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also – the river isn’t inland waters…
That’s what I gather from the “official” ruling..
Interesting debate
I’m well aware the river isn’t inland water. The post above IS however the rule for inland waters.
I have read this entire post before posting this reply. I have known Karen and Howie Lee for many years. I have fished with them both and against them both. If Karen culled in this event, it was because it was allowed by tourney officials………..Howie also said he culled fish to finish 1st on the co-angler side. These are stand up people and I take offense at the way some of you are bashing them. Where you part of the tourney??? Where you at the pre-tourney meeting where rules were discussed????? Unless you were there and have fist hand knowledge/info you might want to keep your trap shut until all the facts are out.
Arnie Nichols
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I have read this entire post before posting this reply. I have known Karen and Howie Lee for many years. I have fished with them both and against them both. If Karen culled in this event, it was because it was allowed by tourney officials………..Howie also said he culled fish to finish 1st on the co-angler side. These are stand up people and I take offense at the way some of you are bashing them. Where you part of the tourney??? Where you at the pre-tourney meeting where rules were discussed????? Unless you were there and have fist hand knowledge/info you might want to keep your trap shut until all the facts are out.
Arnie Nichols
Good Point! 
The whole culling issue has been rather unclear on river tourneys for a long time now – Maybe this issue will clear it up, or force tourney’s to make it clear in their rules and at the pre-tourney meeting. As far as this issue goes the DNR was contacted and ask to respond and found no laws were broken – the tourney director reviewed the situation and does not believe any tourney rules were broken, so I guess thats as clear as it needs to be – For me at least.
She probably wouldn’t be receiving this kind of bad press if it wasn’t for the scene that was made at the La Crosse tournament. What kind of “stand up” person looks someone in the eye and says “I hope you can’t sleep at night for what you did, if that’s only the worst that happens to you.” That sounds like wishing ill upon people that cull…I know this for a fact because she said it to ME and a few other people that were holding a conversation about the issue. I don’t care how nice she is off the water or as a “mother” or whatever…bottom line is, she made a stink and now is being a HYPOCRITE! Whether or not it was stated in the rules doesn’t matter. She knows the regulation of the state and was heavily opposed to breaking it just 5 short months ago. If she was a true stand up person who stands by their beliefs, she would have upheld the same standards, realizing that the tournament director was relaying false information. (What does a tournament director from New York know about the culling laws anyway?) I’m not saying she should be chastised for culling. It is usually a common practice, people just follow the don’t ask don’t tell rule. However, you can’t try to throw other people under the bus for it and then turn around and do it yourself, gloating that you culled 10 times… That’s just stupid. Hopefully the DNR gives her a lil Sumpn’ Sumpn’.
On another note, I have seen this angler on the water “pre-fishing” for these events, and I have yet to see her alone in the boat. Usually it is a very specific individual that is always accompanying her. In fact, I once saw the FLW Tour/Series Pro angler driving her boat for her near the top of Big Lake on Pool 4. It must be nice to have a veteran plugging GPS points and tracks in your unit for you, so all you have to do in the tournament is connect the dots!
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She probably wouldn’t be receiving this kind of bad press if it wasn’t for the scene that was made at the La Crosse tournament. What kind of “stand up” person looks someone in the eye and says “I hope you can’t sleep at night for what you did, if that’s only the worst that happens to you.” That sounds like wishing ill upon people that cull…I know this for a fact because she said it to ME and a few other people that were holding a conversation about the issue. I don’t care how nice she is off the water or as a “mother” or whatever…bottom line is, she made a stink and now is being a HYPOCRITE! Whether or not it was stated in the rules doesn’t matter. She knows the regulation of the state and was heavily opposed to breaking it just 5 short months ago. If she was a true stand up person who stands by their beliefs, she would have upheld the same standards, realizing that the tournament director was relaying false information. (What does a tournament director from New York know about the culling laws anyway?) I’m not saying she should be chastised for culling. It is usually a common practice, people just follow the don’t ask don’t tell rule. However, you can’t try to throw other people under the bus for it and then turn around and do it yourself, gloating that you culled 10 times… That’s just stupid. Hopefully the DNR gives her a lil Sumpn’ Sumpn’.
