NEW Legislation to allow culling in tournaments

Please go to the Wisconsin State BASS Federtion page at http://www.wisconsinbass.com and look at the thread regarding new legislation to allow culling in bass tournaments. Go to the message board which is http://www.indepthangling.com and go to the WIsconsin Federation thread, then to the culling/sorting thread for more information. This legislation affects all fishermen out there and especially those of you from MN. WI and MN usually adopt similar laws in each state so please voice your opinions and contact your legislators on this issue.

Help me out… I cannot find where you want me to go… Sounds like something we can all help with. Thanks/

Go to the link first link he has listed, then go to the message board from there
http://www.igooutdoors.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=10;t=000018

I think that will help

Not to belabor this point but I hope all have looked at the Wisconsin BASS website and taken the time to contact their respective legislators to let them know how they feel, either way on this subject. We need to keep the ball rolling on this issue while we have the votes to get it passed.

It looks like it only applies to tourney anglers?

Gianni,
At this point it only does apply to tournament anglers but guess what will happen on the hill in Madison if it gets that far. What is good for the goose is good for the gander. I suspect that it will be for all anglers which is why I implore all fishermen to support this bill.

I think ideally, they would offer a separate license option that would allow culling, maybe cost a couple bucks more?

If they’re going on the assumption that culling is ‘bad’ for the fish, then that seems like an extremely fair way to let everyone have what they want. If not I’d like to think they’d make it apply universally.

I’ve been struggling with this a little bit since it was posted (why it took me so long to post). I am usually against ‘special rules for special people’ but in this case, you have tourney anglers and coordinators who already have to jump through a bunch of hoops, get a permit, and do all the legwork to get state sanction. It seems a little bit odd, as any weekday every one of those tourney anglers could be in that place. Does anyone know if the tourney permit is associated more with the fishery, or the money/payout aspects? I had assumed that since it was issued by the DNR, it was related to the fish, but the more I think about it the more I wonder if they need a special permit more because of the payout.

I assume here in Iowa, culling is legal? Have never heard otherwise, at least. Don’t remember seeing anything in the regs about it. If it came up here, I would certainly support it as mentioned above.

Gianni- with respect to your opinions on special interest for special people, one thing that you must think of is that this bill in legilation was proposed and brought up by the tournament guys. As in any change it usually starts with someone unhappy. Culling is allowed in most areas. And this I believe is only for tournaments. As some of the guys were talking at the last BFL. If and when this new culling law passes (i beleive it will), can you imagine how many major tournaments could be brought up to our areas. The Bassmaster and FLW would be right there. Now maybe you and others would not like to see that major of event held in your area. I’m thinking of say LaCrosse…how many millions of dollars that would pump into the local ecomony. This little unimportant law for most could have a major economic effect on alot of lives. Maybe not yours and mine..but alot of area folks. Whether or the culling rule plays to your favor, it is the sportspersons in the fishing community that have took it upon themselves to try to change a law. And that says alot for our sport. Doesn’t it? I would not agree to a “special” license for us to cull. Personally to much costs for licenses all ready.
Only my opinion on the culling rule. But I think it will have a major positive effect on alot of people and communities. Or am I missing the boat? Would like to hear more opinions on this………thanks

Tournament Stamps, Separate License or the other in my opinion would be money well spent. The only catch is that these monies must go to a “special interest” group to regulate and support our rights at fisherman and competitors. Many of the problems we have is doe to groups having financial support and paid representation. If we were to pass some type of tax on tournament fisherman and have these funds associated with “Our” special interests in mind then we would be able to do amazing things for both our fisheries and our best interests. Being able to afford release boats, having in depth studies on mortality rates, and impacts fishing has on our fisheries are just some of the programs we could adopt. These taxes I feel are one in which most tournament anglers would pay as long as they knew there money was NOT going into the DNR “Pot” to be spent on balancing there budget and such. The amount is not nearly as important as getting the ball rolling in this situation. Many groups already have has tremendous success with these types of programs and I think this is something that has to be explored if we want to guarantee our rights as fisherman continue to our children.
Jc

JC- have a question for you on your comments..what do you mean by a tournament tax? I know that the tournament directors need to get a permit to hold them. And I’m sure that if we don’t have to pay for the permits they probably should. And I could go along with that as long as the entry fees do not balloon to much. I know it always has to cost to have something, but sometimes there has to be a limit if we want this sport to evolve and create interest in getting new people and kids to fishing tourneys? But as with hunting, the costs to the average joe are getting to much. Perhaps there is a way that we can create these moneys without “much” sacrifice? Perhaps a new or different tax on the baits and rods, etc.. we buy? I know there is the Pittman Robinson tax, but maybe another??? for everyone???

