Dock Talk 101

Guys,
It’s been pretty quiet on the bass forum. I had this idea around for some time know so I put it together today. This is primarily pointed at the tournament guys but it’s true for all anglers. I encourage everyone to chime in.

Dock Talk 101

A substantial part of fishing our knowledge revolves around listening to, and deciphering information from other anglers. As a tournament angler I have learned the hard way that the information one gets isn’t always truthful. After having my confidence beat down, been deceived by, and outright lied to during the “dock talk”, I have developed a skeptical attitude. I try to block it out but that’s easier said than done. I’ve been fishing tournaments since the late 70’s and only in the last few years have I become confident enough to totally shut it out.
Here is the best advice I can pass on: The assumption is you’re preparing for a tournament. You have spent time practicing. You have spots, and have developed a couple of patterns that are working. You get together with the competition the night before the tournament and they start talking about all the big fish they are catching. The natural reaction is to question your game plan. Did you miss something? The answer is likely, yes. If you always got it right you would be winning all the tournaments you enter. So what do you do? Scuttle everything you have accomplished and start over? The answer is no, you stick with what you have learned and fish it to the patterns to the best of you ability. It’s a simple answer but what else can you do. You must execute based on what you know. To even talk about changing you game plan will undermine you confidence and distract from you concentration.

On the flip side, there are always a few pearls of information in some of the dock talk. Some guys are just to open for there own good. If I am part of the talk and think I may learn something, my approach is to compare what I’m hearing and what I’m finding on the water. Usually, you need a little more information. The skill is to ask the right questions. The question has to be formulated so that you’re not just reinforcing your belief (which may be wrong), but are parallel to what you are experiencing. The questions have to be generic enough to not have the guy clam up. They must not be too specific or treating. General questions like how deep, in current, in cover, schooled or spread out? If the answer’s line-up with what you are experiencing adds creditably to his comments. What you might learn is a detail that you missed or something you can use in the future.

Learning to tell the difference between BS and pearls and not letting the BS drive you off coarse may be the hardest part.

Great comments Riverfan.

Let me add some thoughts… I fish with ~10 guys every week all summer long. Our dock talk is very honest and specific, and questions are always answered by detailed descriptions. This is why the ~10 of us fish together and keep it a tight-knit group. The bigger the group, the more ar stake, and the more people lie/cheat/steal and/or try to mislead the competition.

With that said, our dock talk has proven time and time again, that 4 guys (2 boats) fishing the EXACT pattern with the EXACT same colors and lures, and trying to emulate the EXACT same presentation can result in 2 COMPLETELY different outcomes.

I chaulk this up to the things Jeremy and Blue Fleck discussed this summer and the “time on the water” adage that Mountain Man lives by… SUBTLE DIFFERENCES…. boat position, lure entry, the twitches one guy does over the other, the “little things” that really are “big things”… often separating #1 from #2.

Every fisherman has unique/subtle (and often obvious) “quirks” that result in very different outcomes. For example, one gentlemen I fished with this summer had a “feel” for certain types of fishing, and when in control of teh boat and locations, would outfish me 2 to 1. Reverse the scenario, and fish my types with me in control, and I would out fish him 10 to 1…

Seriously, I am saying that you put Champman on a spot, you put me on a spot, and you put your cousin Sally on the same spot, we likely will produce very different bags. (Provided they know how to net a fish!)

Why? Given tougher fishing conditions, we are all different in our ways… You know, your momma told you that you were unique, not strange… well, what makes each one of us differnt is our strength. If the bass are biting, one of us could find the bigger ones, the other the smaller ones. Experience and confidence being the biggest factors, I believe, in the long run.

It seems very often, the more arrogant or outspoken the dock talkers are, the less likely they are telling the truth. Remember those locker romm talks in high school… Just my observations.

Oh, and my bet is on your cousin Sally…

i think you hit it right on the head, riverfan. A person needs to re-enforce his/her pattern with the “pearls” that are found on the dock. Don’t be lead astray unless you have no clue in the first place- it seems this site has had a few “pearls in the bunch” if your open enough to look through the typing. I think everyone is afraid of losing they’re favorite fishing holes if they give to much info up. I think if you give friends/people that you trust enough “cookies” they will return it 10 fold- at some point in time. But, you need to listen for it, because it may not come in the form that you may not be able to decipher it easily. That equates back to time on the water and knowing what is current info “on the dock”!