On another note, I have seen this angler on the water “pre-fishing” for these events, and I have yet to see her alone in the boat. Usually it is a very specific individual that is always accompanying her. In fact, I once saw the FLW Tour/Series Pro angler driving her boat for her near the top of Big Lake on Pool 4. It must be nice to have a veteran plugging GPS points and tracks in your unit for you, so all you have to do in the tournament is connect the dots!
“don’t ask, don’t tell rule” ?
I don’t think you guys are recruiting many members with this
thread.
Ok to clear this cull issue up here it is. I spoke with Tom Hemker the C.O. For the winona area and was told this. Culling on the Mississippi is ILLEGAL it is legal on inland water so long as you DON’T have a legal limit of fish in your live well. Once you have that legal limit of fish in the live well culling is no longer legal. He also told me that he spoke to David Hagood at the ABA and advised him that culling on the Mississippi is ILLEGAL. He also stated he has received calls about this past weekends tournament and an investigation as been going on since Monday.
Here is what the MN/WI rule is taken from page 58 in the MN Regulations.
• It is illegal to cull
Every angler in the tournament briefing knew this, but when Joe said it was OK to cull, they all kept silent thinking they could get away with something. Everyone culls on the river, they just know better then to broadcast it.
Karen made the mistake of being honest about it and then ABA put it on their website. As a result she may get a ticket. It is likely the CO will interview her co-anglers. The best that can come from this and I hope it does, is that maybe a court challenge could get the rule changed. The Wisconsin culling rule goes back to dragging fish around all day on a stringer. Today’s large well aerated livewells and the improved fish handling by anglers reduces most of the risks to catch hold and release.
How much money is involved here in the winner?
Cade, sounds like you are a bit jealous of her and her accomplishments? Why else would you rip on her for networking to find fish for a tourney? Big deal if she used 3 or 4 pros to pre-fish with her, that is her choice!!! You can honestly sit here and say you never get information from people to get started? Be real and quit bashing those who do good!
It sounds to me like she broke state law. In every tournament I have participated in, that results in a DQ. DQ this person for no other reason than she was dumb for bringing about this drama. ABA has a tough decsision to make. If I know anything about this organization (I do), they will stick by this poor decision of paying her. Doing so, will result in lost entry fees from people like my self that will not tolerate studpity of this magnitude being rewarded.
She broke state law and admitted to it. DUMB! DQ her, strip her of her winnings and give her a ticket. ABA is at fault for posting this on the web and NOT understanding local laws as well.
I don’t question Karen’s abilities nor do I wish to make light of her tournament win. She had a good season, finishing 4th in points and cashing multiple checks. That’s impressive no matter how much help you are receiving. There are a lot of guys out there who you could tell exactly where a school of fish is, exactly what to use, and exactly when to go there, and they still couldn’t catch them. Obviously she is a good fisherman with good mechanical skills and methodical decision making. She must be to catch 32 lbs on 10 fish over 2 tough days of fishing. My main point was to point out the hypocrisy that was involved. I don’t think I need to explain it again, it can be read and re-read above over the incidents that occurred in April at the La Crosse tournament. My apologies for coming off like a prick when I made note of her networking. I understand that it is “a part of the game” and that people will always do it so long as it is legal. I just think that the extent of this networking is something that is slight overkill for the type of tournaments that we are fishing here..
That said I will exit the post. I feel that I have beat this horse enough and besides I have a heap of chemistry to do. I just want everyone to know that I am not jealous, nor bitter about this scenario because “I had a bad season.” That seems to be the common line to back up the opposing view point. That’s actually not the case at all. I may not have won any big tournaments, and in fact I can honestly say I don’t think my fishing mechanics grew at all, but I did learn from mistakes and gained a lot of experience points. I had a few proud moments and several disappointing ones. I can sleep at night because I lived and died by my own ideas, my own techniques, and my own fish. It may not have worked out how I wanted but I would much rather die by my own fault with hope and confidence for the future than survive by the guidance of someone else.
Do you think Monsoor gets half the winnings?
Folks the issue at hand in this thread is about culling, (not personalities, mud slinging or defamation) and IMHO what role did the TD play in creating this mess. Each angler fishing on border waters needs to have a clear understanding of the rules. But I can see how things might get confused if bad information was given out to the contestants. I wasn’t at the meeting and don’t know what was said about culling or what the permit referenced.
