Leave it to the DNR

WRP

Very nicely put. You also gave me some information that I did not already have.

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They where told that they had to keep the fish and could not release them unless they had a permit.

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So, to clear the crap, what was the reason again that the fish could not be released?
No culling rule?

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Because he was a DNR employee and he said so. Wish I could tell you different but that was it.

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So, the DNR employee was trying to regulate a “law” that doesn’t exist on the books?

Man… I can FEEL the love in this thread!

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They where told that they had to keep the fish and could not release them unless they had a permit.

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So, to clear the crap, what was the reason again that the fish could not be released?
No culling rule?

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Because he was a DNR employee and he said so. Wish I could tell you different but that was it.

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So, the DNR employee was trying to regulate a “law” that doesn’t exist on the books?

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Short answer is YES

Thanks Brovarney for clarifying. I agree with your views. I was under the imppression that it was law in WI that once a fish was in the livewell it could not be released unless you have a permit for a tournament. And since they did not need a permit for the size or type of the tournament they were having they were stuck in some gray area that may not be addressed in the rules and regs? Am I making any sense? I would like to think that the DNR was doing what he thought was right. Even if he was unclear of the rules. I hate to think that they are just out there trying to mess with fisherman. I hope the guys who had the tournament take the complaint to the DNR and get some resolution.

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I was under the imppression that it was law in WI that once a fish was in the livewell it could not be released unless you have a permit for a tournament.

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This is the same as a “no-culling” law, correct?

Is this the law?
If so, there isn’t much arguement against the DNR officer.

IF this is the law, then it would require lobbying your representatives to change it, if you so desire.

I thought culling was catching your limit, and THEN releasing a taken fish for one just caught?

I don’t think culling refers to releasing fish at or below your limit. I could be wrong, but if I am, the culling rule is even more stupid than I thought.

late to the party as usual…been busy…

What I’m wondering here is this: small ‘tournament’…why not just use a hand scale and weigh them in the boat and let them go? Why not go to a ‘card tournament’ and go by length instead of weight?

Seems that there are two options here: complain about the DNR and resolve to ask questions and try to do something to change the situation…

Or change the approach…

A catch/measure/release tournament could be argued to be a lot less stressful on the fish than a ride in a livewell…

Four pages and not a lot accomplished…but sure is interesting…anyone have a direct contact to the DNR? Anyone consider just giving them a call to learn/understand the situational/circumstantial issues driving the approach?

There was once this old song…”I fought the law and the law won…” perhaps, when the bridge is out straight ahead it’s best to take a detour…

Then again I’m old enough now that I need to start worrying about my blood pressure….

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late to the party as usual…been busy…

What I’m wondering here is this: small ‘tournament’…why not just use a hand scale and weigh them in the boat and let them go? Why not go to a ‘card tournament’ and go by length instead of weight?

Seems that there are two options here: complain about the DNR and resolve to ask questions and try to do something to change the situation…

Or change the approach…

A catch/measure/release tournament could be argued to be a lot less stressful on the fish than a ride in a livewell…

Four pages and not a lot accomplished…but sure is interesting…anyone have a direct contact to the DNR? Anyone consider just giving them a call to learn/understand the situational/circumstantial issues driving the approach?

There was once this old song…”I fought the law and the law won…” perhaps, when the bridge is out straight ahead it’s best to take a detour…

Then again I’m old enough now that I need to start worrying about my blood pressure….

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I am on the committee that meets next week in Madison. I will address it then.

As to why not change………Because it is LEGAL and I like to participate in club events that are run this way.

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I was under the imppression that it was law in WI that once a fish was in the livewell it could not be released unless you have a permit for a tournament.

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This is the same as a “no-culling” law, correct?

Is this the law?
If so, there isn’t much arguement against the DNR officer.

IF this is the law, then it would require lobbying your representatives to change it, if you so desire.

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GOD if only it was that easy. First you have to get on a committee to discuss it to death. Then it has to get argued about after it is written up in first draft (did I mention that there are a number of ANTI’s included on that committtee) then three or four drafts and arguments later every body is worn out and agrees to send what you have to the Wisconsin Natural Resource Board. On the way to the WNRB the DNR decides to change the whole thing to it’s liking and the members of the ANTI’s who didn’t get there way go to the WNRB and try and change it to what they want…….Then the WNRB sends it back to the Comittee to get reworked………..Which is where we are now. Someday next year it will go to the legislature after the DNR and the ANTI’s have done their best to protect their interests.

Dan, do what you want to do…

My only point is this: riding around in livewells is more stressful on bass than being unhooked and returned…and if one of the goals of bass tournaments is to release the fish with the greatest chance at survival…it seems a logical alternative.