The end result is what I was trying to lobby for. The means is something that I fear will take much negotiations. Establishing a “Fishermans / Tournament” rights group that will give us some negotiating power as well as monies to fight legally some of the issues. As it sits groups like Lake associations and Peta are furthering there cause and in my mind winning the battle at the levels it needs to be won at. I know the idea of having tournament anglers having to buy a tourney stamp has been proposed. In many states the fee is very reasonable for other outdoor activities like Turkey Hunting and such with many of these organization having excess budgets each year.

However we get there I am less concerned with as long as We Get There.
We are one liberal (used lightly) knee jerk incident away from catastrophe.
Jc

Okay, I can adress a couple of different points here:

Quote:

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Now maybe you and others would not like to see that major of event held in your area. I’m thinking of say LaCrosse…how many millions of dollars that would pump into the local ecomony.

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Not me, but “others,” which I have never figured out. Personally, I think tourney anglers get the shaft, and we see it even on this board when people complain about someone running them over or running up on their spot, yelling at them for being in a place, etc. Tourney anglers are always the first to get the blame, with no conclusive evidence that it was a tournament participant with which the incident occurred.

Tournament fishing is repsonsible for almost every advancement in tackle, boats, electronics, and motors in the last 35 years (since the first bass boat companies were founded in the mid-sixties, if I remember right). All of the cool stuff and gadgets we have to play with today are the result of advancements desinged to give one angler the edge in a tournament – save GPS, thank you DoD!

Quote:

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Gianni- with respect to your opinions on special interest for special people, one thing that you must think of is that this bill in legilation was proposed and brought up by the tournament guys.

[]

sportspersons in the fishing community that have took it upon themselves to try to change a law.

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Maybe I should ask you this:

Are you trying the change the law? It looks to me more like you’re trying to exempt yourself from it (collectively, that is).

I don’t have a problem with the former. The latter seems a bit unprincipled.

There are two arguemnts that seem valid:

1. Culling does not harm the fishery.

2. Culling has the potential to damage the fishery, but should be allowed regardless.

Now, the argument for (1) cannot be made exclusive to tournament anglers, as many people who are not fishing tourneys have adequate livewell facilities on-board to keep fish just as healthy as those tournament guys. The lack of an 80mph ride upriver might even be a bonus for those fish that get caught by the weekend angler.

JC (and previously, I) present a balanced solution which allows for (2) to be enacted. Tournament fishermen admit that they are causing potential harm in culling and pay a fee, be it a “tourney tax” or special license, whereby the money goes toward reinstatement of lost resources. To avoid this reinstatement, you would have to convince me that the fish are not public property (this opens an avenue by which lake assn’ members can undermine tournaments).

Anyhow, I’m rambling something fierce. Better preview and stick it up there for people to throw darts at.

I’m a little confused here on 1 thing. I keep reading postings on how culling is harmful to fish. How harmful is it? What studies have been done to argue that standpoint? From my own observations, all the fish we’ve kept in livewells have eventually been released in what i consider healthy conditions…

I imagine they are arguing that it puts to much stress on the fish??

Can i get your guys’ thougths on this to better educate myself. Thanks

Define Cull:
(v. t.) To separate, select, or pick out; to choose and gather or collect;

The way the no cull rule reads we should not release any of our fish. At the end of a tournament everyone should take the fish home. Because if you release them your damaging the fishery. Back before the nice live wells we have now. People would put there catch on stringers or throw them in a basket. If they culled the survival rate was pretty low some may have returned dead fish to the water. That is what the no cull rule was trying to stop. With todays live well systems it no longer makes sense. just my .02

Gianni,

To counterpoint, your point #2, just through experience,
I will conceed that tournament angling practices, including
culling, are a load on the resource. OK. So then all
users, putting a load on the resource, should pay a
user fee. I thought that was our license fee
Using your idea of a tournament tax, then we should
have a “harvest tax”, and a “catch, injure, and release
tax”. Sounds ridiculous doesn’t it. I think a better
approach may be to limit tournament loads, just like
harvest loads, on fisheries. Use science. Determine
a formula for tournament mortality, based on water temps,
tournament time, and maybe a few other factors like
average time, per fish, in a livewell, with some constant
to represent the number of working versus marginal
livewells, and that is the load assigned to that
tournament. When the fishery hits the tournament load
maximum, all further tournaments are canceled, or a lower
limit is imposed, before the maximum is reached. No
user group should be allowed to deplete a fishery. We
just have to get smart enough to know who is doing what,
and manage it. The taxes are already high, before
they go higher I want my money’s worth, for what is already
being spent

Big Bass Bane

BBB, I’m good with everything you said. What I take exception to is the notion that we all buy the same license, yet some are exempt from certain regulations.