It was my experience that the WI permit for LAW, required that all contestants be informed of the permit conditions. And also from my experience that getting up on stage and telling folks they would be Dq’d if they culled isn’t an easy thing. Not a lot of Happy Campers in the crowd. What most folks seem to want is for the TD not to directly address the issue. Just say something like you are required to obey all G&F rules. This is fine and correct, but if you have a Permit from WI in your hand and it says you are required to inform everyone it is no cull, you have no choice but to make a announcement that few want verbalized. Maybe the anglers that are so outspoken about how to get around the rule, need to be more outspoken about getting the rule changed.
Boy! I’m glad we got this all cleared up. NOT!
Here is a little light reading to better understand why WI didn’t make a culling rule change back in 2007
http://dnr.wi.gov/fish/fishingtournaments/TournamentMortalityCullingEffects.pdf
if you truly read the 70 some pages of this report, you find out one thing.. the LMBV the VIRUS, contributes to the death of the released fish.. the percentages are totally different in areas without the virus..
how many bass did the virus kill, without being caught? many many more then anglers did.
and for years the DNR didn’t want to discuss the virus..
ABA Special Newsletter listing 2011 events doesn’t list MN/WI
http://www.americanbassanglers.com/eblastnewsreleaseBWSSpecial.php
I think the writing was on the wall when Tonka didn’t happen and their last 3 tourneys had real low turn outs.
I think part of the problem is that groups like ABA think we just don’t get it. Like with the culling issue. So what if that is the WI law? To explain everything on the basis of the restrictions isn’t an explanation. The WI anglers have tried over and over again to change it. I want it changed. Hopefully someday it can be changed. But to risk being a heretic, what is it that Tournaments can’t operate under a myriad of differing State rules. Is the one way to do it, the only way? Obviously operating by trying to look the other way didn’t work for ABA. Since I started tournament fishing, I’ve seen many changes in how we weigh and release fish. What would the PAA do to conduct a tournament in WI that other tournaments wouldn’t? As we have educated anglers to gain better fishing skills, have we also set in stone a method that might work in Alabama but not in other States?
Over and over again the response form groups like ABA is that “we just don’t get it”, I’m fed-up with that response. But in regard to the BWS I suspect that the low turn-out this year killed it. They look at the BFL numbers and then are theirs. Many times ABA said to me that if the MN/WI anglers don’t support the BWS it will go away.
Ken and I convinced them to hang in there with us in 2010 and we would build it up. But that didn’t happen. You really can’t expect them to be bring a trailer and crew up here for a 30 boat event. We didn’t get the MN anglers we had hoped for, I thought the Minnetonka tourney would bring them in. I had obtained the DNR permit and just a few things needed to be done for Tonka, but they canceled it and moved it to Wabasha. I actually had offered to help them with the Tonka event, even though we had parted company. But, in retrospect I suspect that they just aren’t use to rules, permits or conditions.
Down South they do all their events one way, and that is what they are use to. So, faced with needing to put up with what we have to, frustrates them. Roy Bragg warned me that dealing with a company who thought it had all the answers would become a problem and it did. According to them we just don’t understand. This culling thing is a good example, ABA spent 20 minutes talking to Tom Monsuer about it a LAW. It was written on the permit. But because they think we “just don’t get it”, they wanted to look the other way on many things.
Here is what i think, we need to appeal directly to BASS not ABA. With BASS being bought, what will the new top brass do with the Weekend Series? Keep it with ABA, take it back or ???
So when the new folks are in-place, I intend on trying to lobby them toward taking it back and running it right. I think there is enough evidence that ABA hasn’t done a thing to grow it. No promotion, no incentives, just “send us your $$”.
Funny, the tournament director read us the 2011 MN/WI schedule at the last tourney meeting. Three tourneys on the river, Winneconne, and Sturgeon Bay.
You can thank one angler involved in the BWS for screwing things up enough to force them into leaving the river be. Nobody ever had any trouble before coming and running a tournament on the river until said angler ruined it.
BTW, I also understand there was low boat numbers but its my understanding that the river was on the tenative schedule until recently
From today’s Pioneer Press:
http://www.twincities.com/ci_16352738?nclick_check=1
St. Louis Park woman who fished by the rules disgraced in tournament flap
But she says she was just following her instructions
By Chris Niskanen
[email protected]
Updated: 10/16/2010 12:35:17 PM CDT
Savik, Karen 2 Karen Savik of St. Louis Park. FLWOutdoors.com Karen Savik, arguably Minnesota’s most successful and well-known woman pro bass angler, can still feel the jubilation of winning last month’s Toyota Tundra Bassmaster Weekend Series Championship on the Mississippi River at Winona.
