Congrats Joe Hall

Congradulations to Jhall…. and his 13th place fish in the BFL Super Tournament out of Treasure Island casino…It was a really really tough bite for a lot of people….

Anyone know how Doug Henning (dhnitro) did?

Good Fishin Joe!! What did ya have lg or sm?

Glenn–Ended up 7th..Only had 4 each day but biggin….
Just couldn’t get 5. Had plenty on though.. Shoulda, coulda, woulda……I’m happy

Great Job Guys!!!
jc

Couple of comments on the Tournament-

The first that going to WalMart for the second day weigh in at Hastings (30 miles or so away), was a bunch of crap…
Nobody except the guys wives, friends and relatives were there..And they were at the boat landing at the Casino…Not even the store manager went out to see what was going on…

Second was I like to thank the couple of guys who brought up the culling issue at the meeting. I have never seen such a mess…These came from season veterans. I have lost any respect for these guys.. Trying to stir the pot…
The meeting almost got out of hand. If you were there and saw what happened whether your for or against culling..that was uncalled for. I won’t mention there names..maybe someone else will.. If you PM me maybe I will.. I’m sure JHall will know.. Even though I did well there I was very disappointed in the tournament.. And I know alot of guys are sending letter to FLW to express there concerns…

Sorry to bring a downer to this post but I needed to vent

But fishing was good!!!!!!!!

Congratulations Doug and Joe.

Thanks guys,

Dnitro is right on! Take the top 10 most respected guys from this division and you can bet at least 8 of them were involved with this mess. You guys are making a big stink over me culling on my home water when you guys did it on yours! I say even though it is no-cull, we are going to just like we do every other tournament. Its not an issue until the top guys start making one of it, and why? I am a firm beliver that if you are “horray me me, and screw everyone else” It will come back to get you! I wont lie, if I had the opportunity to cull this weekend I would have. Why, because we do every tournament and if its the last one I fish because of it, I really dont want to fish them anyways!

JHall

Can someone fill us in on what was decided at the meeting? Sounds like some people interpreted the decision differently.

Ryan

Two guys who stood up and wanted everybody to go with the no-cull rule. Now that said…All the WI and MN tournaments were no-cull events. So whats the problem you say? No matter what is said by others, it’s a common fact that everyone culls if they can. No one says they do because it’s against the law and rules of the tourney. You can debate right from wrong or ethics on this till were all blue in the face. Thing is….if you knew who these guys were you’d know they cull and have admitted to doing it. Even at the club level you will find guys culling. Yes there is legislation now in progress to have us legally cull in Tournaments.

Now I know a few out there will say if it’s the law then follow it. And thats true…Let me ask you this…Ever been late to a meeting and drove faster than the speed limit? Same effect…No big deal right..Have to do what you have to…Well in the tournaments to compete with the guys you have to better your catch. So much can be said on this..but I won’t…
Let’s just say that 2 guys stood up and wanted everyone no to cull. and agree to that..The tournament director once again read the rules of the day and from MN regulations. But these guys would not drop it and caused quite a stir. What it came down to was they admitted that culling goes on…Sure it does..but you don’t say it…It just p@sses
me off that these guys who are great fisherman did this…Maybe they are not as great as they project themselves….
Maybe this doesn’t clear up what happened..but I guess you just have to had fished the BFL to understand…

I’m still upset on how they presented themselves and how they just cause an uproar.. Maybe if you all knew who they were you could ask them yourselves…

If you ask me..I like culling..only I’m not good enough to..but if I fish with you and you have the chance to….DO IT…agree with me or not..thats how it goes out there..

Nitro,

I agree w/you 100% here. In any sport, whether it be fishing, baseball, basketball etc…there is always an unwritten code that players, athletes, sportsman are supposed to follow..In the case of culling, especially for those who fish tourneys heavily and have high stakes involved, you definitely have to do what you can to compete w/others. my .02

I was there and the only reason these guys said anything was because they were afraid of losing valuable pointds to guys who were on fish. Most of the guys didn’t have enough going whre they thought they could cull and you can’t beat a guy who is culling. If they can cull there limit and some don’t but could have I can see how that would be unfair. They should say for all tourneys to cull because everybody will anyways! If you are going to follow the rules aand not cull then nobody should I don’t think it is fair for them to speak up now when they havn’t before, but i guess they felt like it would be to there disadvantage for guys to be culling.

I agree with you 100% nitro.I cull myself and dont know anyone that wouldnt givin the chance to do it.Sometimes its just good to vent.Keep on fishin!!!!

