Fish Kill After Stren Event

Krisko-

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I know I couldn’t keep anything alive in my live well and I had the pump on the whole time to circulate water.

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Circulate alone will not keep fish alive…

I have only lost one fish EVER in a tournament and I still feel bad about that. That was when I was running a 1995 Skeeter MANY years ago and didn’t know about how to keep fish healthy on hot day. I believe if you keep the water cool (ice), fresh (pump-out then refill often), and moving (re-circulate on) bass held in a livewell will remain healthy and swim off to be caught again.

Maybe you should clarify, were you talking about bass?

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Circulate alone will not keep fish alive…

I have only lost one fish EVER in a tournament and I still feel bad about that. That was when I was running a 1995 Skeeter MANY years ago and didn’t know about how to keep fish healthy on hot day. I believe if you keep the water cool (ice), fresh (pump-out then refill often), and moving (re-circulate on) bass held in a livewell will remain healthy and swim off to be caught again.

Maybe you should clarify, were you talking about bass?

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I actually had only one bass and a few gills. I had cool water in it and had circulation pump on . I know I talked to several other guys that day and most of their fish in the livewells dead. I don’t know what they were doing at all and they had all walleyes and gills….
Is all I’m saying it isn’t good for a fish to be banged around in a livewell on a hot summer’s day. It may look alive and well…but you know it is very stressed out.

Check out the attachment.

Abstracts from peer reviewed scientific literature,

6 fish take home limit???

MossBoss- yes, all of them.
SC

I think a quick fix to these fish-kills…(that only happen in LaCrosse)would be to stop releasing them in the black river, there’s no flow, no cover, and no oxygen. Take them to Lake Onalaska, Goose Island anywhere with natural cover and current. These guys are idiots thinking the black river can support 3000 fish that just came from current and weeds. The black is always like 6-7 degrees warmer than the Mississip. It was hot during the PdC BFL and i haven’t seen hundreds of dead bass floating around here. Stop releasing them into the black it’s not that far of a drive to the channel from clinton.

I like the idea of two weigh-ins, smaller limits, or shorter tourney boundaries. I hope that at least some problem-solving comes out of this.

Speaking of assumptions, I’m curious why many people have this underlying anger with the DNR. Seriously, is there not a decent number of people who seem peeved by the DNR no matter what happens, as though their sole purpose is to suppress outdoorsmen?

Also, in response to the earlier posts about the penned fish (brought up by Cade, et. al.)…I also questioned the penning technique and took the tournament side last year when they did this. However, as James has clearly explained, blaming the penning is weak. Though James pretty much refuted this completely, I would also add that, as far as we know from the article, none of the control group (fish that were also penned) died. Therefore, though other factors are at work (like the inherent higher stress levels of the tourney fish), I believe we have at least basic evidence that penning is not skewing the study.

If it looks like dog crap and smells like dog crap, it’s probably dog crap. To me, it’s very clear that tournaments in hot weather are causing some problems. We should move on to figure out how to solve them, whether through changed rules, increased info on how to hold the fish, banning mid-summer tourneys, whatever. Dialogue is a starting point.

G-Love,

There has always been a long-standing love-hate relationship between Outdoorsman and the DNR….Numerous things i’m sure, but that’s always been there.

James did a nice bit explaining the whole pen deal. The dead fish they were finding didn’t come from the Pens….

HOWEVER, there were penned fish that died as well. This is an email from Pat S.(WI-DNR) from just a few days earlier than when the article was written.

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Preliminary(initial) report from the LaCrosse delayed mortality study done at the Stren Series event:

I just heard from Craig Williamson (UWSP) and Ron Benjamin (WDNR La Crosse) and this is the information collected thus far:

The final group of fish (100 bass from Thursday weigh-in) was released yesterday. I do not have the tournament results in hand (initial mortality) but know that a lot of bass were caught and weighed (~3,000).

Ten of 100 reference bass died (10%) in the pens. Sixty-two out of 212 (28%) tournament bass died in the pens.

I do not have those broken out by species yet. I believe that a sample of bass was again taken to the fish health center for LMBV testing (will talk to Craig again to be certain). Delayed mortality ~ 18%

In addition to the net pens, most of the released bass were marked with a tail punch (using a paper punch) and released by the FLW pontoon and the Bass Taxi.

The fish were released in the Black River upstream from Clinton Street and some near the railroad bridge downstream. Fish were released in these locations last year as well. WDNR and UWSP crews have been patrolling those areas each day and have found approximately 400 (unofficial number) dead bass with tail punches. They are going to look again today. If we assume that 2,800 (just a guess – will have a final tally of tail punched fish) were tail punched then released and 400 died, that’s about 14% or so.

These results are right in line with the vast literature out there on bass tournament delayed mortality (~20 – 25%, according to Hal Schramm).

This was again a warm weather and warm water tournament, but water temps were not as warm as last year’s August Everstart event on the Mississippi.

That’s what I know so far. Any new developments will be shared with you.

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We really won’t know anything concrete until all the numbers come in and we see the results from the LMBV testing…..but just sharing info for now.

I’m still curious if the Black River can handle that kind of fish release????

