Bass Behavior.

So, in spring, they come up, do their thing in the shallows, and then swim off to the deeper areas to feed on shad, for example, for the summer. But, some don’t move out; they remain shallow…

Is that how the pad or slop bite is explained? Certainly the water’s cooler under pads and slop than in the open, but I’m just wondering if what I’ve written is even remotely resonable. It must be somewhat, otherwise how do we explain the slop and pad bite?

I’d like to hear what other’s points of view.

Here’s what’s been working for me on the Miss & Winneconne: pitch/flippin’ or swimming green pumpkin or green watermelon w/red flake RC Tackle tubes. Same thing with jigs (swiming). Also, 1/4oz – 3/8oz Matzuo spinner baits in a perch pattern(I’ve used others, but they seem to nail these about 50% more of the time; I think they just don’t see’em as often). And, to no one’s suprise, pearl RC Tackle DOA Shads.

Thanks,

OnTheWater

Hmmmmm,

So, are you theorizing that some bass remain shallow after spawning, and never leave these areas, while other bass spawn in the shallows and then move to deeper water to feed on pelagic baitfish such as shad and shiners? It is an interesting theory, almost like two “sub-species” or groups of largemouth, a shallow water stationary group, and a roaming, more open water feeding group. And the bass that are caught in the slop fall into the first group. If I understand what you are saying right.

Don’t know if I buy into that or not. It is a VERY good question though, and likely a big key in finding summer bass. So, bass will move to the spawning grounds in spring, moving not all at the same time, but over a period of time. Then I think bass disperse, heading to their summer “home ranges”. I tend to think once at their home ranges, for a lack of a better term, they will position themsleves within this area based on finding a)adequate oxygen b)food and c)cover. I tend to believe that they will move around based on the 3 things listed above. Why they would be in the slop: is that is it cooler, it often has a better DO supply due to the cooler water and the photosynthesis of the plants, there may be good food supply (small panfish, minnows, YOY bass, crawfish, and to a lesser extent frogs, mice, etc.), and bass love overhead cover. But I’m kind of getting off on a tangent. I personally think some bass may move in and out of the slop and pads at times based on the water conditions and the prey availability. Some may remain shallow right from the spawn through fall, but I just feel that is the exception and not the rule. And this is not even taking into account the changes in river level that river bass see. This is likely a major factor in their positioning.

I have read that small bass roam far more than big bass.

This could get to be a long intersting topic. Or, it could die after this long rambling!!

You are right on track. The part about roaming…. Read the In fish tracking studies done on pool 11. Try studying Delta largemouth and then let me know what your opinions on largemouth roaming.. I’ll try to get some of my old info and email it to you.
jc

onthewater-only will comment on the Winneconne. The fish I found WERE shallow. Less than 1 ft. Most of mine fish and my buddies were 8 inches..some slop..rest rocks..Buzzers and finesse wormys did it for us.. I think that why alot of guys struggled. They thought the fish should be in the summer pattern. To me they seemed almost like a pre-spawn situation. Make sense..nope it shouldn’t. Anyhow I’ll take my little check and spend it pre-fishing this weekend in Prairie. Does anybody know of a good place in Priarie to get a nice cold beer. Any place else to see the sight..if ya no what I mean…seriously

Spring lake diner. By the way, I dont like connie because its about 6 hours away… I drive 3 to get ot the river… 6 hours and then I have to idle 6 more to get to my fish makes me grumpy.
jc

For just a beer I like the Sawmill or Jim’s. Spring Lake has good food. Depending on the “sites” you want to see you can go across the street from the Sawmill, but sometimes those sites are a little scary! I’ll be out this weekend prefishing also. Taking a little trip to Canada next week, so won’t fish the river again until after the 29th.

As far as the bass go, I would probably say that my experience has been that river level and forecast are the most important thing. As a general “strategy” (in quotes, because it’s so laughably oversimplified) I eliminate half the water based on what the river is doing.

Once I’ve done that, I look for the cover and food like MossBoss said. Lakes are a different story, and as an Iowa boy, my experience on still water is somewhat limited.