“I was fishing against some real river rats, and I beat them all,” the St. Louis Park native said of the field of more than 50 experienced anglers, all men, in the Sept. 18-19 tournament.
Savik, 55, won, in part, by using a tournament strategy called “culling” or sorting the bass that went into her boat livewell. If she caught a bass bigger than one already in her box, she released the smaller fish, thus increasing the overall weight of her catch.
She caught 10 bass weighing 31.28 pounds to beat runner-up David Ham of White Bear Lake by nearly 3 pounds and win $2,500.
In a news release from American Bass Anglers (ABA), which conducted the tournament, Savik was described as “winning one for the ladies.” She was quoted as culling her catch 14 times in two days.
That’s when her trouble began.
Although culling is legal on inland Minnesota waters, it is not on Lake Mille Lacs and on the Mississippi River along the state’s border with Wisconsin.
After the ABA news release appeared, another angler familiar with the rule, but not in the tournament, alerted the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources of Savik’s rule violation.
After an investigation, the DNR fined Savik $130 for violating the no-cull rule.
Because she violated a state fishing law, the ABA disqualified her last week. The group named Ham the winner and now wants Savik’s $2,500 check.
Ham said he knew culling was illegal on the river and didn’t use the strategy in the tournament. He said he didn’t remember being told that competitors were told they could cull.
“It’s hard to take a win like this,” he said. “As far as I’m concerned, I’m still in second place, but they (the ABA) have rules.”
Of Savik, he said, “I think she made an honest mistake.”
But was it a simple case of breaking a fishing rule?
Not exactly.
Savik said she culled because the on-site tournament director told all the competitors that they could.
Another angler confirmed he heard the same instructions before the event.
“When they tell you at a tournament to cull your fish, you cull your fish. That was the situation,” said Howie Lee of Brooklyn Park, who won the event’s amateur category.
The incident has raised concerns by the DNR about the tournament organizers and how they conducted the event.
Al Stevens, a DNR fisheries program consultant who oversees fishing tournaments, said event organizers should have known it was a no-cull tournament because it was stated on the permit granted by the DNR.
It is also unusual the news release made specific mention that Savik culled, even though the organizers should have known it was illegal, Stevens said.
“It was obvious that they didn’t discourage it,” Stevens said.
Tournament director Joe Angelone disagreed that any culling rule was violated during the tournament and said Minnesota’s rules allow culling until the angler reaches a limit of fish.
“The anglers in Minnesota don’t understand their own rules,” said Angelone, who is based in New York, according to the ABA website.
David Hagood, vice president of the Athens, Ala.-based organization, said Angelone read from a standard script at the tournament that anglers must follow state and federal laws.
He said Angelone also told the competitors they could not have more than five bass in their livewell, a tournament and state requirement.
Hagood said if Angelone told anglers it was OK to cull, that information “was given because of local information given to him.” He said the news release was based on an audio interview with Savik and written by someone in Florida.
Hagood said, “Every angler in your state should understand and know your regulations.”
Lee, who is a friend of Savik’s, said culling is widely practiced on the river. The ABA also quoted him in the news release that he culled twice. He was not ticketed.
“Karen is good person, an honest person,” he said. “I culled in the tournament along with everybody else.”
DNR enforcement officials said Friday that they are not investigating the ABA and that the case was closed.
Savik is crestfallen by the disqualification and controversy, which has been widely reported and discussed in Internet chat rooms devoted to competitive bass fishing.
She said she fished a tournament last spring on the Mississippi River at La Crosse, Wis., where the tournament director said culling was not allowed.
When a different ABA tournament director said the opposite in September in Winona, she didn’t question him, she said.
“Now I’m getting thrown under the bus,” she said. “That’s the part that hurts. I didn’t set out to break the rules. If there would be a lesson here, (it is to) know the law, although I thought I did. I guess it would be to know it better.”
She denied that her gender had anything to do with her treatment.
“I don’t think that for one moment,” Savik said. But she questioned why the ABA wasn’t taking responsibility for its miscommunication. “I do believe they’re trying to save face,” she said.
Stevens said the Mississippi River no-culling rule has been in the Minnesota regulation booklet since 1981.
He said studies have shown that culling is harmful and mortality is higher for bass caught and released in warm weather during fishing tournaments.
