Major Fish Kill at Tournement in Sturgeon Bay

This past weekend I was a participant in the Wisconsin state bass (TBF) tournement in Sturgeon Bay.

The carnage and death that I witnessed was enough to make an average joe blow a gasket.

Unfortunately the Catch and Release Bass Tournement that I was participating in was being run out of the same launch as a Salmon tourney being run by a group that ( I think ) was out of Micihgan.

We had a couple fish die in our tournement. With the waves the first day and the DNR refusing to let us go to the calmer Lake side of Door county it was hard to avoid. But coming around the corner and being greeted with basket upon basket of dead salmon was an eye opener. Coffen size cooler after coffen size cooler where brought up and emptied. The fish mattered only as wieght and how close it got the skippers to the top of the heap. They have two fish grinders at the cleaning station that they use to grind up the fish and send them down the sewer so there are not dead bodies lying around stinking up the place. The grinders were no match for the piles of salmon carcasses stacked up next to them.

This was not some fly by night event. Judging from the logo plastered motorhome that the event was being run out and the piles of prizes being given away this event had some deep pockets behind it.

I don’t understand. Every time there is a salmon tourney or a walleye tourney the fish caught are qaurrantied death. We never hear about it. It happens in Green Bay, Sturgeon Bay, Milwaukee, Racine and every port on the lake front. Fish die and no one mention it. In sturgeon bay they have the sturgeon bay open fishing for smallmouth and almost no no fish die and no one hears about it.

Why are the tourneys that are run to catch and kill salmon and walleyes, fish that the state of Wisconsin spends a great deal of money to breed, grow and stock, given a blind eye, when the infrequent bass fish kills are news item number one? Why are there different rules for the free self sustaining and growing bass than the expensive, stocked non native salmon?

Some one out there please explain how the planned kill of all expensive, exotic, stocked salmon in a tournement is ok when the unplanned, infrequent kill of a small percentage of a free, native, self sustaining bass in an event becaumes front page news.

Please……Please…..Please

Great Point. I don’t know what else to say. I agree with you 110%

I am thinking salmon are going to die as soon as they attempt spawn anyway.

Used to fish a few tournaments, but none for the last ten years; to many dead fish. Fishing should be fun and relaxing. If people want to compete they should go to Vegas and enter a poker tournament.

BINGO!

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Fishing should be fun and relaxing. If people want to compete they should go to Vegas and enter a poker tournament.

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So we should all live by your Beliefs and Values?

Some yes some no depends on what type they are stocking.

Why no front page news? Is it because they are an exotic that we pay for? Is it because the hatchery being open keeps DNR personel employeed? Is it because the salmon fishing industry keeps the harbors busy?

Why no uproar?

I have fished in salmon derbys in the past and know people that still do quite often in the Manitowac and Two Rivers area. The events usually run 3 days with prizes awarded for the 5 largest fish in each of the following groups; King & Coho salmon, Brook, Lake and Rainbow trout. If you have purchased a derby ticket ($20 or so), you bring your fish in and weigh them and get a drawing ticket for prizes, etc. Fish are then taken to to the cleaning stations. These stations are awesome. They are all stainless steel, running water, and huge garbage disposals that handle the heads, bones, fins, etc. On saturday they usually have a Super Derby, more like tournaments for bass and walleye, where the boat if fishing for the best weight of 9 to 15 fish, depending on the tournament. With 50 to 100 boats weighing in at the same time, there will definatly be a wait to clean fish, but I’ve never seen whole fish wasted and thrown down the disposal. Some marinas also have huge walk in freezers for charter captains to keep their client catch in.

Salmon boats don’t have live wells. Fish that are of legal size are thrown in a cooler with ice. Unfortunatly there is little natural reproductin on the Wi side due to the dirtier streams. There is some more from the Mi side, but most fish caught are stocked.

One other thing, many times during the derby days the captains are taking out paying clients that will be taking those fish home to eat. The difference in theses events and a bass tourny is that these derbies are designed to bring more interest and attention to the charter fleet to better their business throughout the year.

So the State of Wisconsin supplied Salmon are harvested to provide positive economic impact to the towns in which the derbies are held. So the investment in stocking supplies a greater reason for having the event and increasing the size of the event.

The salmon are thus a non recycleable resource that leads to income for the community.