Maybe the ideal answer is to have separate licenses for tourney anglers, catch & eat angling, and recreational CPR angling. If I go over to a political website like democraticundergroud and post something saying I should be exempt from taxes, I’m guessing there would be some opposed to that notion.

Unfortunatly in our economic times the DNR simply does not have the resources needed to properly manage tournament fishing. We all know there are bad tournament organizations out there. I for one think a tournament stamp would be a good thing for our sport. It would provide the resources needed to manage and promote competitive sport fishing. Also we could use those funds to educate tournament directors on how to properly conduct a tournament. The one thing I have learned about tournament fisherman is that they are very very passionate about their sport. Money is no object when it comes to competing on the water. Hek if you added up the dollars our little bass club {the St. Croix Bass Anglers} spends it would blow your mind. And every tournament fisherman I know has the same passion. They care about the fish, the enviroment, and most of all the competition. And if they had to buy a 20 dollar stamp to fish a tourney, they would do it in a heartbeat. We as tournament fisherman have to be proactive about our sport. Or we will lose big time!! Let me give you one example. Many of you fish in the upper Mississippi National Wildlife Refuge. The fish and wildlife service is currently in the process of developing a new 15 year plan for the refuge. One of the issues they are dealing with is tournament fishing. As it stands now they are considering banning competitive sport fishing from the refuge. It just plain sucks that we have to battle for our rights to fish. Their are a lot of people out there who do not want to see us on the water. My 2 cents.

Bait Caster

Seems that since this thread had begun, the answer to having the right to cull is coming down to a given amount of money.

I may be wrong on this next point, but doesn’t BASS, FLW or the TVA or WDNR already have studies indicating that there are no appreciable or additional loads put upon a fishery that allows culling?

The DNR is management. Hired, State of Wisconsin management; not a business, but they certainly do act like one, citing the lack of funding that would be required for managing culling and tournaments -seems like it be a bit easier to manage.

Most businesses that are not productive… well they close.

The DNR’s argument of putting the care and management of resource above the financial needs of a community or vice versa is weak at best.

Here’s why.

Were culling to truly damage a fishery, then the Mississippi River, Kerr, Sam Rayburn the James, the Red River and Lake Okeechobee would all be lifeless bodies of water, but we actually find the contrary.

Having the DNR charge a tournament tax or culling fee is analagous to the old story of the women on the corner wating for a bus.

Oh, you don’t know it?

Let me share it with you.

A lady is on a corner, waiting for a bus after work one fine afternoon when, suddenly, a guy walks up to her and offers her $50.00 for a, well, favor.

The woman responds, “get away.”

He then offers her $1,000.

She agrees. He then says, “well, how about $500.00?”

She responds, “what do you think I am?”

He answers, “we know what you are; now we’re just agreeing on the price .”

I guess politics are similar, hey ?

Thanks,

OnTheWater

Dude, you lost me. I understand the opposition to new taxes but what I am most interested in is weather or not you would pay to have your “special interests” protected.
jc

By proposing a tax or stamp or fee to allow someone to cull, are you inadvertantly admitting that culling harms fish? and that’s why you’re paying extra for it? Cause i’m still not convinced that culling harms fish. And wouldn’t this tax/fee/stamp only apply to tournament fisherman, since they are the only ones that really are effected to this….Joe shmoe weekend fisherman isn’t gonna be effected by this, or care about it, and definitely isn’t going to pay for it..This is an awesome topic of discussion…confusing at times, but awesome

I see where you’re going, Slop Bass, and I agree with you. If there is no harm done, then there should be no additional penalty incurred (i.e. tourney stamp, special license, etc).

But then, if there is no harm done, then why specifically exempt only tournament anglers?

Gianni,

If I implied some exemption for a user group, I did not
intend to. I agree NO exemptions, to any law. Just
look what that did for the tax code. And I guess the
idea of different user fees, if there is sound
science quantifying each groups load on the resource,
could work. Although I can see this as another source
of friction between user groups as much as having
exceptions in a law, for some user groups. I certainly
prefer a culling law that works for all user groups,
and consider all loads on a resource, when determining
management regulations.

Um, is the “democraticunderground” a forum for rabid
Democrats? If so, I’ll pass on that. I have long ago
grown weary of verbal exchanges with liberals, intoxicated
with the wine of Utopia.

Big Bass Bane

Do you think there is alot of culling going on from non-tournament fishermen anyway? I am asking, honestly don’t know, would alot of guys cull through walleyes they are keeping for the plate? Or sunnies? Or even bass?

It seems to me if you can decide to lift the ban on culling for tournaments, it would just be easier to just lift it all together. I would guess 90% of culling would take place in a tournament situation anyway. No hard feelings among different “groups” then.

This may be a dumb question, but I assume it is not legal, in law or tournament rules, to cull a “dead” fish, correct?

