top water bite

Bass have been on tear lately, been doing good an poppers around lillypads and weed lines. They have been wanting a slow presentation. Let the rings dissapear then pop again. Tight lines out there.

Just curious what pool of the river are u fishing?

Bass boy,

Dodgeboy is on pool 5a but it also worked on Saturday on Pool 4 where he won the bass class in a tough bite situation. I fished with him and he knows where to find’em.

good luck

Jeff

Caught a huge dogfish yesterday. 39 inches. Thing was a slob but after I klunked it on the head and got rid of it I realized that i should of weighted it. What is the wi state record for dogfish. is there even one out there.

Man am I mad, Just looked it up and the record is just 13 lbs 1 oz. 31.6 inches long. This one was all of that and then some. From now on I’m gonna keep this on my mind while fishing. moonseye is only 1 lbs. 9 oz. so keep that in mind when you catch one of those.

Hey Dodgeboy,

You should have kept that fish. Just think you could have owned the record for the Wisconsin State fish! Whatta deal.

Jeff

I know. What a swift kick in the @ss huh. Well there is always next time. Went out last night just farting around in some little cut about 9 foot wide 4 inches deep for the first 15 yards but then deepened to about 6 feet. Looks good but only had two small ones pitching tube baits.

Those fish are good for nothing. They are kinda neat when they turn that lime green but the only thing they are good for is garden fertilizer. Just like carp and suckers.