With a Bass tournement it is not necessary to start out with an investment by the State of Wisconsin because Bass are self sustaining and are not stocked. They are not a prefered food fish and at larger sizes have a strong taste. They are a hardier fish than the salmon and walleye and will have a far greater survival rate than both of them. The tournements for them to provide positive economic impact to the towns in which the derbies are held. The economic impact study that was done on the E50 BASS tournement as part of the legislaturs madated study of Bass fishing tournemnts found that the economic impact on the Chippawa valley was 2 MILLION PLUS dollors. That was a one week event. If the state allows Culling larger events in more accessable areas of the stae will result in larger economic impacts.

As for the small percentage of fish that die it is a risk that is acceptable if you examine it. Every bass that is not harvested is brood stock the following spawn. The Bass will replace themselves. In some cases (Nelson Lakeis a good example) the DNR has endorsed a Bass Catch and Kill event to attempt to decrease the populations.

This is not really about the salmon or walleye or bass tourneys. It is about the misconception that somehow the calculated risk of releasing fish to naturally reproduce and repopulate and having some die is evil and killing all of the captured fish and depending on the State to replace them is good.

What you are doing with Salmon and Walleye is working and is a benifit to the community in which they are held. The studies on Bass tournements support show the same positive results.

The second part of the puzzle is the self sustaining part. Tournement results and even DNR studies show that for the most part Bass populations are larger in both physical size and population size. The DNR study on size structure on Sturgeon Bay basically says that in spite of increased presure the population is larger and the average size is larger. These fish are adaptable and suited to there natural surrondings or changes to it. While the round gobi is labled exotic the Smallmouth have labled it FOOD.

The fish that we are after are different. The passion for the pursuit is the same. I only ask that you support me and the other Bass fishermen in protecting the reycling of the resource by catch and release tournements. If we are allowed to catch and release as we are now the populations will remain stable or grow.

And as they grow the economic impact on the communities will also.

I fish many bass tournaments every year as well as guide over 50 trips a year for bass. I support catch and release 100% in bass fishing. I don’t allow any harvest of bass and have arangments for discounted rates on replicas. I have also pushed for and had 2 paper tournies in our club to protect bass. I do much the same for walleyes with select harvest. Guide customers are usually looking for a meal, and I have no problem with that.

I think the biggest difference in species is that bass repleninsh themselves and releasing fish means more future fish with plenty of spawning habitat. That is why a sate doesn’t need to start with an investment to see economic rewards of a tourney. Most stocked walleye lakes or stocked salmon waters lack the spawning habitat to grow a population, even with no harvest. I’m sure an E50 level event would be comparable to a top level walleye event as far as economic impact, just as comparing the FLW League events would be similar to the BASS events in MN.

I think you would see on most walleye waters that only see natural reproduction that they are seeing the same increase in size and numbers. The salmon numbers go up and down more with the population of alewives, the salmon’s #1 forage, than anything else. When the bait crashed a few years ago, so did the fishing.

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They have two fish grinders at the cleaning station that they use to grind up the fish and send them down the sewer so there are not dead bodies lying around stinking up the place. The grinders were no match for the piles of salmon carcasses stacked up next to them.

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So;
to understand your statment here.

These fish caught were ground up into a “mush” and dumped into the sewer?

They were discarded and thrown away?

The fish were not cleaned and cut for people to eat?

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Why no front page news?

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I feel your pain Dan.

A couple three weeks ago there was a video posted in the cat forum that a member taped at a catfish weigh in. Fish were caught on tape being dropped onto cement, laying in the grass and in a cattle tank with recirculated water only. At least on 40+ pounder died. One fella stayed with his fish (another 40+ pounder) from beginning to release to ensure the best chance of survival.

Because of this video, there was a group formed to see what they could do to stop this from happening again…but besides that…nothing.

I wonder if it’s because no one cares about catfish?

You stated, this isn’t about Bass, Walleyes or Salmon…but it is as it’s about the fish that each one of us has a passion for.

Each fisherman protects and is sometimes overly protective of their species. Sportsman, are protective of all fish and game, well… as long as it’s convient for them with a few exceptions.

I’m thinking a catfish kill during a tourney won’t make the nightly news or backpage print anytime soon. There’s no money in it.

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I am thinking salmon are going to die as soon as they attempt spawn anyway.

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Don’t you think that if they cared much about the resource that they would want to give the salmon a chance to spawn?

The fish were in fact cleaned. The Pile of carcusses had been fillet.

What I am trying to understand is why when a planned fish kill happens it is not news but when a small percentage of fish die while trying to release them it becomes front page stuff.

