Blue Flecks Question….

One that I can not answer… We all know that bass can not see red. Why then do we associate red with so many of your favorite patterns. The number one without a doubt most popular tube on the river is black neo.. A black tube with red flake… This tube has probably accounted for more fish than any 2 colors combined with the exception of black and blue.. Why then do we think that red has such an exceptionable triggering quality?
jc

red is the first color in the spectrum to “fade out to gray” the further down in the water- maybe it looks more realistic”shad tone” than having a color come by them that isn’t natural to the forage base- other than using color for a reaction triggering mechcanism. We know that bass have two different styles of striking a lure, offensive and defensive strikes, in which you should be able to tell how the fish is hooked, to which mode the fish is in-(wrong color, or did the fish just want it out of his stinking area)

Excellent question! It does seem very ironic, doesn’t it? I wish I had an answer.

Mark

Jeremy,

Can you point me to the studies that show bass can not
see red? I am skeptical about that info. I know it is
the first color to fade, as light diminishes, but to not
see red at all…Hmmm.

I have experimented with black neon(black red flake),
and just plain black, it reapers, in stained lakes,
and the red flake can make a difference in the number
of strikes, and the size of the fish. Not always, but
sometimes the difference is very noticeable. So I can’t
give you a definitive answer, other than empirically
the red color is in some way detectable by bass, in
shallow(<5') stained water. It may be as Jimmy suggests
the shades of gray just add to the color scheme to match
a forage, or to convince the fish that this new thing
needs a taste. But in some distorted way(at least from
our perspective) bass can see differences in color.
Until we learn to talk to bass, that might be the best
answer, we can find.

Big Bass Bane

I’ve never been given any hard proof to either side of this topic, however, I have had my butt kicked from the rear of the boat with a red spinner bait, while I’m fishing a white spinner bait. Also, have you notice alot of the pros switching there crankbait hooks to red when on clear to slightly stained water.

I will start by saying that I happened upon this in my winter reading. I took it as fact without any double checking. I am not sure of the author however I typically only read DNR / InFisherman / and the fishery publications….. I seem to have been the victim of an urban legend… Upon further investigation I have found 2 articles that I found of interest. The nuts and bolts are listed below….
Thanks BBBane for the observation. I did find some very interesting information.

Until this morning I subscribed to the thinking that “Color doesn’t matter but when it does it really does”. Now I will admit that I have much to catch up on however discerning the differences the fish can actually see between even shades of smoke with red flake and smoke with silver flake.. I need to reevaluate my methods…
I have to say that I love when things like this happen and at the same time hate when I am wrong. –grin-
Jc

Dr. Loren Hill, chairman of the University of Oklahoma’s Zoology Department and Director of Biological Research, found after a nine year study, that bass were sensitive to ALL colors tested and they could even discriminate between green, blue green, light green and dark green. A point to remember, however, is that bass perceive color differently than we do and that the color in any lure depends on the light reflected off the object. Thus, the color can be perceived differently 10, 15 or 20 feet down.

(In Fisherman) in my estimation it’s vital to factor in the colors each fish species sees well. Our best scientific evidence suggests, for example, that bass see best the colors in the red-orange and green portion of the spectrum, although they also can see all the other colors we see. So, bass can be discriminating in the red-orange and green portion of the spectrum. They can tell pumpkin from pumpkin-red from watermelon-red. They can tell smoke from smoke with red flakes from smoke with silver flakes.

Even if bass don’t see the color red as we see it, wouldn’t they still assosiate blood with the color we see as red? I’ve never heard that bass can’t see red, and the only study I’ve seen said that they see the color red very well in shallow water, but that book was copywrited in 1983. I guess all succeeded in doing was raising more question?

Chad

Chad,
You might want to re-read the last post I submitted…
Contrary to what I read in some obscure report a 9 year study suggests that bass can see RED better than most other colors. This also might suggest the typically good bite on Red Rattletraps in the spring. The fish are feeding on anything they can see and according to this study bass see red the best….
jc

JC, I had my post written and to step away from the computer before actually posting it, and hadn’t read your reply yet. SORRY!!

Now, ask yourself, do bass SEE it better, or do they REACT better to it? If it is interpreted by bass as blood/fish-wound and bass are opportunistic feeders, might they be like you and I with free donuts in the office?

Also, to answer the previous question: I, for one, have been known to replace my front treble on my cranks with a red wide gap Gammy hook… on clear water. Not sure it matters on the Miss. But, have seen it make a world of difference on clear lakes up north.

Cool, I just didn’t want you to think they couldn’t see red because of my inaccurate info…
jc

Well, after reading the first post I was all ready to pipe up with red being one of the colors that bass see best, but I guess that is already taken care of!!