Sounds like everyone wasnt on the same page. I havnt fished BFL since the first year the culling rule came up. Sure hope everyone followed the no cull rule back then.

Ryan

Coonry- I’d be willing to bet that they did cull back then. And your right it is a rule, but one that is hard to enforce. The guys that spoke up and the meeting did not catch fish. And they are good fisherman..and it is an unwritten rule of thumb that you do what you can. Everyone was on the same page that night and has been. The guys that brought it up needed fish. As for points, one of the guys could have one the tourney and still not have enough to go to regionals.. If you were at the weigh (nobody was),one of the guys that place in the top 3 was asked questions on how he caught his fish..He said him and his co-angler caught alot of fish…and he had to bite his lip on how he answered the question..Everyone knew he culled all day..So what congradulations to his for finding good fish.

Hopefully the bill that will allow the WI tourneys to cull will be passed. But it’s up to us to ask our Congress people for help.. As for MN tourneys it will be business as usual. Culling will go on..unless you have a camera on you.

As for me..I have only culled in 1 tournament to date..See I told you I sucked.. But last weekend I had enough big fish on to easly win the tournament by a landslide..I worked hard to pin point those fish. But need to learn how to hook them through 4 inch deep slop (hmm)..If I could have culled I would have. Just so I could better my fihs weight like the other guys did.. And some of them did..and they deserved the place they got..I’m happy for them…
and happy for me that I can say that I’m able to compete with some of the best fishermen around…Even some of the “TEAM SUPREME” guys.. ..just kidding there.
Jeff Ritter overall champ in BFL I beleive.. Great Job!!!

I have fished the BFL for the last few years as a co-angler and have been paired with some nice guys and good fishermen. I’d really like to think that most people follow the wording of the director at the meeting. I know all of the guys I have been with have done it. If at the meeting they say “this is a no-cull tournament” the guys I have been with haven’t culled. The wording at some is “I am not from the DNR” which leaves it to the fishermen. I would assume most would cull then if given a chance. I’m with dhnitro, I don’t get to cull much (I suck too) I could have cashed a check two years ago at Red Wing if I had culled because I had my 3 fish at 8:00 and was on a pretty good pattern. I finished in 9th with no check.
I fished with Mike Felderman when he won in PdC a couple of years ago and he DID NOT cull and agonized over if other guys were. I think the director maybe should declare no cull until the are rules allowing it. If guys are culling when they shouldn’t what else are they doing to get an edge? I won’t cheat myself and I won’t help the boater I’m with cheat either. I’ll admit looking enviously at keepers that are released when I don’t have a limit, but that’s the way it goes. I just have to work harder and get better. What really bothered me with the BFL is that my brother-in-law’s boater that he signed up with had to back out and my brother-in-law got thrown on the waiting list and didn’t get to fish, he dropped from the top 30 to 51st place.

Way to go Joe.

As far as no cull goes I fish as a co angler. I disagree with the no cull. I know that people do cull. I feel comfortable with the don’t ask don’t tell policy but when the tournament director specifically brings up the no cull at the meeting I feel it should be followed. I realize that it is hard to enforce but I will tell you that it is not a fair playing field when some do not follow the directors instruction. If it is brought up in the boat I do not know what stance to take.

I had to back out of the last one. I see that by the turn out that many of my fellow fisherman also backed out. Was it the rules? Bad prefishing? Distance? Added cost because of the hi priced area?

winnesheik-your rightwhen it’s not fair that some cull and some don’t. and yes its pretty much a don’t ask don’t tell policy. And I would guess that most tournament directors know this. But by law and policies set up like for the BFL they have to say no-cull. AT TIMES THAT IS. Not sure if you fish any other BFL’s this year..but our director always said that..”you are fishing for a 5 bass limit, 14″ length”..And that purposely left the so-culled door open. For years during the “RedMan”, it was common knowledge that you could cull…things only changed when at the LaCrosse All-American one of the announcers publicly said that it was a no-cull tournament. much to the dismay of everyone…But I’m sure heeard about it. Thats when things changed for a bit..But in the last few years its been the don’t ask don’t tell way.. And like the director said last weekend..I’m not a part of the MN fish and game……So he knew people would cull… However you or I agree or disagree
on this I don’t know.. How can we make it fair with the no-cull rule? I say don’t ask don’t tell thing is alright for now til better ideas come along…As for the comment about Felderman not culling. You hit the nail right on the head. How fair is it for one to cull and the other not. But if you do not want to cull I think thats a decision you personally have to make..and in that instance I can feel how Mike felt..I just wish I could be able to have that chance…to cull that is….but thanks to web-sites like this and discussions about fishing and meeting some of you guys at the tournaments and seeing how you all fish, I will be able to cull, , I mean find fish better…hey we all have some kind of gripe about something…but how this all got started by a few individuals was just bogus…… if you were there I think you’d have to agree..And one of the guys was there to promote his new line of products….yeah right….Think I’ll find someone to hook me up with an RC Tackle Rep…