Can you help explain that?

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What I am trying to understand is why when a planned fish kill happens it is not news but when a small percentage of fish die while trying to release them it becomes front page stuff.

Can you help explain that?

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I think the difference lies in the fact that the fish in Sheboygan didn’t go to waste. The fish kill in LaX resulted in many fish being buried and it looks VERY wasteful.

If you have twenty kernals of corn.

You could eat them.

Or you could plant them. If you plant them. Some of them will die and feed some microbe as they decay. Some of them will survive and thier lives will be cut short fattening up the grasshopper that ate it. Some of them will survive and generate off spring in far greater numbers than the original 20.

There is a risk to release. There will be some deaths. The river will feed off those deaths.

The risk is there but the benifits are great.

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If you have twenty kernals of corn.

You could eat them.

Or you could plant them. If you plant them. Some of them will die and feed some microbe as they decay. Some of them will survive and thier lives will be cut short fattening up the grasshopper that ate it. Some of them will survive and generate off spring in far greater numbers than the original 20.

There is a risk to release. There will be some deaths. The river will feed off those deaths.

The risk is there but the benifits are great.

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Dude, that was deep. I like it.

There is nothing wrong with fishing tournaments. I know Bass, Walleye and Cat guys do what they can to make sure the fish are kept alive and healthy during the day and the release time. I for one will still fish tournaments, if you do not want to, that is your option. Do not make it ours!

Salmon are totally different than bass/walleye. Of the 5 major species of Salmon/Trout in Lake Michigan, the only one that is hearty enough to survive catch and release is the Lake trout. Salmon will die at a very high percentage, unlike bass, walleye, etc. The only way to properly release a salmon and give it any chance of survival is to NOT net it and NOT touch it. Use a pliers to grab the hooks and twist it out, without touching the skin. This is impractical with any fish over a few pounds (too hard to lift). Salmon live 4 years, spawn once, then die unlike other species. Spawning in most rivers is not effective, except in a few pristine rivers in Northern Michigan. Stocking makes up the vast majority of fish. I would think the fish could be donated or given away, but catch and release is not feasible for salmon, even with livewells.

Thanks RLK, I was hoping there someone out there that knew about salmon as well.

RKL
I agree that Salmon are not Bass.

Bass have a chance to live on after being caught.

Again my question…… why is it no big deal to kill a bunch of Salmon which are sure to die and a huge new story when 75% of a tournement catch are given the oppurtunity to live to spawn or be caught again and survive to do so?

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why is it no big deal to kill a bunch of Salmon which are sure to die and a huge new story when 75% of a tournement catch are given the oppurtunity to live to spawn or be caught again and survive to do so?

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Because they’re sure to die anyway. Because they’re basically seen as food, and until they are eaten they’re entertainment. Because people in the area aren’t as concerned about salmon as they are bass. Because it was a planned catch and kill tourney. It’s not newsworthy.

I went back and looked at your original post again, for about the 5th time. You basically reported that there was a catch-n-kill salmon tourney. That’s not really worth any media attention. Unless I’m missing something…

There is a mojor difference between salmon fishing and bass fishing. Besides the simple fact that very few people enjoy sitting down to a plate full of bass, and jump at the chance to try Salmon. Bass are a much hardier fish which can survive being caught, placed in a live-well, and being then released. YEs walleye’s and northerns can do the same, but in the last 15 years of salmon fishing, I have not had one survive even 5 minutes in the live-well. i am able to release a small salmon (.5 – 1.5 years old) because it doesn’t fight as hard and doesn’t tire as much. Due to the depths at which most salmon are taken from, and the cold water they require to survive (40-55) it makes it almost impossible. And last but not least, the salmon fishery is almost exclusivly a give and take fishery. There is almost no natural reproduction in the wisconsin tributaries, thus all of the salmon in the lake came from the DNR egg collection facility, which are then stocked in the lake for the recreational fisherman. Let me know if you ever want to go out sometime, and I’ll show you first had why I feel so strongly about one of the greatest fisheries in the North America.

Rob, It looks like a blast. One of our staffers just got back from a salmon trip and had a great time. Here’s the report.

Mr. rod,

I have done Salmon fishing both on Lake Michigan and the Pacific Northwest. It was entertaining.

I have no problem with you doing it. I have no problem with you having catch and kill tournements. I have no problem with helping to pay for the stocking that is necessary for you to have these fishing adventures.