Now if there’s lots of cash on the line or you’re fishing against folks you can’t trust…or you don’t trust others cause ‘you know how you are’…that’s a different matter…

And not one to take out on the DNR professionals…

How’s that for an oddball opinion?

Start a petetion and do an organized protest!

Better yet, call a different game warden and have the first warden arrested for needlessly destroying a resource!

I still see no law that was broken by the bass club. The rule states It is illegal “to sort fish. Any fish you take into possession which you do not release immediately is part of your daily bag limit even if it is released later.”

I don’t know how much clearer that law could be. Why would they mention releasing it later if you couldn’t? I will say that if you decided to go fish for bass after weighing in a limit then you would be in violation since you already have filled your daily bag limit.

Curiosity got the better of me, so i had to stop back and see what was going on in this forum.

I didn’t mean any of my statements to be taken to heart so strongly as they apparently were. I was simply trying to create more discussion and here different views and opinions, as what happened.

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Fearnofish – you are more than welcome to participate, but when you include statements like…

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Like I said, were talking about green carp in wisconsin, so i really could care less.

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…in your posts, you can be sure you’ll receive resistance. This thread didn’t have to go this direction. It’s a shame when other members visit the bass forum with their one-liners just trying to stir up controversy.

Just keep in mind… If the anti’s get their way with tournament fishing, they will NOT stop there. ALL fishing will be their next target. All fisherman should join together and stop this movement now before it gets WAY out of hand…

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DNort, you fail to see the humor in the term “green carp” This is a totally new phrase that no bass angler has ever heard before and it is so hilarious. /sarcasm

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And thanks, but im well aware this is not a new term, its is just the way i usually refer to them, which may be a compliment because i do enjoy catching large carp sometimes .

Anyway, my point is that i am sorry if my statements offended, annoyed, or upset anyone. I do however also feel that other members participating in this discussion could respond to other peoples thoughts and ideas in a more positive way, not only my statements, but others as well.

At no point did I say i did not support tournament fishing, or bash or jab it or whatever was said. I attempted to state my concern over people catching fish and releasing them after being held in livewells, because of the possibility that their boats are not equiped with good aeriating and recirculating equipment, although most quality boats are, and of course all tournament rigs are equipped with everything possible to keep the fish happy and healthy, maybe even a better environment than from which they came.

I do feel that sometimes if your opinion differs from the majority, u do not stand a chance, and i only acted in response to others, my first posts were very polite and issue oriented.

Finally I would just like to say again the i apologize for offending anyone, it was not my intention. Some of my statements were made in response to the tone of others, but were still probally uncalled for.

Thats the best apology i can come up with

Im Sorry and Thanks

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Thats the best apology i can come up with

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Works for me. Although I saw no need for one.

Here is a good writeup on livewells/Stress/Oxygen etc…
Thought it was relevant to this thread.

http://sports.espn.go.com/outdoors/bassmaster/news/story?page=b_cons_bass_alive_livewell

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UpperMiss Rat316

Why should we stop doing something that we enjoy doing when it is legal to do so?

Some people are against even the very thought of fishing. Should we stop that? How about hunting…..That offends a lot of people. Should you staop doing that? Vegans would tell you eating beef is the only way to go. Are you giving up steak????????

By the time these laws get on the books they have been analysed to death. No body is pulling a fast one. A DNR lawyer sits in on everychange and prevents the DNR from making legle blunders.

I am aware of the law and expesct not to be harassed while participating in the sport I love while doing it. In reality the DNR officer in question could more than likely be ticketed for violating the law which protects sportsman from harasement while legaly pursuing game in Wisconsin. Man do I wish someone had filled a complaint.

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I made a suggestion…. If you need to see fish at a weigh in then so be it, or show off a hawg to stroke your ego your welcome to, all Ive seen you do is RIP anyone thats against anything you like, theres alweays 2 sides to a coin here. Im not overly impressed with weigh ins and guys trying to show off 2-4 pound fish like they just won the classic or something…. I guess for me fishing is mostly about relaxation and shooting the bull with buddies, yeah we get competitive and I also fish some limited tournaments but one thing you need to remember is tournament anglers are the minority, even if thats the way you make your living (directly or indirectly)….. I could go on for hours but Im not gonna…. have fun catch fish

I’m not going to tell this guy that he can’t do something that feels good, is legal and is enjoyable.

Brovo hasn’t ripped into anyone. All he’s done is rebuttle some comments with questions of his own. He’s not attacking you with what he said and most of the questions he’s made are rhetorical in nature. I’d hope you could understand the difference.

I’ll agree that tournament anglers probably are the minority. But I’d argue that we have the loudest voice for the rights of ALL fisherman and give a lot back to the community as well.

