically, you’re looking at trying to get the message out as has been done in this thread.

First – read this –
http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/fish/sunfish/management.html

Our panfish fisheries continue to fight old standards regarding bluegill proliferation. Historically, most anglers considered “thinning the herd” a necessity to bluegill angling; such that in order to have trophy fish, you needed to take alot of fish. We know that now to not be the case, but it’s still difficult to change old attitudes.

Special regulations for gills in our state, when first announced, faced a few major battles. The first being that now, anglers had lists to the top producing panfish waters in the state. Second, were they to work, they would likely take years to feel real and long-lasting effect. The third, and further reaching, is that panfish anglers did not support such changes. Worse, many concluded that should special regulations be effective in achieving an overall increase in fish size, they would resolve to fish harder and more often, thus increasing the overall exploitation rate. http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1577/1548-8675(1999)019%3C0515%3AAOOBMA%3E2.0.CO%3B2

That study is over 15 years old, and though we have increasing proof to the effectiveness of special regulations for gills (http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/02755947.2014.1001929), many of those old attitudes still remain.

To the point, where should all of our wildest dreams come true, and bluegill sizes increase in all of the special regs. lakes that support trophy fish, will it matter? Bag limits will be smaller here, true. But will angler attitudes now, just as they did back in 1999, simply shift towards increased effort focused on a popular list of lakes, return trips, and effectively less limits…..yet all of trophy fish and many more of them? Both the path we’re on, and that path arrive at the same destination.

That’s why I remain a proponent of regulations similar to what Phil mentioned. 5 fish limits with 1-over a certain length limit. Only then can we not only reduce the numbers of fish taken, but reduce the overall size distribution of the ones that ARE taken. It’s difficult for most people to fathom, but five, 7″ bluegills when not being the only thing eaten, can effectively feed a family of 4. Fresh fish is a treat, and should be respected as such. Regulations are only part of the process, as prevailing thoughts, old ways, and resulting attitudes are the hardest change to effect.

Joel

not only does overfishing does this. real story, our family has a cabin on lake X. UP NORTH. SINCE 1965. LOADED WITH 3/4 TO 1 LB gills. about 15 years ago it froze out….hard! haven’t seen one like it since. its coming back and the gills are slowly getting bigger but……….over fishing isn’t the only culprit!

I would be up for 200, 300, 400, hell, 1000% increase in price for a fishing license if it meant more officers on the ice. Heck, even part time, weekend only officers.

There are people that fish 100s or 1000s of hours a year and they are charged what, $22 for a fishing license? It’s incredible value. I’ve been saying it for years, if they upped the price by $50 it would add ~$53 million in sales. At $35k a year(let’s just round it to $50k when you consider benefits), that’s another 1070 COs. Each of them gets 10 lakes to cover right?

Haha not that easy, but I think you get the point. If there was higher visibility and enforcement of limits it’d help.

Create a tip line app that lets you input an estimated gps location of the person your a calling about through your phone’s gps.

I don’t know, something needs to be done. Do a statewide freezer check of every fishing license holding individual in the state, guarantee you’d find about 10 million pounds of over-limit frozen fish by the time you’re done. Start at LOTW, Red, Leech, Mille Lacs and Winny and watch the fines accumulate! Put a little ticker on the dnr website so everyone can see the number grow and a list of all the offenders.

Tom Sawvell wrote:

People possessing any of the goodies be required to pay a winter fee, and have limits reduced by 50%.

I’m all for changing panfish regs to evolve with the changing times, but why do I have to pay a winter fee to fish with my heater? Can’t we just reduce limits and leave it at that? I’m confused where this fee comes into play on those who fish with current industry technology?

I find myself agreeing with the decisions to put more regs on panfish, I don’t generally keep more than 15 anyway and I have enough for two meals from those 15 fish. I think the no more than x amount of one species to combine for a limit of 15 or 25 proposals are the easiest to enforce and probably the simplest to follow. Not that I wouldn’t do it if it becomes a regulation but in all honesty who actually wants to measure panfish? The difficulty with changing regulations is the ease of enforceability and compliance, the average ice fishing panfishermen does not want to be forced to stop and measure his bluegill before he tosses it on the ice for dinner. It is much easier for him to count to a smaller number and have a smaller limit.