For beer info in Prairie, I’d ask this guy:

Yeah, ever since I was a little shaver, I’ve wondered about the question I asked you guys.

The O2, forage and cover notion is very reasonable, and I agree with it. Now, I’m going to try to locate that In Fish study on pool 11.

This weekend my wife and kid go back down to VA, my boat’s at the mechanic’s, and, well, I got some weeds to pull and trees to drop … The following weekend I’ll be in Praire though, so if’n any of yous wanna go fishin’ next weekend, let me know, hey.

OnTheWater

Big G I have to agree with you. I pretty much decide where I’m gonna fish that day by water level and flow, even in backwater and slop.

With regards to the original question, If there is a piece of lumber or a rock there and 6 inches of water,(soft), and your on the Mississippi,(pools 3-12), there are bass around. Spawn ,post spawn, summer, fall. If we narrow it down to 2.75# or bigger though there are suddenly a bunch more pieces to the puzzle. I expect to have it completely solved by 2078.. In other words the Bass and Walleye both, seem to break some the rules all the time. If you read all the books on hows, wheres, whens, with that I’d guess you will come up with the solution or at least where to start about 2/3s of the time. The other 1/3 is what makes it fun.

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If we narrow it down to 2.75# or bigger though there are suddenly a bunch more pieces to the puzzle. I expect to have it completely solved by 2078..

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Ok, Mountain Man… you sparked my interest!

This is the fundamental question I proposed when I first started posting… I typically can catch a fish or two(and, I think most of us that read this forum can given enough time and a wee bit of luck – and a little live bait! ), but CONSISTENTLY being able to find big fish has to have some secrets… at least I think so, since I have been able to catch them, but certainly not all that often.

So, do you mind sharing some of your thoughts? I really do wish to learn. MY comments on finding the big ones are… find O2, Freshwater, some structure, food, AND access to DEEP water (>5 ft) and you have a spot for large fish…

Though, some have said that is completely wrong, that deep water doesn’t matter. And, having fresh water/ some current doesn’t matter either.

What are some of the forum readers comments? Perhaps the EFN pros have some thoughts on this, too? Mountain man, you, too!

I really think a person has to find a style of fishing that suits them and then get proficient at it. Then you go find the areas that matches up with your style. Ex. JC likes fishing around the main channel and catching smallies, he spents alot of time looking there because that is what he likes. I like sloughs with current in them and wood. I spend my time there. The difference will be on payday who finds the spot with fish on it. My point is that fish are all over the river you just have to find them. Weed fish are probably the most consistent out there as far as staying put, but even that isn’t a for sure. One thing is for sure, the more fish I catch the less I know for sure.

Just some obsevations.

1 Larger bass seem to like just a little bit more cover and seem to stick very close to it. Taken to extreme even in slop I get more fish close to lumber points and rocks.

2 A large percent of my bigger bass were caught in or very near some type of current either flow, or wind driven. Even in slop areas,(Jeremy first pointed out the slop thing to me just last year).

3 When fishing wood with spinnerbaits.the biggest bass come from older laydowns,(with 2-5 feet of water depth around it), that has been under-cut by current . They seem to prefer the very back corner where the tree meets the shore.

I’m ready to take notes and learn some stuff whose next. I already noted some of the lures and info above.

Reel Guy: A bass in not a scientist, even though ol’ Billy seems to outsmart me on more occasions than I’d like to admit. His behaviour is driven by survival instinct. What a guy needs to do (and I’m pretty darned bad at it) is determine what is the primary motivation of the fish right now and he will no doubt find himself with a full livewell.

The reason that I consider current and level the #1 factor is that a largemouth is lazy and wants to avoid high current if possible. Add to this the large amounts of yummy bass-food that are available in the newly-formed shallows of a rising river, and you have a bass bonanza in areas where they can move up to feed and avoid the current. Conversely, they are also pre-programmed not to get cut off when the water is receeding. When the river level starts to drop, bass will move deep. They do not “reason” or “think,” it is completely instinctive. The water starts receeding and sticking around is just a bad idea, so oftentimes they will tolerate some additional current or move unnecessarily deep.