I just want somebody to explain why when Bass fishermen release fish and some die it becomes a major news event. La Crosse had a 79% survival rate of spawning age fish because they were released. Wouldn’t you just kill to be able to release those three year old fish knowing that you might see them next year as 4 year olds? Those 79% will have babies that will more than make up for the loss of the 21%. The Bass fishery,unlike the walleye,salmon, pike, muskey and perch fishery is thriving without any stocking. Why are we held to a different standard.

Do you think Bass fishermen should be?

Wade,

I got your attention with the catch and kill thing. Here in Wisconsin the whole make up of fishing tournements from salmon derbies to bass tourneys to bar sponsered ice fishing jambories has been jepordised by a recent disicion to not allow the legislater mandated rewrite of the state laws regulating tournament fishing to be sent to the legislature for review.

The future of all these events is in jeopordy. It may look stupid from outside Wisconsin but unless the Salmon, Walleye, Catfish, Bass Ice and open water fishermen pay attention we may loose a lot of ground.

In the past they have taken after the Walleye guys, With La Crosse it’s the Bass Guys turn. One PETA freak with a camera can make the salmon folks next.

Our fish are diferent but we share a desire for competion.
We might want to agree on that and get a united front going to protect our rights to do that.

This is kind of a baffling subject and I think some people are misinterpreting what Dan is trying to say. The bottom line is why the black eye for tournament bass fishing (which does have mortality, especially in the summer when fish are already stressed)when there are far more expensive fish being killed without a chance of survival? I agree, salmon fishing is great and is an awesome way to feed yourself for a week, the point is not that salmon (or walleye, crappie, catfish,etc) taste better than bass or cant survive to fight again, even if immediately released. The point is why are bass fishermen targeted as killers and bass tourneys as a wanton waste of resources when that resource is a) self sustaining b) very low cost due to stocking,etc c) much more accessable to the average “joe” than salmon and d) in a tournament maybe 20% mortality.

The point (I think Dan is trying to make-correct me if im wrong) is that we are all targets of special interest groups like PETA but it seems as though bass are targeted the hardest. Maybe its because bass tourneys actually try to and claim to be catch and release, then when fish die it is seen as abuse? The other tourneys make no bones about it- fish will be cleaned and killed.

Obviously from my rambling i am confused as well but the money brought into an area can hopefully fund more research so we all can continue to enjoy what we do.

I cannot disagree with your confusion, brovarny, it is frustrating. At my place of employment, folks asked me about the report, as they knw the media “blows things out out proportion” and asked for the other side. Once they understood, they simply were okay with what happened and found themselves confused by the media’s interpretation and the DNR’s methodolgy.

Now, to address your questiohn directly, perhaps the reasons are simply superfical. Could it simply be that most bass tournaments are visible to the “average” angler/citizen because our boats are “flashy” and look like race cars for the water and we take over a landing when we have tournies? As well, we don’t “putt” out to open water and then run, rather we “race” to our locations? I think many people beleive our methods are unnecassary and, quite honestly, are likely a bit jealous of the comraderie of bass fisherman, as we do represent a “clique.”

Just “food” for thought.

It is my opinion that Tourney anglers get the “negative attention” because of what REel Guy said…”Flashy boats racing to the fishing grounds and taking up the boat landing space”.

In addition, I believe it is the fact that there are organized bass clubs/organizations. By being organized, it is an easier target.. (kinda like a school of bass…easier to target a school than one here and there). With the recent explosion of Televised tournaments, it is making “joe public” more aware that tournies exist, thus making a larger target. Anglers want the positive publicity to educate youth and grow and the sport when there are times (like the kill) it is actually a couple steps back.

AS far as your spin on the 79% release rate….The public has heard Catch and Release by bass guys for 30 years. When CPR is pounded in their head that is what they expect…CPR. When there is a major kill like the Stren/Everstart, that is the media/public’s opportunity to call the anglers/hosts out on CPR. That is their opportunity to say…”why don’t you practice what you preach?” This is why it got the press it did.

The argument has also been made…”look at the money it brings to the local economy”. WEll, The press/public is saying is all that money worth the stress on the resource?

Maybe the kill would have been “accepted” if the anglers took another 4 days off work to go around and collect the floaters themselves ((taking responsibility for their actions–Maybe this is another view of the media…ANglers are using the resource for personal monetary gain (associated with the tourney winnings) without any respect/responsibility?))