Ok, I don’t mean to step on any toes here, but I probably will. First off I am a hardcore basser, I love catching them. But, I do have a problem with killing a fish just because it was my target species. I will bet dollars to donuts that the dogfish fought harder than any bass I will catch this year in Mn. I catch a lot of “other species” while fishing, and I would not clunk any of ’em for not being the fish I wanted. For me it’s just a matter of respect for the fish, wether it be a dog, a sheephead, carp, cat. eye, or a bass. Bottom line ……if it bites I am happy.(even happier when it’s big ol slob bass!!)LOL

~~~~~~alkfish

I don’t think that stepping on toes is necessarily a bad thing, since some debates are worth having.

I don’t know a thing about a dogfish. Never even seen one. What I do know is that there are some species that do more harm than good. I don’t admire zebra mussels. I’ve never heard of anyone scraping them out of their livewell of off of their boat and thinking “Boy, these sure are cool.” Nobody in their right mind would admit to it if they did.

Carp are another good example of a European import that has done a tremendous deal of harm with little benefit. They eat fish eggs, they can destroy habitat, on and on and on. Also, I figure they must ‘absorb’ chemicals more readily than native species, since the only eating advisories that I’ve ever seen posted for the river were for carp. When they die off and get eaten, when the young-of-year get eaten, what do you suppose happens to the gamefish that eats them?

The DNR here in Iowa is has been re-stocking river otters, which will apparently help to keep them in check, but canoeing last weekend every sandbar that we passed was slugged with carp sticking 1/2 out of the water wallowing. I have no problem with the fact that the DNR here discourages returning them to the water.

A dogfish may be a different story, I would not kill a fish unless DNR biologists and other well-versed people instructed me to do so.

I just think it’s not a long stretch to realize that you don’t have to like a fish to release it. You fish for the fight and it’s almost always given! You release because you want the same thrill tomorrow! Two of the greatest fights I’ve ever endured came from carp. Good for nothing? Bull! Between the 2, I was given over an hour’s worth of heart pumping adrenalin and entertainment! The only way you can be disappointed by what’s on the other end of the line is if you’re out to kill a fish that’s “good for something”. And that, in theory, seems ironically backwards. If you kill a fish for reasons of uselessness, why would you kill something proclaimed to be useful? Are they useful……………..or just useful for you? Biologically, the “useful” fish are only that way because of an ecosystem that has been created for them. They appear to be “good fish” because they’re where they belong. So, let’s take this a step further…………..if the dogfish is native, much like the other “good fish”, how is it useless,…………………….unless it’s just useless for you?

Wow…interesting debate here. I think both sides have good points. Personally, I have a hard time harming fish or killing things (good thing I don’t hunt–not that there’s anything wrong with that). As humans able to manipulate the environment (usually for the worse), I think we have a responsibility to uphold living conditions for other animal species. Anyway, I’m strict catch and release regardless of the species. I’m 19 and haven’t filleted a fish for 5 or 6 years. Like you guys, I’m a big bass fisherman, and they provide me with so much fun and adventure I find it fitting to at least put ’em back. Heck, I feel bad when I hook a bass too deep. For example, I nailed an 18″ smallie the other day on a Pop-R. He just blew up on it and inhaled the bait! One hook got down in his throat and he started bleeding out the side some and I felt so bad! I got it out as soon as possible and forgot about my photo and just released him. As for other fish, well, it isn’t their fault they got in the water. Call me sappy, a tree-hugger, what have you, but that’s a life swimming there, too….they’re just a squirrel trying to get a nut like anything else. I’m sorry, but I just can’t kill a fish for being there. Furthermore, if I’m not mistaken, carp were actually introduced here on purpose by Europeans as they are considered quality game fish there. I’ve heard that they’re excellent eating smoked. As for Zebra mussles, well, they were also introduced by the fault of man (from what I’ve heard, people emptying their ballasts in the Great Lakes). Well, what’s done is done and I think, as a whole, we’re best following DNR biologists, as Gianni said. I personally have no problem with dogfish or carp, even though I don’t particularly like catching them (it is a hard fight, though!!). Also, I don’t like when people throw fish up on the bank to suffocate. I’m sorry, but that disgusts me. One other point on carp (credit here goes to Ray Scott, founder of B.A.S.S.): they are absolutely the best fish to go after when trying to get kids into fishing. They’re big, they fight hard, they’re easy to hook, and there are usually plenty around in an area to catch. I guess it could be argued that these fish help ensure the future of angling. Are they really that useless, then?

I will have to agree with the pup on this one. I am out there for the fight. 99% CPR. The fight is the best part in my mind. I think that catching a 10# carp puts up as much a fight as a 25# northern. Some fishermen might think that a carp or sheeps are worthless and should not exist. This is not the same for everyone. There have been a few times that I have been offered money for the carp that I catch!! To some cultures this is a delecacy. (Better then eyes). So to make a long post short, everything was put on this planet for a reason so we should respect that, and respect ALL sorts of wild life.

Just my input. (sorry to step on any toes here)

I’m a hardcore basser to but it used to be against the law to release dogfish ,carp, gar,etc. until some freak in the state house said it was wrong next it will in humane to fish at all by the way I carry a bat for the likes of dogs or even better yet gar

Gar are a native species but are lumped in with rough fish. So if it was illegal to return a “rough fish”, that would include them! Not that they’re useless or do any harm, they’re just not game fish…………again, strongly due to traditions created in these lands based on food or some other self/life benefiting purpose! There’s more to it than just a stupid (please excuse the term) politician because one guy can’t do anything in our government system. It takes many to create a change and if the rough killers didn’t present a case, a persuasive, beneficial case to the same voting legislature, it’s not my fault and it doesn’t make the opposition wrong.

Try and take fishing away completely and you’ll see a much different story.