Hey guys..coming from someone who lives 3 hrs from the river..a few of us love to hear how the bite is going, and what your using to catch. What to look for. Now I myself know some of the river spot..And there are always the community spots that I won’t be afraid to tell someone about. Like you said Champman it will come back at you 10 fold.. Which by the way thanks for the info on what to look for down at Beaver Lake…it wasn’t the pattern I had found to work..but it gave me a starting point.
What I like about this site is what you guys are doing right now..Talking or chatting about fishing..I don’t personnally know guys..but I like to think that you guys can fish pretty great..I do follow Champman cuz of the Federation of course…One of these years it won’t interefer which some of my other tourneys.. Aw heck..I lost my train of thought here now….anyways even though the season is over I hope all you river superstars, keep us guys far from the river in tune with how things are going…
One thing I’d like to see is maybe have a thread where each of us tell’s everyone his favorite way of fishing and maybe how he would fish this way different. Just a thought….
Keep up the great words of wisedom…

The posts about dock talk have been very good so far with many common threads. I have a group of trusted guys that I work with on sharing information, “the club”. It is hard to get into the club because it involves trust and this has to be earned over time. Sharing infromation can be very valuable for many of the reasons stated about getting the “pearl” that may solidify a pattern for you and others in the club. Many of the guys that moderate and post regularly give out pearls easily and ask for nothing in return. This attitude will foster more trust and a willingness to share more by members of the club. Some of the guys on this thread are in the club and the information is usually shared via messenger or email especially concerning recent spots. As we all know spots and patterns can appear and disappear quickly while others last a long time. Sharing ideas and information is the essence of learning and can help all members of group.

On the flip side there are always the guys that seem to always be on big fish before the tourney and then come in with nothing. These are what I call “the talkers”. They like to hear themselves talk and feel that they need to be the center of attention. We all know one or more of these guys and experience has taught us to turn a deaf ear to the majority of what they say. The most important thing for me is to try and listen well and sift through the dock talk for information that may help put together a better or alternative pattern if your primary plans do not work on any given day. I refuse to be burned by what others are saying and if my plan is not working on a given day I will not resort to going with a dock talk pattern of questionable origin but go back to the basics of looking for a pattern based on conditions, expereince and knowledge. This also happens to be the way that I go about pre-fishing. Many times I have found new and better patterns and fish after my primary spots and presentations have failed. Go back to what you know versus going with what you hear on the dock. Then if you still blank you at least tried your best and have no regrets about wasting a day on dock talk.

While I agree with your Dock Talk observations one thing I always pay attention to is the guy himself whom the information is coming from. If I am talking to a seasoned tourney angler than I almost always believe what he is saying to a point. Factor that in with his posture as being secure with his abilities and then I can get a clear picture. The kid who is trying like heck to become one of his semi-idols then you are all but guaranteed that this kid just spilled everything he has going. It’s the guys who are always trying to beat you, and not win the tournament that you have to worry about.

John, this dock talk post reminds me of the MN Federation tourney. All you could hear from anglers in there secret huddles was Wingdam this and wingdam that. I found the same fish as everyone else but I knew that people were not confident in there abilities and were reaching for anything they could find. When I left the meeting I told Kenny that the tourney was over. I even marked up a map for the team on spots that are Gimmies. Kenny kept missing the bites he got while Ryan got hauled up to pool 5A. Loren found his own fish and did not listen to the wingdam hype. He qualified as well. I feel that all the dock talk helped me out. It put so much pressure on the wingdam fish that many couldn’t even pull a limit. 190 guys spread across 50ish dams is hard on the fish. By the way, if you hear me dock talking you can rest assure it is right on par for what I am doing. My only problem is that I always call 3lbers 2…Isn’t that right tom.

Jc

Interesting chat. I think I have another angle to add. I wrote an article recently that addressed this from another angle. It concerns helping the new tournament guys to grow. I won’t retype it here but if you want to see it follow this link.

Give Away Some Hints and Win More Tournament Cash!

That would be correct. That and when you ask Jc if he wants to turn around all he does is spin in a circle.

Although I rarely take part in the casual dock talk that happens before and after tourneys or even at the landing after a day of fishing. I think almost all of it boils down to trust. Like the rest of us I have a group of people I trust for good info. They don’t lie to me and I don’t lie to them. Then, there are some guys you couldn’t pay me to listen to before and after a tourney. For as cut-throat as this sport is, it’s hard to find guys that won’t stretch the truth to their benefit. It’s not too hard to tell the ‘stretchers’ from the ‘catchers.’ Bottom line, scales don’t lie. Jeremy and I had a guy next to us at a BWS weigh-in tell us he had a limit of 3lb fish. When the fish hit the scale, they magically weighed in at a 2lb average. He was a hard guy to find after his weigh-in.

Like I said earlier, it’s all about who you trust. That can take years to figure out.