– youth fishing events

– casting for Kids events

– highway cleanups/river Cleanups

– donate percentages of entries towards charities(ex.MSBC)

– My Jerkin’Lips bass club last year helped search for a boy missing on the water one night/and we donate each year to the local food pantry’s.

—-these are just to name a few.

Does that sound like a group of people who only cares about stroking their own ego’s?? I think not. There’s no real money in tournament fishing…so it’s not about that either. It’s unfortunate that this is the stereo-type you’ve conjured up for us. I’m not sure what tournaments you are attending and watching, but come and watch one around here anytime and you’ll see that we’re just the same as you. We enjoy fishing and the competition and spending time with our friends. Why should that be illegal?

Well said slop. I agree with everything you said. One thing to add is that most of the tournies held are club tournament that are used for fund raisers, that ultimately will have some of that money going back into the waters in the area, or the community. THe club I was in helped the DNR fund and install fish cribs in a local lake. It is ironic that tournament bashers never look at all the good things those people do. People see what they want to I guess, that is the unfortunate part.

Darin

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This weekend the members of my bass club where fishing a non-permited club outing on sturgeon bay. Legaly because there was no money involved a permit was not needed.

They where told that they had to keep the fish and could not release them unless they had a permit.

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I think before you bashing a DNR person or even a fellow club angler you best get the straight skinny directly from those in the issue…….

2nd hand bs is what gets stupid rumors started…..
If you have a question for the DNR guy ….. ask. it is that simple.

If there is a line that was crossed in the law he/she will tell you straight up. I have yet to meet one DNR person that has a vendetta against tournament fisherfolks like myself.

Living in MN, a permit is required if…..
* There are greater than 30 participants for open-water contests or 150 participants for ice-fishing contests
* The entry fee is greater than $25 per person
* The total prize value is greater than $25,000 or
* The contest is limited to trout species only.

On the culling issue…. not sure in WI….

Either way, before you spout….. check it out….. Otherwise some folks might think you are simply stirring the pot to generate business…. Brovarney baits….

smallie_hawgin

I have spent countless hours in the last year sitting on the Tournement committe that is rewriting the laws pertaining to the permitting system here in Wisconsin. I have gained an awareness of the views and perpectives of many on that committee.

I am also well aware of the current and proposed permiting system. This group was not in any way required to have a permit. No money changed hands and there were only 12 participants.

Tommorow I will once again be in meetings with this group. What do you suggest I do when they want to slap a $94,000.00 bill on tournement anglers? Roll over and play dead? Should I also ignore alternatives when they Require that all Tournaments in July and August be CATCH AND KILL?

I have been around a long time and know all to well what these fights mean.

I was around when the DNR refused to ok the use of trolling moters for positioning a boat while casting. That one had to go to the legislature.

I was around when the first permitting system was put into place. Few people realise that the bass fedeartion supported it because it made the conducting of a fishing tournament in Wisconsin a legal act. Local goverments could not outlaw them to keep people off of lakes because that would violate the state law that made them legal endevours.

No body remembers the big push that B.A.S.S. members made in getting the DNR to change the size limit on bass to 14 inches. The result according th Joe Hennessy DNR warm water specialist is that Bass are now the most offen caught gamefish in Wisconsin.

I was around when the DNR was pushed into buying launches and assuring that Lake associations would not buy and close them to public access.

And now I’m in the middle of this mess. Not because I wanted to but because I was asked by the Wisconsin B.A.S.S Nation to represent them at the meetings.

You may think what you want of my motives, but please get it right, I’m not stirring the pot…….I’m MAYTAG THE AGITATOR.

And I’ll let you know how the meeting goes.

Maytag, er, Brovarney

good background info…but what I wonder is what the driving forces/thought process is behind putting extra monies on tournament anglers? There has to be some scientifically based reason, or at minimum politically based. Either way, they’d likely point to scientific info as justification (easier than saying ‘we just want to tax you’)…

I’m not trying to agitate here…just that while you advocate for the group, it’s always helpful for all to understand the drivers/rationale such that it is behind the movements…

I’ve shared what I see as viable options to always running weigh tournaments…from a conservation perspective they make sense…from a membership perspective I believe ‘no livewell/measure-release’ allows a wider range of equipment to be used as well…

But to step off the soapbox, the point that the process is legal is a good one and all that’s needed to push forward with what is desired.

But I’ve been around long enough and watched people (and myself) long enough to know that to base a position on only one side of the story can be dicey at best…if you’re interested in drawing correct, defensible conclusions. Other wise, the risk is that it’ll turn into a ‘Roseanna Dana’ moment…oh, never mind…

Look forward to feedback from your meetings…while I’m sitting here in Nebraska and what you are involved with doesn’t directly impact me today…stuff like this does have a way of gaining footholds and moving forward…

Good discussion…agitate on!