A lot of these new regulations come in light of discoveries in the bluegill life history, such as there are three different routes of life the males can take. There are parental or Bull gills which are your large deep colored males who guard the nest. Then there are smaller males known as satellite’s that are similar to females in appearance and they enter a parental males nest site along with a female posing as a two for one special untill the funny business starts at which point he will fertilize the females eggs and scram before the parental male knows what’s up. Then the third option is the smallest males these males are small and mature fast and they specialize in zipping into and out of the nests at the exact right moments to fertilize eggs without any extra involvement. The research into how the life history plays out for bluegill has become the basis for realizing the damage taking too many larger fish from a population.

Minnesota had a 10 fish limit on bluegills on 4 or 5 pools on the Mississippi for probably 10 years. Wisconsin had a 25 fish limit on the same pools. You could dock your boat on the Wisconsin, fish the Minnesota side of the river and catch your 10 then go to the Wisconsin side and catch 15 more and load back out in Wisconsin. I asked a C.O. about this once and he said they weren’t concerned about overharvest of panfish. Now Minnesota has changed those pools back to a 25 fish limit.

My opinion is 10 fish per day is more than enough.

Tom Sawvell wrote:

I’d really like to see two sets of winter rules. Maybe have a primitive license endorsement that can be attached to the regular license at the time of purchase and more liberal limits for those who choose to fish without shelters, heaters, flashers, snowmobiles, atvs, power augers or those who utilize sleeper rentals from resorts. People possessing any of the goodies be required to pay a winter fee, and have limits reduced by 50%.

When this regulation is enacted hopefully it will include our native american friends spearing and gill-netting out of birch-bark canoes with pine pitch torches for light.

Nic Barker wrote:

http://dnr.wi.gov/topic/fishing/outreach/panfishplan.html

That’s the link to the DNR Site explaining the new regs. I know its not MN, but its something that shows a step in the right direction.

I like the concept of this, especially the regs that protect the spawning fish. That is where I see most double bagging and possession limit violations.
However, when looking at the list of WI lakes, it was disappointing to see that the vast majority are destination lakes. We really encounter 2 major types of fishing pressure in WI. 1. Destination fishing 2. Metro lakes
1. Destination fishing is what I consider when its a lake that receives most of its pressure from people going on vacation. As an example: Late Friday afternoon/evening and you see the thousands of anglers pouring into the Arbor Vitae, Boulder Junction area. Its no joke. I can stop and fill the boat with gas at the intersection of HWY 70 & 51 on a Friday evening 6ish pm and it can take 10 minutes just to get out of the parking lot. But many of these anglers spend a huge amount of money to go fishing for the week, they planned it around the crappie spawn, and they are dam well entitled to bring a weeks worth of fish home for the freezer. Sickening, but i see so much of it. The CO’s can only catch so many people, and ethically, you can only turn them in when you KNOW they are doing it. I don’t believe in calling them in because I THINK they are. Not all vacationers do this, but there is a lot of them.

2. Metro – anything within a 45 minute ride from major population densities. Milwaukee, Racine,….. Its just a volume of anglers that you get because its close to home. They may individually catch less, but having 1000’s of them on 1 lake for a weekend is too much. Do you limit access to the lake to counter this???

Complex issue and there isn’t a single fix-all answer

rkd-jim wrote:

hopefully it will include our native american friends spearing and gill-netting out of birch-bark canoes with pine pitch torches for light.

AMEN

I have always thought that a “volume” limit would work well for pannies.

Take a set volume – perhaps a standard 1-gallon ice cream pail. That’s your limit….. if you are getting 12″ crappies, maybe you could stand 5 of them in it…… if you are into keeping tiny potato chip fish, take 30….who cares? Ice cream pails for everyone!!

Seriously – wouldn’t a limit help more if it were self-regulating like this? lots of tiny panfish……or a few big ones…. wouldn’t that be beneficial to sustaining a lake?

I am in favor of reducing most limits.