Baitcaster,

How the hell are you Kenny? One of these days, I hope
we get to fish the club events at the same time

I agree that Bass Touranment anglers have demonstrated
a willingness to pay whatever it takes to competatively
fish. Some of the weekend resort type tournaments
may not be quite so happy to shell out more cash,
so we tournament fishers may not all be on board with
the just throw money at it idea. I only ask to see
that the money is going only to tournament management
issues, if we have to pay any additional monies.

As for attacks on the sport of fishing, and more
specifically, competative fishing, all groups better
wake up, and work together. First let me say that I
have no use for PWC. I once voted against a
proposed regulation to limit speed, and noise, of
PWC, because it was not much of a jump to fast fishing,
and sport, boats being next. Most of the attendees at the
DNR hearings were ready to pile on the support for
that rule, until I stood up and reminded many that
their sport boat or fishing boat, would probably be
targeted next. The support evaporated instantly.
All fishing gorups have to work together to guard
against restrictions that are based on emotions, rather
than science. To quote one of the Founding Fathers,
“We must hang together, or we will surely hang seperately”.

Big Bass Bane

P.S. Are you going to fish the Bone Lake T? I hope
my mommy lets me out to play

I am glad to see so much interest in this thread lately. After I first posetd about the issue there was very little response. I am not necessarily in favor of a regulation for only bass tournaments but I am very much in favor of a culling rule for all fishermen. That said I am supporting the current bill as I expect this to be modified at some level to apply to all anglers. I am not in favor of having a new “tax” for an activity that is perfectly legal to conduct with approriate license but done in a competitive fashion. We all have the priveledge to fish within the rules of the state we are fishing in at the time and whether we choose to enter a tournament during that time on the water is not and should not be the question. We need to band together on this issue so our collective voices will be heard. Call or email your State Senator and Representative to voice your opinoin no matter what it is but I hope all would support the culling rule for all fishermen.

FYI MossBoss I have seen many people sort through walleye and panfish to get a better limit on many bodies of water, even during ice fishing so it is a concern of mine outside of tournaments. The key is to require that adequate live release is performed and absolutely no release of dead fish.

Guys

I’ve stayed on the sideline because the bill is across the border. If it does pass it will effect me because the MN DNR has honored WI law. I hope it passes and we can stop this farce. The rule is unenforceable and has created an environment where most of us have agreed to cheat. Ultimately, this law, and others like it, has affected our respect for the laws of our land. Why do we set ourselves up to fail? Lets get ride of the no-cull laws!!! If there is a way I can help from the MN side of the river, let me know.

The reality of the no cull law in Wisconsin is that is is hardly ever enforced. However it has become a most valuable tool for the DNR to use for curtailing tournament fishing. I am a member of the Wisconsin Conservation Congress and I have yet to find a warden who has ever even written a ticket for culling fish. Everyone here needs to know that if the WDNR had their way they would outlaw tournament fishing in Wisconsin. I beleive the DNR would rather please the lake associations than tournament fisherman. So, one way or another we have to figure out how we can form a relationship with the WDNR. The WDNR has done a fabulous job with our fisheries in Wisconsin. But if it were not for the catch and release effort that was created and instilled by tournament fishing, I beleive our fisheries would be no where near what they are today. I will say once again that I do support a tournament stamp provided that 100% of that money goes back into our sport. One thing a tournament stamp would do for us is legitimize tournament fishing in Wisconsin. Right now I think the WDNR thinks tournament fisherman are a bunch of idiots. Even though we are totally passionate about what we do, we really suck when it comes to making our voices heard. Very rarely do I see any tournament fisherman at a DNR meeting. So I will say that what ever your feelings are regarding a tournament stamp, stand up and make your voice be heard!!

Hey Randy,
The weeds are dying back on Bone, and the bass are crunching watermelon senkos under every dock with 6″ of water. I hope to make our club tournament up there.
Later,
Bait Caster

JC,

Would I be oposed to it, paying that is? Yes.

Why?

Does paying for something make it legal? See what I mean?

Would I pay so we could reach our common goal? Yes.

Thanks,

Jeff

Just Thought I’d post this:

“This contribution, FLW Outdoors’ seventh $5,000 donation this tournament season, further establishes FLW Outdoors as an organization devoted to giving something back to the communities that host its tournaments. The money will be used for projects in the James River watershed that enhance fish habitats, increase fish stocks and improve water quality.

“’Maintaining the fisheries that host our tournaments is critical to our livelihood. We are so grateful to the communities that welcome us and our anglers,’ said Charlie Hoover, president and CEO of FLW Outdoors. ‘The FLW Tour Championship presented by Castrol is our most prestigious event, and the James River is an excellent fishery. FLW Outdoors is pleased to give back to the river for future generations to be able to enjoy its great fishing.’”

Just additional food for thought.

Thanks,

OTW