Now, if neanderthal tradition makes you proud to be an outdoorsman, go ahead………………..hold your bat high. But if you’re clubbing and throwing back into the water in MN or WI, don’t get caught………………..that’s illegal. I’d hate to see you get fined for practicing your legal right to be a “sportsman”.

Gar are native. So again, they’re part of our ecosystem, they DO belong here, and just because they don’t feed you doesn’t mean they’re useless. I challenge you to research them and find out what benefits they carry for the native ecosystem. Could be interesting for both of us.

“I carry a bat for the likes of dogs or even better yet gar”

Just so I get this straight, you get these types of fish in the boat, and, when they’re helpless, beat them with a bat until they’re dead?! Wow, that is hardcore.

Why do I always have to be the antagonist??? I shouldn’t have started this.

Carp were introduced here on purpose by European anglers (pronounced “idiots”) who found them to be “the king of sportfish.” In Europe, they are still held in very high regard, especially by fly fisherman. They are extremely difficult to take on a flyrod, and most people would probably consider a flyrod carp a better trophy than the 8′, 100lb Pike that they grow over there. While I agree that a carp puts up a tremenous fight and is easy to catch, I don’t find them to be useful.

Some of you may be forgetting that not everyone on this board is from Minnesota and Wisconsin. When it comes to fishing, Iowa is a uniquely southern state, with channel cats being the reigning(sp?) king of sportfish here. As far as I know, keeping and eating some limited number of channel cats is not harmful to either the fishery or the frypan. If it was, the DNR would change the limits. Keep in mind that they are the experts and the rest of us are a bunch of arm-chair quarterbacks when it comes to fisheries management. We have neither the training nor the data available to make the decisions that they make.

The two arguments are rebutted as follows:

1. Carp are good fighters and that’s what I’m out for. It should be noted that with appropriate tackle, any fish is a good fighter. Is carp your primary target every time out? If they’re so darned great at stretching lines, then why not?

If you are attempting to justify your dislike for someone else’s activity (i.e. clubbing fish) then consider the following: I can be angry that people cheat on their taxes without being pro-tax. I can speak out against armed robbery and murder without being pro-gun control. I can abhor the bombing of abortion clinics without being pro-choice.

2. They’re here now, so let’s assimilate them into our ecosystem. This argument seems rather foolish. Are the africanized bees coming up through Mexico also welcome? Should we all buy tee-shirts that say, “Welcome killer bees, Free Food!” with an arrow that points to our face? Cancer was relatively abnormal until the industrial revolution, should we just accept that now more people die from cancer, since “it’s here now, and it has a place in our life-cycle.” HIV?? Mad Cow disease?? Should I keep going??

People just can’t get it through their heads that every living thing may NOT have a valid place in our ecosystem. Humans have a responsibility to act as CARETAKERS of the environment, which may mean that hard choices need to be made. If any one of us could go back and halt human progress in it’s tracks to save the spotted three-toed tree sloth, I hope they’d send someone like me. I like computers, I like outboard motors, I like fishfinders, and I like air conditioning.

Sorry this got so long-winded, but I’m a politically intense person. Now if you could use the club on the politicians… that would be of real value.

tidnab, I understand your reasoning for wanting to kill what you consider rough fish. Heck, when I was younger I used to do the same thing. After awhile you should appreciate all living things, it usually comes with maturity. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not against killing animals or fish for food or other uses. I hunt and I do keep fish if I feel the need for a fish dinner. I also agree with Gianni, if the DNR or another regulatory body feels that one fish is harming others and need to be thinned out then perhaps it is neccessary to kill for that reason. What I can’t stand is to kill a fish or animal just because you can.

Don’t kill native PREDATORS, like dogfish, simply to kill.

Not long ago it was common practice for ice fishermen to throw eelpout on the ice on Minnesota lakes to freeze to death as opposed to simply releasing them down the hole. The individual’s motive of course was to in some way insure that they were doing their part to rid their favorite lake of all those “no good rough fish.” Game wardens would step over piles of frozen eelpout to inspect an anglers fishing license and were unlikely to say a word about the discarded fish left to rot on the ice.

After years of simply tossing every ‘pout caught onto the ice soon the angler’s favorite lake became over-run with small perch. Test net results revealed the walleye population was still very high despite the fact that very few anglers caught walleye anymore. See, the problem was all those darn perch. With all that food, a walleye didn’t need to take an anglers offering. Sure the walleye ate a ton of little perch but they simply couldn’t keep the population in check. Now anglers were throwing all the eelpout AND scads of tiny perch onto the ice in an attempt to help thin out the hords of perch that seemed to be the source of the problem.

Sound like a fairy tale? If you fished northern MN lakes in the winter 10 years ago, you know better.

Recently wardens and CO’s in MN have begun a campaign to educate anglers of the “necessity” in returning eelpout and other native species back to the water alive. See, not that long ago fisheries biologists discovered that eelpout were incredibly efficient predators of YOY (young of the year) perch. By slowly eliminating one of the primary predators the prey species was allowed to populate largely unchecked. More YOY perch meant tougher walleye fishing.

Every native species exists in an ecosystem for a reason that we may or may not understand. Choosing to systematically kill a creature that fills a niche in an ecosystem we don’t fully understand is really pretty short-sighted. They may not be pretty and they may not be good to eat but you can count on their role being absolutely vital to the health of that same ecosystem.

James Holst

Moving Waters Guide Service

http://www.movingwaters.net

hmmmmmm bass forum… and talking about bugle mouth bass….. and topwater bite? interesting!