It’s difficult to say ‘bass’ without making the distinction between LMB’s and SMB’s, because each has their own priorities and motivating factors. I tried to take a stab at the differences in priority between the two, but it’s just too difficult as there is an incestuous relationship between many of the factors that makes it impossible to prioritize (i.e. baitfish will be near cover, cover produces dissolved o2, slop provides overhead cover, yadda yadda – what is really drawing him there? Everything!).

I think it’s fair to say that while you can describe all the factors that motivate a bass, the final answer is “He knows it when he sees it.” With enough time on the water, a good bass fisherman can probably say the same thing 90% of the time. The other 10%, there’s something we don’t understand happening and attempts to figure it out result in head-shaking, drooling, and eventually insanity.

Gianni – Great comments. Thanks.

I have to say, I agree with the comments and share in your insights. SO, one final question remains… is the BIG fish water much different than the medium size fish water? In other words, I can usually catch a limit of 14-16″ fish (not last night – insanity!!!), but finding those that press 3 lbs or more is something of a challenge. I do find them, but it is not a regular occurrance. I understand others to catch them “regularly”… is this pure bunk, or is there distinguishable areas, presentations, etc. that will result in higher percentages of larger fish?

Just interested in learning from other comments.

I wish I knew the answer to that

Maybe some catfishing or muskie fishing info is relevent here. The bigger fish tend to be more solitary than their smaller counterparts. Oftentimes, if you know of a ‘good’ snag which holds big cats regularly, you can sink a bait and spend a good hour or two waiting for that big sucker to come out of hiding and bite. I’ve been told by reputable muskie anglers that big esox are the same way. Big fish eat big meals, and don’t do so as often as the smaller critters. It boils down to a matter of willpower between you and the fish.

Compare that to a snag or rip-rap bank that holds a lot of smaller fish. It’s unlikely that I’ll sit there for more than five minutes without a nibble. My typical rule of thumb for almost any fishing is “10 minutes without a bite, switch baits; three switches without a bite, MOVE!”

If the same holds true for bass or not, well, someone who knows the answer will have to chime in. I suspect that I personally pull up to a spot that holds a good sized bass, cast for ten minutes, and leave without giving it the opportunity it deserves to find my livewell. I think that tournament anglers in general (and I’m not one of them) have a similar mentality: It’s better to run to the active fish than it is to sit on top of a non-biter and ‘pray for rain.’

Gianni wrote, “The other 10%, there’s something we don’t understand happening and attempts to figure it out result in head-shaking, drooling, and eventually insanity.”

Well that there then explains the stains on my shirt and the “happy pills” my wife gives me when I walk through the door .

These have been some outstanding responses… Give yourselves a roud of applause and Linies or root beer .

Sometimes I’ll throw to normal areas and crack a monster; 99% of the time, I’ll catch the norm from that area.

I’ve noticed that I’ve caught my larger fish from areas in which they’re the only fish (I’m not cathin’ any others or shorties). That isn’t a “rule” though. Just an observation.

When I’ve used larger lures, I’ve tended to get fewer bites but larger fish. That’s almost always; again, not a rule.

The only rule I’ve found so far is this: The newbie I take, or if I take my wife who throws lures according to their “prettiness ,” will always nail a hog. That is not only an observation, but a steadfast rule, boys and girls .

Thanks ,

OnTheWater

Hey, guess what? Just found out my boat is done! So, I may be in Praire this weekend as mama is goin’ back down to Virgina for a few weeks AND she’s leaving me with some $!

Later,

OnTheWater

Sorry to burst anyone’s bubble. The big fish are in all the same areas as the small fish. The reasons you are not catching them is because they are more finicky feeders. They have gotten this size by virtue of strong instinctual awareness. These fish spook easily, notice inconsistencies in artificial offerings and such. Things that will help you to catch more and bigger fish are having better mechanics. For example when you are pitching a tube I use the 3 ring rule. If I make more than 3 rings on the water than I am not presenting the bait in a fashion that would tip the Big Bite in my favor. It really is all a game. If you are hunting deer for instance and you stomp through the forest do you expect to see anything? If you sneak around and are quiet your odds go up dramatically.