In response to my e-mail to Randy Stark {chief law enforcement officer to the DNR} I recieved a call from a DNR warden supervisor today in reference to this incident in Stourgeon Bay. His name was Chris Groth.
Warden Groth informed me there is statute regarding the restocking of fish back into the water from which they came. He said the DNR is currently discussing how they will enforce this law. But utimately it’s looking like every bass club tournament will have to file for a restocking permit from the DNR. So how long will it take them before we have to pay a fee for restocking??

He said the department will have an official response soon regarding this issue.
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Baitcaster,
If this is the way the the DNR would like to go about running small or even large tournaments where you need to purchase a permit for restocking then you should be allowed to cull fish with this permit also, correct. it is basically the same principle releasing fish that have been kept in an artificial habitat for hours and then releasing them or “restocking them.” there are a lot of screwed up things that are going on with tournament fishing right now, When the dnr figures out what they want to do i guess we will all know… yeah right! Dan this sucked that it happened to you but as far as you knew you were doing everything legal, its the unwritten laws that will get you every time. what a crock.
Nick

You and others have done a good job focusing on the issues. I look forward to hearing how your Tournament meetings on 6/20 went. I don’t like the logic that the DNR is using. They seem to be saying that only permitted tournaments are authorized to release fish after the weigh-in, and therefore if you don’t have or need a permit, your restricted from releasing them. I’ll be surprised if the MN DNR doesn’t start following this logic. They have long been concerned with tournaments bringing fish from long distances, and mixing of stocks. Keep up the good work and keeping being a Maytag.

BassKing,
Currently there is not a fee for the restocking permit. But given the fact that everyone who releases a fish after it has been reduced to their daily is breaking the law. I would guess the fees will soon be coming. This will add thousands of hours in paper work to the WDNR. And this will effect most of the fisherman in Wisconsin. If you go out for a mess of bluegills and only catch a few, under this law it would be illegal to release those fish without a permit. The WDNR is out of control and needs to be stopped!! Common sense is totally gone in this organization.

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BassKing,
If you go out for a mess of bluegills and only catch a few, under this law it would be illegal to release those fish without a permit. The WDNR is out of control and needs to be stopped!! Common sense is totally gone in this organization.

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I agree that doesn’t seem to make that much sense…however, ‘releasing’ a couple of bluegill from a stringer or livewell if the aren’t in ‘great condition’ might be considered the same as tossing refuse in the lake…sure, the turtles/crayfish will eat them…but realistically, do we expect them to survive?

I understand the issues here…but on the other hand, if the intent is to release a fish, what are the minimum requirements we all need to observe to insure the fish has the best chance of survival?

On one hand the WDNR sure looks a bit out of control on this…on the other, could it be that one of their primary intentions is only to insure fish get released with best chance of survival?

If so, does anyone here really have a problem with that? (Is it also possible that a release permit would only be offered to those with proper livewell conditions/equipment?)…seems there’s almost as much info missing in this discussion as there is ‘concern’…a wonderful opportunity to learn/ask questions instead of ‘puffing up all indignant like’…just saying…

some folks wouldn’t go fishing without the proper equipment (graphite rods, flourocarbon, lucky craft lures, big, fast fiberglass bassboat, etc)…but how good is your livewell technology? really. And in all the weeknight tournies out there, does everyone have an up to date livewell? Are there real ‘oxygenators’ or is it just ‘occasionally’ refill with the lake/river water? do you use ‘fish crack’ (rejuvenade et al)?

I know these are not popular questions, but I do think they ought to be asked and at least thought about…

I’ve personally upgraded my livewell (installed an oxygenator – $79 at BPS – in support of my state record bass quest…in the event I catch ‘that one special bass’ I’ll be ready to do everything possible to get her measured, verified and back to the water alive and in condition to survive…

But that’s me and the choice I made.

Willie there is a lack of information here. You are right. We only have the failed DNR examples of the past to judge this by. How much money have they spent on CWD? How are those efforts paning out? It is not illiegal to drive away from the ramp with weeds all over your boat. You can’t put the baot in the water with them on it ……but how many ramps are monitored. And they expect to stop invasives……what do you think about earn a buck? I’m not a hunter and I can see there are flaws in that one as well.

The DNR is just not viable as a rules making orginazation. It is way to inbeed with the Stevens Point good old boy network to offer up any ideas that are either new or useful.

They can not rule because at any time the politicians can step in and over rule them. They simply out wait anyone that they disagree with. They simply don’t enforce laws that they chose to ignore.

Until somebody stops them they are just a snowball getting ever bigger as it heads down hill.

….sighing…I have watched this post bounce back and forth. The one thing we need to agree on is that we need to stay involved and not let them slide a one sided law into affect.I for one will be here to help in anyway to the represent the tournament angler(not just bass). I hope this made sence.