Hey Guys-

Its great that we all agree with what happened in the BFL. I guess it will be somthing that will divide the anglers for a while but hopefully we can all just learn from it and there will not be any ill feelings between anybody. I would like to point out that in my opinion, the tournament directors did a super job with everything they had to deal with. What a great group of people who bend over backwards to put on a quality tournament. LOOKING FORWARD TO 2004!

JHall

If you were at the weigh (nobody was),one of the guys that place in the top 3 was asked questions on how he caught his fish..He said him and his co-angler caught alot of fish…and he had to bite his lip on how he answered the question..Everyone knew he culled all day..So what congradulations to his for finding good fish.

In response to this post from dhnitro:

My partner and I DID NOT cull during the tournament.

When the tournament director says the two words that are being discussed in this thread, “No Cull”, it is a no-cull tournament regardless of whatever other statements are made.

Between the two of us over the two days, we caught 20 legal fish that were put in the livewell and presented for weigh-in. In my opinion that is a lot of fish, that is why I made the comment that you heard. I don’t recall biting my lip.

Please make sure your facts are correct prior to stating something as fact that is only speculation on your part. Culling in this tournament would have been a rule violation.

Bob Matthies

I think I just heard posters say not only is it okay to cheat and break fishing laws, but they do it themselves. If you did and you do… you have my sympathy. God knows I make enough mistakes in my everyday life that I don’t need to make any more mistakes in anything, let alone in something as insignificant as a fishing tourney. One day we tear the DNR and fisheries people for not passing the laws that benefit us and the next week we say it is okay to break the laws or tourney rules that are already there. Next time use the word we, (rather than everybody does), because I guarantee you that I don’t and my fishing partners don’t and I would bet most tourney fisherman don’t. One thing is for sure it is now common knowledge that some tourney anglers cheat if they can, but leave the all out and next time say “it is common knowledge that you cheat by culling whenever you get the chance”. I almost didn’t respond to this post because I thought it was being said in jest, but as I read farther I was angered to realized it wasn’t.

You’ve got to be kidding me? Don’t be so naive to what is going on here…These posting don’t “now make it known that fisherman cheat”, That’s been known for quite some time…Also, the term “WE” is used in a relative sense, so don’t take it to heart….I’m not trying to argue with you here, but let’s not get out of hand…GOOD FISHING!!!

If you feel the need to argue that stealing from others by cheating is perfectly okay, the norm and accepted go for it. Using we in the relative sense is exactly the point. Include yourself and whoever else feels cheating is okay,(if you do), in we and leave us “naive” guys out. For all of you anti-tourney folks out there you can feel free now to say in a resounding unified shout, “I told you so” In four years of posting and reading posts on the internet I have never had a post actually make me sick to my stomach. This one does.

I’m not trying to argue w/you..i don’t want that to happen. But what your sick about?>The fact that we are discussing the facts? That’s all “WE” (posters) are trying to do….This is a very controversal issue, and I expect to be challenged on views, but there is no reason to get upset by it…As for the whole breaking the law issue, I did get upset by what i considered you chastizing us on the reality of what goes on in tournaments. It doesn’t matter, I apologize if i offended you, let’s just continue w/solid discussion…Good Fishing!!

Mountain Man… I have long respected your posts. You seem to be a man of high integrity and morals, as am I. I fish a few tourney’s a year only to “see how I compare”, but am NOT a hard core tournament fisherman…

With that said, I have to say that that each tourney I have entered, and all those I have seen weighed in (Team Supreme, FLW, BFL, BASS, etc.) here in the LaCrosse Area (Pools 6-9), culling is happening and those in the top 3 cull… no way you can tell me they don’t. I know some of them, and so I have asked… it is ALWAYS a resounding “Don’t ask, don’t tell.”

Right or wrong, this seems to fall under the jurisdiction of “law of the land” as opposed to the “letter of the law”…

To be technical, by definition, once a fish passes over the gunnal of the boat, it is considered “caught” and returning it to the water is considered “culling” or “bettering your catch”… so, who can actually say they haven’t culled anyway?