Sound travels 4 times faster and further in water than in air. This does not mean you should not talk to your partner because the surface acts like an insulator. This does however mean that the fish did hear your entry and that this sound is not normal in its environment. When you hear a door squeak in the night it gets your attention if I am not mistaken. Some of the reasons you people draw conclusions about the big fish being loaners is that they are few and far between. This is partly true in that 6 inch bass probably don’t hang around 5lbers very often, or at least not for long.

Basically I am saying is that every where you fish you are likely to have the opportunity to catch a true monster. The problem lies in making the perfect cast, perfect presentation, and having the right size, shape, and color to trigger that big fish into striking. If you read some of the shocking reports from the DNR you will see that all sizes show up in all areas. By default there are not as many big fish as there are small but they are without a doubt in the same areas that many fish use. This I am sure. Now I am sure you can argue some of the finer points of this but speaking in general this is accurate.

Jc

Wow… great responses. Good info. To relate this to the other posts lately, I believe this is what the forum is all about… friendly eductaion based on our experiences. Great posts.

I grew up a muskie angler… I switched to BASS about 6 years ago, and am whole-heartedly ADDICTED! I made the switch once I met my goal… a 50″ 30 lb fish. Now I am in search of a 6 lb Wisconsin Largemouth… Hence my obsession with my inquiries on this site.

For what it is worth, large muskie won’t be found in shallow, weedy bays, or even rocky areas very often… you find them relating to points, drop-offs, weed-egdes… ALL with clear access to DEEP water – often hanging out over the deep water near the structure. The biggest fish hang out (often) in open water relating to underwater humps where schools of cisco hang out – their primary forage… most often they hang out alone… perhaps my inference to large bass having the same behavior has been to my dis-service.

JC – I appreciate your comments, they seem to be pretty near the target. Thanks.

Ps. All my fish 3.5 lbs and larger came from water that had easy access to deeper water on the Miss (4-10 feet), not bured in slop, etc. Has anyone caught HOGS in this less than 2 foot of slop no where near deeper water (other than spawn time)?

Out – Keep it “Reel”

Some of our largest fish have came out of slop. Usually the nastiest stuff you can find. It gets interesting pulling 4 lb fish out of thick slop but a guy has to do what a guy has to do. A long time ago there was a school of big fish in the Ambro slough that had no access to deep water, unless you want to call 5 ft deep. They had at least a 400 yard journey to water 10 ft or more.
I found your muskie info interesting. I recently solitified my 15 yr addiction to muskie fishing, meaning that is what I do now. Leaving the bass behind for the most part. I just read in Esox Angler that Dick Pearson is targeting more shallow water this year. Goes to show fish are where you find them. (especially muskie) Another thing every pool on the river fishes a little differently sometimes a person has to adjust for it.

#4 You will find certain wingdams hold larger Bass. The only other common thread the wingdams holding larger fish have is that the other species there are often also bigger. Once you find them, the size of the bass seems to stay little larger.

#5 It seems when I do end up on a school I usually catch the larger ones near the beginning of my stop. Don’t know whether they spook when your there longer or if the bigger fish are just proving they rule the roost.

#6 I have to agree with Jeremy and Kevin VanDAM(SPELLING???), that on pressured fish quite water entry may make a difference. I have to disagree though when you are fishing less pressured areas. It several 5-10 spots where I get larger LM, (where I am almost always alone except for the guide cutomer beside me), I am most effective when spinnerbait fishing the structure from 15 feet away on both sides and working in five or six cast back to the structure. Kind of like fan casting in reverse. More than 3/4,(actually all most all), of my largest LM came that way this year. The fish are so fired up by the time you get to the structure they often grab the bait out of the air. This is also where the information about where the larger fish locate on structure that I mentioned in the post above was learned.