Red is the first color to fade from light absorption, but if I remember right, it is not absorbed until after 5 feet or so. I also remember vaguely (but would have to look it up), that red is absorbed more rapidly in clear water than turbid water for some reason.

Another point I think may play a role is that since bass can best see the colors in the green and red-orange spectrum, I think they can also more easily see the red contrast to the green in a watermelon red lure. I think this also is true with black (which they can likely easily see, though the “color” black is never usually discussed in color articles).

I am curious also to the statement that black neon catches the most bass on the river. In my own observations over the past two years, I have tried black neon and watermelon red tubes and brush hogs back to back in the same areas at the same time, and most often, especially in the summer, the watermelon far out caught the black neon. Only in the spring and fall has the black been as good for me. I have thoeries this may have to do with the colors of the crawfish at these times of year, couple with the different angles of the sun penetration into the water and the differences in typical water clarity.

I also feel the watermelon/green pumpkin/pumkin colors present a natural appearance of camoflage to the fish, and don’t let the fish really examine the bait fully. It just presents cues of a meal, without letting the bass examine the presentation for flaws in realism as well.

Great topic!!

I said that Black Neon is the most popular… Nope its not the pattern I use.. Only Blue Fleck knows those.

The fact if based on Tackle Sales. I know a couple of suppliers and they say hands down this is the most popular color and this would also suggest that is catches the most fish by logics standards. Funny thing is that many of them use a different pattern as well. I have a handful of about 4 colors I use and it has not been mentioned.. I like it that way.

jc

I’M GLAD THIS TOPIC CAME UP. IT MAY BE ONE OF THE TOPICS THAT MOST DIVIDE FISHERMAN. DOES COLOR MATTER? I SAY IT DOES. I GUESS WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW IS RED REALLY IMPORTANT IN STAINED WATER. MY INITIAL THOUGHTS ARE NO, AS LONG AS THE COLOR YOUR USING IS DARK. IN STAINED WATER, ISN’T THE RATTLE OR VIBRATION THE ELEMENT THAT CATCHES THE FISHES EYE. MAYBE THE RED COLOR CAN CLOSE THE DEAL, BUT FROM WHATS BEEN TAUGHT TO ME IS THAT INJURED BAIT FISH SWIM IN ODD PATTERNS, CAUSING A DIFFERENT VIBRATION THAT TRIGGERS THE BASS TO INVESTIGATE OR STRIKE. OR A CRAWFISH HAS A DISTINCT CLICKING SOUND WHEN ESCAPING. I WOULD ALMOST BET A DOLLAR THAT THE BASS DOESN’T STRIKE THAT BAIT FISH OR CRAYFISH BECAUSE OF A RED COLOR. AGAIN, THIS ONLY APPLIES TO STAINED WATER, OR DOES IT?
AND TO NOT DISAGREE, BUT IN THE RATTLETRAP BEING RED THEORY, I STILL SAY THE “RATTLE” IS WHAT CATCHES THE FISH, ESPECIALLY IN STAINED WATER. I CAN’T SAY THE SAME HOLDS TRUE IN CLEAR WATER. BUT IF COLOR ALONE WAS THE REASON THE BASS STRUCK THE LURE, WOULDN’T IT MAKE MORE SENSE TO USE A WORM WITH A WIDE GAP HOOK. THAT WOULD YEILD BETTER HOOKUP-TO-LAND RATIO’S.
KEEP UP THE GOOD TOPIC’S, I LOVE TO TALK ABOUT FISHING.
TBASS

How do you define stained water? I think bass can see pretty well through most of the river colors, except when it is pretty muddy.

The Red Trap theory on Lake Fork has been discussed in many magazines. No one really knows for sure why it holds, but it has proven time and again in spring down there red traps catch more fish than any other color, so color must play and important role.

You bring up an interesting side point on the wide gap hook thing though. Do most people not use a wide gap hook when worming? I use one (Owner Rig-n-Hook) with all but the thinnest power worms, and it hasn’t seemed to effect the number of strikes I get.