All very good points guy’s and as long as we are here I want to bring up the issue of trust. I see tournament fishing as a series of plateaus. One steps up the levels with experience and success. As you fellow competitors know you, the impression you project may open doors. One of the ways that you move up is you gain the respect of the upper echelon anglers. This respect isn’t just based on angling success it’s what you bring to the table as a person. Once its know that you can be trusted a whole new level of information open up to you. However, the information has to flow both ways and if you abuse the trust the doors close in a hurry. I’m a longggggg ways from the top but I have had the chance to fish with some of the better anglers in the area and I have learned a lot. They pointed out details that I never thought of. In return I share what information I have. It may just be current conditions but I might a new wrinkle I figured out. There are a whole bunch more plateaus that I will never see but I’m sure the acceptance is even tighter but the amount of information leaps 10 fold.

All,

I am more towards don’t listen to dock talk period!
OK, I do keep an ear out for pearls, but unless they
come from known sources, with time to test out the
pearls, on the water, I don’t even put them in my
mental data base, for that tournament. I do note the
interesting ones, and look for proof of their validity,
at the end of the tournament. If they prove to be real
pearls, they go in my fishing notes for that system,
and that season. But listening to “Dock Talk”, at a
pre-tournament meeting has caused me nothing but grief.
If I am not on fish, then I have no business looking
for them by “dock talk”. I tried that once, and I
blanked…That was the first and last time I blanked.
If I am that unprepared to fish, that I have to listen
to dock talk to get on fish, I don’t fish, or I lower
my expectations, and just concede that the tournament
is a “learn by doing” tournament. But “dock talk” is
not where I look to get learning. I have a couple of
good books on seasonal patterns, in different types
of fisheries, that often give me a better regroup
point, than where Joe Wickedstick is hauling in 3 lbers.

Now honest exchange of info between close friends, that
can respect the others “spots”, I don’t call “dock talk”.
I do call that learning, but again I don’t let that
creep into my starting plan, unless I have time on the
water to prove it is working for me. Like the point
that was made, two fishers, with the same info, will
have different results, so I have to test the info,
before it changes anything in my plan.

Big Bass Bane

All

First of all Jeremy you should not make general remarks about kids in tourneys that they are always worthless because I am a college kid (21 years old) and I fish just as hard as the next guy. I would spend atlest three days a week on the water this summer and I know many do not do that, so I do spend tiem on the water. However, in regards to the “Dock Talk” I agree with what many of you are saying about the “pearls” and tuning the rest out. I was in a two day tourney in Rhinelander this last summer and on day one all the talk was about the big largemouth that everyone was catching and when it came to the weight in nobody caught brought in any big sacks with largemouth. My partner (also 21 years old) and I were at the pre tourney meeting everyone made fun of us young guys, but when everything with day one was over we were in second place (with all smallmouth) out of fifty five boats. Then came day two we were the sixth boat to take off and all the people that made fun of us (also the ones that talked about the big largemouth they were catching but didnt catch during the tournament )just followed us to our first spot. I knew they were following us because on day one we only saw five boats within a three mile radius of us and plus it took us almost and hour to get to our first spot. We had atleast a dozen or so boats follow us and once we started to fish so did they. We even had many guys ask us what we are using, what color, how are we working the bait, when they would pass us with their trolling motors. I have never been so mad in my life because my partner and I spent two whole weekends prefishing and these guys just wanted to know everything that we were doing . I think that a lot of the dock talkers are people who have no idea with what is going on. I believe that they give out false information to try to get someone else give out real and helpful information, so that is why I do not participate in dock talk before the tourneys. After the tourneys, I am willing to spill the beans about everything if people are willing to ask and be curtious while we are conversating. I am not saying that I know everything because I don’t and I am willing to admit that I am not always on fish, but I will tell you that I would never lie to someone who asked if I was catching fish. I think this forum has been very helpful to me because many of the information has helped put me on fish and for you guys out there giving good and honest information THANK YOU . I agree with river fan about the dock talkers and ignoring them because many times you will never get valuable information; you will just end up second guessing yourself.

Good luck to all you hunters and fisherman that are brave enugh to go out in the cold weather . Lets keep up the good chattrer this winter so that this site is still helpful to all of us bass fisherman.

Good luck on the water .

Bassboy

If you fit into the catagory of fisherman that is young (in fishing) and trying to “get in” with the fishermen you consider the best of the best,then I hold true to what I said. Your age doesn’t really matter to me nor is it even an ingredient, its the experience and insecurity in many anglers that I was reffering to. The term young may have been better spoken as novice. If I have offended thee I fear I may have hit to close to home. If you are secure in your abilities and an experienced tourney angler I would assume you find these accounts true.
jc

Bassboy… you make some good points. I think we should all remember the discussion this summer about a few ruining it for the majority. I hope (sincerely) that your experience this summer was just that, a simple few making you think poorly about some tourney fisherman. I think the majority work hard at learning, planning, and executing their individal plans. The pressure to succeed or the greedy nature of some to win at all costs is never welcome in these tournaments.

Bassboy, congrats on your success at the tourney and it sounds like you might have great tourney future… maybe the next Mike Ikonelli!