I actually started doing this because Kevin VD mentioned the quiet thing in a seminar at the Milwaukee 2 years ago. He mentioned on grass or sand bank that he will actually cast up there with a spinnerbait and then drag it into the water. When I got to my first laydown I saw that I had a problem. No place to cast the bait quitely. I actually started the casts away like mentioned above and it worked. This is reinforced when you drift,( with wind or current), a lazy slough. I often cast the whole bank along the way and

still get nice fish even though I just popped into the water 2 or 3 times withing 5 feet.

Getting back to highly pressured areas though you often even see the fish moving to get away from the lure splashes.You might have figured out by now I don’t have a very good skip cast in my arsenal that also allows me control.

I do agree big fish get big by living places anglers don’t go or being very wary. A combination of the two NEVER hurts either. Here’s one of those exception type deals to the quiet water entry thought(now I don’t disagree with this sentiment 99.99999% of the time either!) that I need to share ‘cuz it’s just too cool…

Out on Pepin fishing the rip rap along the MN shorelines I’ve blindly stumbled upon a unique situation that works time after time after time. When one to the anglers in the boat gets snagged we go in after the bait unless the spot is producing. When I motor in to free the bait with the electric slowly I’m sure I’m spooking fish. Once the lure is free I get the boat pointed back out to deeper water and then hammer the power to the trolling motor causing a big swirl of water to blast around on the shallow rip rap. Once out to my original depth we take extra care to work the swirled up water carefull and patiently. Time after time we stick a big smallie before the swirl has even settled down. The obvious theory is that any bass in the area takes advantage of any critter that gets tossed about by the pop wash. This works so frequently it’s literally rediculous.

Anyone else ever experience anything like this? We see a similar bite in the early spring for walleye out on Pepin where we troll short lines right in the prop wash in shallow water and catch dandy eyes that we assume are picking off the YOY forage tossed butt over tea kettle in the prop wash.

I have to toss in some experiences that support the notion
of big fish can be anywhere. I use to be a muskie junkie,
and the two biggest fish I ever had strike were in shallow
water. One was a 40+ lb fish, estimated by a guide that
was working the same fish, and one was a 50+ lb fish,
estimated by me, based on how it pulled my 200 lb body
around my boat Both fish were in 5′ of water with
veggies. One night, I boated one 6 lb 8oz, and one 6 lb
15 oz, green bass, that were in different areas,
but were both in less than 5′ of water, with smaller fish
in the area. Really the forage, and the ease of catching
it, factors most heavily into where big bass will be.
They have learned to be the most efficient predators,
as evidenced by their size. Where they get the most, with
the least effort, is where they will be. The littler
fish will want to be where the big fish is, and will move
in quickly if the big fish moves off, so they almost have
to swim, what appears to us, as together.

Now on the topic of fooling big fish. Anything unusual
might fool big fish, if you consider the average
Ker Ploosh of a bait hitting the water as usual. They
have heard this before and associate it with a high
speed boat ride. After a few of these, they will get
pretty fussy about eating something that enters the
water like that. So, quiet entries are good, but unusual
entries can work, too. The throw in on the bank technique
has already been mentioned, but there are more unusual,
but effective entries. Skipping a bait, even into open
water cover can fool some big fish. Or even taking
it a step further, and skittering a bait, like a tube,
over the surface with a very low swinging pitch, can
fool bigger fish. Sometimes purposefully thowing the
bait up on the pads, and then shaking it off, and letting
it fall on slack line can fool big fish. Not to mention
letting things float to big fish on current, or fall
down to them, on deep cover. Yes quiet entires
need to be in the tool bag, but unusual approaches
from absolutely no noise(dragged off bank), to a bunch
of noise(skittering tubes/jigs), can work equally well.
Just be accurate, and unusual.