anyway….. personally I regret the introduction of ANY non-native aquatic species….. carp have been responsible for wrecking many native ecosystems that were in delicate balance to start with……. which is not to say that we ourselves have not wrecked many….. so many of our economic priorities have been responsible for massive degradation of native habitat that we ourselves are most likely responsible for much/most of the harm that has occured over the years…. still introduction of foreign species is NOT a good thing….. about the only non harmful one I can think of in relation to hunting/fishing was the pheasant……. it seemed they just exploited the new habitat created by our farms….. and provided excellent food and sport and even beauty at the same time…. Im hard pressed to come up with other similar examples…..

I’m more concerned with the needless slaughter of native species. I know carp have been lumped in to this as the eco-damage poster fish, and I’m not a carp fan. But there are a couple of times that it sure was nice having them around for a good tug-o-war vs. staring down a bobber.

My question remains………….if it’s so bad, why not put a bounty out on these things, annialate them from our ecosystems, and return trophy carping to the Europeans? DNR has the data to show the benefits and the majority of American fisherman to support it. Why not? Impossible task? Compared to zebes, it would appear there’s no concern for the carp.

My main point……………..just cuz you hate the carp shouldn’t justify the killing of all other rough fish brought to the boat. Maybe there are others that we should, but there ARE species that BELONG HERE!

Great debate just stop the @!*^ appologies. Its your opinion, don’t be sorry for that! It’s not as if anyone is imposing their beliefs on anyone else, just sharing. Too many people these days are concerned with offending someone…who cares

The word sorry is said far too frequently…Think aobut how often you say “sorry” to appease someone else, when you really believed/felt/meant what you said.

Im sorry I said sorry too much!! (lol.. I couldnt resist that one!)

as for eliminating ANY species as firmly established as carp…. nearly impossible…. I say nearly… it COULD be done… if you were prepared to destroy EVERYTHING and start over…. you know… kind of a noahs ark thing…. protect your native speices somewhere then target and destroy all finny life….. then repopulate with natives….. then in a short period of time.. some misguided individual would “restock” with carp…. *sigh*….. been there done that in fisheries management in Iowa

Where I am from dogfish and carp have ruined the lake. That is all you mainly catch. They do fight good but in wisconsin your not suppost to return a rough fish back into the water. I have taken alot of carp, dogfish, gar, etc.etc. With the bow, spear and fishing. All you out there know that bowfishing and spearing people don’t eat these fish all they become is coon food or fertilizer. Our back field is full of carp. So many I wouldn’t even begin to estimate how many. In a day you could take over 100 carp. These fish are all over rutting up everything in sight. On a calm day the shoreline looks like whitecaps. They are kinda like misquitos. But you all have your own opinion just like me.

I believe some of you guys think I target these fish and stand there hacking a way if you have ever had treble hooks removed from your body you throw caution when releasing a fish that has entered your boat and you don’t want to lose custom painted cranks the you can respect where I,am coming from. I love the river for it’s history it’s view and wildlife and if I’m wrong for killing a rough fish think about that the next time you hook a minnow or crawler or swat a skeeter which I haven,t used live bait in 20 years. I catch 2,500 keeper bass a year none have seen there demise. we are all fisherman with many presuits so I respect your view and when you see someone wave at you this weekend on the water think is that the joker with the bat . all have a good time on the water and if you have the chance read bassmater editoral this month it says it all it should be arriving in the mail soon.

I don’t believe you target these fish, oh no. Just see where I’m coming from though. As you’ve described it, I’m picturing a guy beating down some fish like it’s a mafia hit! lol Again, I am not opposed to the removal of overpopulated fish, but the bat kill just seemed a little harsh. Sorry if I took it the wrong way.

Going back to carp and other rough fish, in my experience, I haven’t seen such big swarms of carp….so I’m not necessarily against opinions from some of you guys that appear different than my own…it’s like comparing apples and oranges.

From what I’ve experienced, the Miss isn’t nearly as bad as the interior rivers are down here in Iowa. You’ve heard the phrase, “Can’t find the forest for the trees??” Well, down here it’s hard to find the darned rivers and lakes for all the carp! I know a couple of guys that are “into” carp, so in the spring and summer, I’ll bowfish, spear, anything to kill those awful junkers. The lakes down here should be teeming with big ‘gills and crappies, but lakes like that are few and far between. It’s extremely rare to have 2 foot visibility in any NE Iowa waters, partly because of runoff, partly because of the junk-fish.

We’re always talking about releaseing bass and walleyes because it is a “delicate fishery.” What if the DNR came out tomorrow with a study that showed (hypothetically now) that a 20% reduction in carp populations would mean that all bass walleyes, and crappies could be kept with no detrimental effect to the fishery? Would people still have a ‘live and let live’ mentality?

It is encouraging to see sport fisherman releasing fish to protect the fishery, but in reality, I would bet that sportfishing accounts for less than 5% of the annual turnover in fish populations. Studies have been done here that show more than 90% of [censored] pheasants can be killed off without a detectable effect on next year’s population. Their biggest enemies are a wet spring, summer storms, and poor nesting habitat. Fish fight muddy runoff, siltation in spawning areas, etc. Mother nature is a cruel [censored]. If you think you like her now, move to Antarctica for a few years.

Excellent call on the Pheasants, Rivereyes, others do exist: Trout in NE Iowa/Southern Minnesota streams, for instance. The Iowa DNR has a few more examples of non-native species that are beneficial, but I can’t remember them now.

Not to interrupt this hot debate with a simple test, but now that Rivereyes has put a new picture on, that is, one in which he doesn’t look like a prison escapee, I thought I’d try also.

JW

Gianni

For some reason your pic is showing up intermittently. I’ve seen that happen before in the past. If it shows up once that means you’ve done it right of course and the problem lies elsewhere.

Try substituting this address for the one you’re using now to point to your picture http://www.fishtheriver.com/forum/images/user_mugs/gianni.jpg

I grabbed your pic and put it on our server. To see if it works all you need to do is switch the address to the pic in your user profile and post again.

James Holst

Moving Waters Guide Service

http://www.movingwaters.net

Okay, let’s try this again.

JW