I wish I could catch enought to say that culling was an issue for me!

Hey guys- quite the interesting topic we have huh…Well after being apart and hearing alot of the discussion I’ve thought of a few more questions. Kinda since the WDNR has been brought into the scope….
We’ve been talking about culling, the pro and con…and if “we” have broken laws during tourneys. And all kinds of stuff.
Here’s a question though…
What is the difference of culling to catch and release. Here’s what I mean. Reel Guy said that once your fish has crossed the beam of your boat that its part of your catch of the day? I think I understood that right..So if you would release that fish that would be like breaking the law also? Now I said that just to make this point..and I may be wrong in my thinking. Just please hear me out.
But I believe until the first part of June, bass fishing is “catch and release only”, in the northern part of Wisconsin. That is okayed by the WDNR..Right….
So I guess after thinking about this..I would assume the WDNR had done a few studies on the impact of the catch and release they say could be done? I’m sure it has to do with spawning and stuff..
So the next question I have.. is simple (i think it is). If they already say that “catch and release” is ok, and somewhat promote it. What should be the big deal with culling?
Now with that all said…I would like to hear from all of you that agree and disagree with culling. Just something that popped into my limited mind.
You all know that after awhile of trying defend our thoughts and ideals that sometimes we can become blind to other alternatives or ways. I know I do sometimes…Human nature to be right…
Just my thought.Thanks

Guys… cheating is cheating whether Joe,John,Jill, Suzy or Martha does it. How can we call it anything else. If anyone is foolish enough to admit to you in public or private that they intentionally broke the rules to win the tourney they also have my sympathy and you should have told the tournament director immediately. Would anything have happened… probably not but I can assure you lots of eyes would be watching them in the future as mine will be. And speaking technically anyone who does win by cheating or fishing illegally has broken theft and fraud laws; not to mention completely destroyed any personal integrity or credibility they might have had. On the national level in Walleye at least if you admitted to cheating to someone, everyone would know by the next tourney(it has happened). Like I said in an earlier post I am a huge way from perfect, but I sure view with sadness the statements that winning a fishing tournament is so important someone has to cheat or break laws to do it, and then brag about it. My 17 year old son after veiwing the above posts in their original versions was also sad and mad… both as a young man who had fished national championships and earned them the hard way, but also as a student who is sick and tired of adults saying this is wrong and that is wrong and not living by the same standards..myself included. With regards to culling being right or wrong or improperly annunciated so as to make those that spend more time looking for shortcuts than fishing find it as an excuse to break rules clearly explained by the tourney director ofcourse that is no surprise. Does that make it right . No way. Most of you know I really don’t even think catch and release is necessary, let alone culling regulations but if it is the law or the rules then that is what I do.

One difference in catch and release, as opposed to culling, especially before June, would be that “catch and release” I think implies the fish is immediately released, and thus the fish would not be removed from their spawning areas.

Culling on the other hand, the fish could take a ride in someone’s livewell for a few hours, and be released miles from where it is spawning.

The only concern I would have in culling is the release of dead fish or fish in very bad conditions. In tournament conditions, where it is to the anglers advantage to keep the fish lively, this is probably not much of a concern.

I think the movement of fish during the spawn though is probably where the biggest difference in culling and catch and release comes in.

The best thing about these boards is that everyone is allowed to contribute their opinions, great job everyone!

Mountain man-

With all do respect, I need to explain somthing to you. As a young tournament fisherman I enjoy what they have to offer. I follow the rules and do what the tournament director says. They did not say to put your rods away when you caught your fifth fish ( I didnt catch 5 either day so it wasnt an issue). They do not tell us every tournament “no cull” either. How am I, a regular guy supposed to know what the permit says unless it is recited to me? You also have to fish in the BFL to understand how things go, anyone else who has will tell you the same. If in your opinion you want to call me a “cheater” and say that I am a bad influence on the young people, your entitled to that.

I am trying hard to keep this coming from my head and not my heart. This is becoming way too much of an emotional issue and thing are going to get ugly if it does.

JHall

Quote:

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I am trying hard to keep this coming from my head and not my heart. This is becoming way too much of an emotional issue and thing are going to get ugly if it does

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Agree… that is why I started the new post… to take the emotion out of it and take a closer look at the facts and focus in on what the WDNR and WI Gov’t might be or might not be doing…. Take a look JHall.

By the way, no one is calling you a cheater or a bad influence… I hope. Just expressing their opinions, which everyone is entitled.