MOSSBOSS, AGAIN ANOTHER QUESTION THAT CAN DIVIDE FISHERMAN. I DON’T HAVE A SPECIFIC DEPTH OR SCIENTIFIC METHOD TO DETERMINE WATER CLARITY. THERE HAS TO BE A CLARITY AT WHICH BASS NO LONGER RELY ON SIGHT, BUT RATHER RELY ON OTHER SENSES TO FIND FOOD. THAT WOULD BE A GOOD DEFINITION FOR STAINED WATER. YOU MAY DESCRIBE IT AS DIRTY OR MUDDY. MY POINT BEING, IF A BASS RELIES ON THOSE OTHER SENSES TO LOCATE AND ATTACK FOOD, THEN CAN COLOR (OTHER THAN LIGHT AND DARK) BE THAT IMPORTANT?
THE LAKE FORK DEBATE WILL RAGE ON. I DON’T HAVE ANY IDEA WHAT THE CLARITY IS IN THAT LAKE. IT MAY BE MUDDY, IT MAY BE CLEAR. I FISH SMALL LAKE AROUND MY HOUSE THAT IS REAL FUN IN EARLY SPRING. WE THROW RATTLETRAPS AND BURN THEM AS FAST AS THE REEL WILL ALLOW. THE FIRST COLOR THAT I HAD SUCCESS ON WAS AN ORANGE FIRETIGER PATTERN. I THOUGHT THAT IT WAS AS MUCH COLOR AS IT WAS LURE ACTION. BUT THE MORE TRIPS I MADE AND THE DIFFERENT COLORS I’VE THROWN TELLS ME IT IS THE ACTION NOT THE COLOR. THE LAKE IS FAIRLY DIRTY IN SPRING ALSO. ALL I CAN SAY IS I THINK COLOR IS IMPORTANT IN CLEAR WATER WHEN FISH RELY ON SIGHT TO FEED. TBASS

the color issue always gets me thinking, I tend to believe that color is the least important variable when considering lures, of primary consideration in my book is size, vibration, and presentation e.g. erratic retrieve. I am not denying that color matters, but in my experience, if you figure out what they want in terms of size speed and vibration, color becomes a non issue. Also with this in mind it is easy to find good deals on “off colors” especially in crainkbaits, can anyone think of a time when color really mattered when throwing something like a husky jerk, and if so, was the comparison including fisherman using the same retrieve and action, and were the fisherman of equal ability? the fine tuning of fishing becomes challenging, and when we are talking about a bite or two, maybe color has its place, but overall, i think color is more to grab fisherman than fish,one last comment, I use the heck out of 3 and 4″ power grubs on the river, ALWAYS PUMPKIN, why pumpkin?, it’s all about confidence I have confidence in the pumpkin thus I fish them better I think. I also know that I could probably do just as well on bubble gum

Heres another question that is gonna is gonna divide fishermen…What kind of traps does everyone throw??? I like the cotton cordell rattle traps and the orginal Bill Lewis rattle traps!

I agree with your point that in certain situations bass rely on their other senses to locate food. In fact, I would say in most water clarities bass rely on other senses to a certain extent to locate their prey. I guess the question is, what triggers the bass to take that last step after locating and seeing prey, what makes them actually attack it and eat it? That is where color plays into the equation.

I do think though that bass rely on sight as a feeding mechanism and decision maker in far muddier water than many people think. Bass are generally sight feeders, and even in muddy water I think rattles and vibrations help them locate food, but at least for a split second they see it and take in the visual stimuli before they attack.

I would say some days color really doesn’t matter at all, and some days it can make a huge difference. Also, it likely matters less on reaction type baits as opposed to slower moving presentations like Texas rigged plastics and flipped jigs.

Tough question to answer.

Bill Lewis and rapala.

As for color….
Well, Yep I have had color play a major role..
Head to Okoboji in the spring and start comparing any pattern husky jerk against the emerald shad patteren and let me know how you fair.

This also holds true on most Lakes I fish. I have seen a tendency for blue fleck worms to outproduce on mesetrophic lakes when compared to redshad… Yep they are 2 of my primary colors.
jc

JEREMY,
I CAN TELL THIS IS SWITCHING TO A WATER CLARITY ISSUE RATHER THAN LURE COLOR. I THINK THE TWO GO HAND IN HAND. ANYWAYS, WOULD YOU CONSIDER THIS SPRING PATTERN ON OKIBOJI (SP) A CLEAR WATER SITUATION? I TEND TO ASSOCIATE JERKBAITS WITH CLEAR, COLD WATER. WHAT COLORS WORK LATER IN THE YEAR? ARE THEY SIMILAR TO THE EMERALD SHAD? MY POINT BEING, IF WATER IS CLEAN OR CLEAR THEN I WOULD AGREE THAT THE LURE COLOR IS MUCH MORE IMPORTANT. TONY

favorite trap is Bill Lewis, Back to color, JC– on Okaboji, what kind of difference did you experience, was it a 5 to1 or 2 to 1, etc, when comparing the shad color to others, interesting that it made a big difference, although I do believe those Iowa great lakes are very clear I just have never experienced that even in some of the gin clear lakes up here in NW WI, interesting how different fisherman see different things and experience different things, that is why I never get tired of fishing, and never stop learning

I will first say that this is oligitrophic lake resulting in a very clear lake.. I would say 20 feet on West Lake. One of the primary forage base for smallies is the emerald shiner. The emerald flash in my mind is making the difference. When the sun is at you back you can watch fish react to your presentation. I noticed a obvious difference on more than one instance. I would say it was a 2 or 3 to 1 deal. The biggest factor was that if you were way off mark with your pattern you would not get a second look.
jc