“Biologically, it’s a sound rule,” he said.
He said the DNR would do more rule enforcement of other tournaments in the future. He said the ABA would get closer scrutiny if the Alabama organization applies for another fishing tournament permit in Minnesota.
“We’d be happy to not give them a permit,” he said.
WHAT IS CULLING?
Culling is when an angler exchanges one fish in his or her container for a different one. The practice helps tournament anglers register larger catches by “upgrading” the size of fish in their livewells. But Minnesota fishing regulations pertaining to Wisconsin-Minnesota border waters, including the Mississippi River, ban culling.
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You can thank one angler involved in the BWS for screwing things up enough to force them into leaving the river be. Nobody ever had any trouble before coming and running a tournament on the river until said angler ruined it.
BTW, I also understand there was low boat numbers but its my understanding that the river was on the tenative schedule until recently
If you did your homework rather than just whining you would find that the reason the tournaments are no longer listed is because they have no director for them. I talked to Denise Trembal at the ABA a week or so ago and asked why they are not having tourneys up here next year. I was told that if they find someone up in this area to be a director then they will have tourneys up here. No one wants to travel the 1500 miles to put on a tournament. I can’t blame them for that. Its not real smart from a business end.
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You can thank one angler involved in the BWS for screwing things up enough to force them into leaving the river be. Nobody ever had any trouble before coming and running a tournament on the river until said angler ruined it.
BTW, I also understand there was low boat numbers but its my understanding that the river was on the tenative schedule until recently
If you did your homework rather than just whining you would find that the reason the tournaments are no longer listed is because they have no director for them. I talked to Denise Trembal at the ABA a week or so ago and asked why they are not having tourneys up here next year. I was told that if they find someone up in this area to be a director then they will have tourneys up here. No one wants to travel the 1500 miles to put on a tournament. I can’t blame them for that. Its not real smart from a business end.
or perhaps it has more to do with this??
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He said the DNR would do more rule enforcement of other tournaments in the future. He said the ABA would get closer scrutiny if the Alabama organization applies for another fishing tournament permit in Minnesota.
We’d be happy to not give them a permit, he said.
So baisically it’s a lose lose situation. Karen got her name dragged through the mud for breaking DNR regulations, and now the DNR will be putting all river tournaments under greater scrutiny which will ultimately lead to less organizations choosing to hold tournaments on the river. If only the no-cull rule got thrown out, we wouldn’t have to worry about any of this. 
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You can thank one angler involved in the BWS for screwing things up enough to force them into leaving the river be. Nobody ever had any trouble before coming and running a tournament on the river until said angler ruined it.
BTW, I also understand there was low boat numbers but its my understanding that the river was on the tenative schedule until recently
If you did your homework rather than just whining you would find that the reason the tournaments are no longer listed is because they have no director for them. I talked to Denise Trembal at the ABA a week or so ago and asked why they are not having tourneys up here next year. I was told that if they find someone up in this area to be a director then they will have tourneys up here. No one wants to travel the 1500 miles to put on a tournament. I can’t blame them for that. Its not real smart from a business end.
I’ve done plenty of home work smart a!!. Let me tell you this, there is people in this area that want to run the tourney. You must have blinkers on or be really nieve to believe the statement Trembal gave you.
Think about it all for a couple minutes, all that happened, their bad press, the no cull rule, an angler taking advantage of a mis-informed tourney director and exploiting him with a public admission of culling.
Karen is a nice person, and great fisher person. Although I don’t know her personally I have competed against her for years, more specifically in the St. Judes spring tourney on the river. My point is that she has been around the block on the Mississippi enough to know what the laws are. Don’t kid yourself.
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So baisically it’s a lose lose situation. Karen got her name dragged through the mud for breaking DNR regulations, and now the DNR will be putting all river tournaments under greater scrutiny which will ultimately lead to less organizations choosing to hold tournaments on the river. If only the no-cull rule got thrown out, we wouldn’t have to worry about any of this.
Exactly. But most likely it won’t.
My point is that she has been around the block on the Mississippi enough to know what the laws are. Don’t kid yourself.
She must know the laws well she has a ticket to prove it…. 
I believe she knows the laws well. A tournament director told the fisher people that it was a cull tournament. She culled as I’m sure many others did, but she did that post tourney interview saying she culled thinking she could get away with it. I still can’t believe she did that.
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