Big Bass Bane

i have also experienced what James is talking about with regard to the prop wash. I have experienced this in backwater areas as well as in current, seems to work better in current, and I stubbled on it in the backwaters one day. Fished a long point that is a known producer, caught a couple and inched too close, so i was right on the point in a foot of water, so in fear of spooking the fish I kicked butt back off the point, making a pretty good swirl with the trolling motor wash, as soon as I turned the boat around I noticed fish busting right in the wash, immediately caught a couple more, so I have done it a few more times when i run out of fish on the point, and it has produced, not every time, but enough times to be more than a fluke, my theory is that the trolling motor swirl and wash appears as a feeding fish and or school and it stimulates the fish to feed as it “washes” whatever baitfish are in the area

Interesting stuff here but I’m curious… what’s the deepest most of you will go after bass? I mean really go after them like you do in slop. I’m no bass professor but it seems like everyone I know (myslef included) is usually fishing 6 feet or less. If bass go in the slop due to temperature isn’t the water going to be colder, the deeper you go in the river too, just like on lakes? Granted there aren’t a lot of holes in the Miss that go real deep but it seems like the magic number on the norhern MN lakes is often 12-18 feet for a lot of species. Maybe the river doesn’t change with depth as much. I don’t know. I’ve never checked the temp at different depths in the river. The reason I ask is how do we know there aren’t any bass in a 12′ hole when we usually don’t throw a lure in that deep to see if there’s a bite. Maybe I’m way off base and there’s been a lot experimenting trying to fish them deep on the river. I’m not trying sour the discussion but I really am curious to hear the deepest spot that someone has pulled bass out of while actually fishing for bass.

I’ve caught some bass rigging behind wingdams in some pretty deep water… 15’+ and Dustin and I both have a “secret” rockpile up near Red Wing that is in some DEEP water and we take some dandy bass from that spot every spring. In that location we’re talking 20+’. I will grant you that most of my fishing is done in shallow water too but give a fish some good habitat that offers protection from the current and a place to feed and you WILL find fish to fill that area.

Out on Lake Pepin, it really is a river too I guess, it’s very common to work off the rip rap into 10+’ of water.

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Just be accurate, and unusual.

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Not surprising. Who’s the guy who always leaves deer camp with the biggest buck? The guy who’s never where he’s supposed to be, doing things that aren’t supposed to work.

from my experiences over the years, i would say 90% of large bass wheather it be smb or lmb, they use natural funnels to bring the forage to them. Large fish do not like to expend alot of energy chasing down food- simply let the food come to them . These natural funnels are usually always present where you normally catch big fish- just have to learn the little qurks about these funnels. this make sense?

It makes perfect sense. The biggest fish get the best locations. Its kind of like watching children. The most aggressive and biggest kid is always first in the candy line. I agree entirely with this concept however I will also add that the bigger fish will often use this area at specific times during the day and then back off into safer water. Champman will be most likely able to offer more info on this subject as he found 5 of these last weekend along with a few of the average size one would expect. Congrats by the way!!! We really needed that last fish to go with our others. The fish we had seemed to shrink overnight and the bite was less than impressive. We did manage one honest 4lb fish and blew a shot at a bigger one but that is why we play the game. I would hate to speculate but I had 2 fish come screaming at my rat. One had a dorsal fin about 7 inches long and weighed 4lbs and the one that didn’t get the rat had one considerably larger. My honest best guess is that it was around 6 maybe larger. It was a true once in a summer opportunity that was not to be this time. In practice we hooked 2 in this little spot and they were so big we shook them off thinking DOGFISH…. I guess next time I will never assume anything.
Jc

It makes sense, but not always the way we’d like it to. Pardon me while I slip into geek mode:

The fact is that fish location and feeding habits are chaotic (mathematically speaking). We would all like to think there is some equation that can be programmed into the ‘Bass Calculator’ and each day we can measure the inputs (sunlight, weather, baro, current/flow, water level, etc), plug them in, and BAM have it spit out the answer.

Unfortuantely, there are practically unlimited numbers of inputs, and the system behaves chaotically in that small variation in any one can have a drastic effect on the outcome. It is easy to work the system in reverse, and we do this all the time when fishing, for instance:

If I find fish on a point in the channel, I can look around & take in the scene, notice dropping water level, steady weather, forage base, etc etc and figure out why the fish are there.

What I cannot do is pull the boat off the trailer and know where the fish are going to be with certainty. That is why I start to eliminate chunks of the river based on what I know, leaving me with a smaller area that I need to cover.

Whoever eliminates the most water (without being wrong, of course) will be first on the fish!