JUST MY .02, I THINK THAT THE BLACK RIVER CAN HANDLE THIS NUMBER OF BASS BECAUSE IT HAS A GOOD POPULATION OF FISH IN IT ALL READY. BUT I GUESS IT IS TO CLOSE TO THE LAUNCH FOR TOURNAMENT GUYS TO FISH IT.I CAN CATCH MY LIMIT OF BASS (BOTH LM AND SM) PRETTY MUCH ANY TIME ON THAT SECTION.

2) EVERYONE KEEPS TALKING ABOUT STRESS OF THE FISH AND FROM WHAT I HEARD MOST OF THESE FISH WERE CAUGHT IN THE MORNING (BEFORE 8 AM ) AND THEN THEY WENT CULLING FOR THE REST OF THE DAY. 5 FISH PER PERSON IN A LIVEWELL (SMALL COMPARTMENT) BEING BOUNCED AROUND FOR 6 HRS WHILE THE BOATS ARE FLYING FROM SPOT TO SPOT = STRESS, AND THAT IS GREAT THAT YOU HAVE ICE FOR THESE FISH BUT FROM WARM WATER TO COLD WATER TO WARM WATER OVER AND OVER = STRESS.

THE WAY I SIT IS TO REDUCE THE LIMIT OR A RECORD AND RELEASE TOURNEY,(I KNOW A RECORD AND RELEASE TOURNEY WOULD HAVE NO PICTURES OF HOLDING THE FISH FOR THE PRESS) I WILL PUT MY NAME IN THE BE A WITNESS/RECORDER FOR THE TOURNEYS NO PROBLEM.

Like Eric, I dont’ feel comfortable in having a rock solid opinion yet, because there isn’t enough info out. From Slop’s post, it sounds like there is more to come and that should be helpful. I would to point out some thoughts I’ve had thus far though.

Last Monday in our Federation tournament I had 19.05 lbs of fish and my draw partner had 19.30 lbs. That’s over 38 lbs of fish in one livewell. Tournament time was 10 hours (which is something we will discuss in our next meeting and likely NOT do again in a summer tourney). Ice and Bass Medics through out the day with continually recirc and fresh water (switched one to the other when needed) and all 38+ lbs of our fish swam away with out problem at the end of the day. We had 1 boat go down that weighed in early, but all in all out of 105 total fish weighed in last Monday, only 1 fish died (small 1 lb fish). It took some WORK to keep those fish healthy by all, but all in all we were succesful.

Now, this was on a LAKE, not a RIVER. How different is that, I’m not 100% sure. But one thing that does concern me is what others mentioned above. Where the fish were released. In a lake you can take fish back to deeper water and the habitat is basically the same across the board. Most deep water has weeds and it’s generally the same. I’m unfamiliar with Pool 8 / 9, but it sure sounds like the habitat of where the fish were released was much different that where the majority of the fish “live” this time of year. (I said majority, not all) I think that should be a high concern in how to fix this.

Another thing I’d mentioned is coming from the southern midwest, there are MANY tournaments similar to this size held in the summer on resevoirs. Water temps in the mid 80’s to lower 90’s at times. Rarely do you hear of mortalities this high. Again, this is comparing a lake to a river, so it’s hard to compare 1 x 1. But it does make me belive that there is SOME factor in all of this.

Call me an optimist, but I try to think that the DNR / government is taking the approach of the betterment of fishing, and not “how can we make bass tournaments look bad”. I could be grossly wrong, but I’ve always been a positive thinker and will continue to be on this until something blatantely obvious slaps me in the face.

As far as taggin fish and penning them up, maybe it’s not the greatest way to do things and hopefully they (DNR) will continue to work on ways to improve that. However research is needed in order to help us resolve problems. If the research is broken, fix it, but we have to have some way to gather statistics to improve things.

High mortality rates will always give us a black eye. We should always be willing to help in a positive way. If things “don’t look right”, sure we have the right to complain, but let’s also look at how we can help. Keep in mind that we have up and coming youngsters out there and we want them to be positive about our sport and not be quick to judge.

Thanks for listening.
Fluker

Looks like the story made Bassfan:

http://www.bassfan.com/docktalk.asp?archive=c

Wisconsin fish die-off 7/24/2006
The La Crosse (Wis.) Tribune reported recently that the state’s Department of Natural Resources collected 582 dead bass following the Mississippi River Midwestern Stren, held July 12-15 out of Onalaska. The vast majority of those fish had clipped tail fins, which signified they were caught and released during the tournament.

Following a high mortality rate in the wake of last year’s event, the DNR clipped fins this year as part of a study to attempt to determine the cause.

JUST A COUPLE MORE POINTS I WOULD LIKE TO THROW OUT FOR THOUGHT.

1)YOU SAY MOST BASS ARE FOUND IN CURRENT, WELL I THINK THAT THIS IS NOT BECAUSE THIS IS THE ONLY PLACE THAT FISH CAN LIVE BECAUSE OF TEMPS AND OXYGEN. IT’S BECAUSE THAT IS WHERE THE FORAGE IS.AND YOU CAN FIND FISH IN SLACK WATER AREAS NOW ALSO.

2) THE BLACK RIVER PORTION ALSO HAS CURRENT IN IT AND ALSO HAS QUITE A BIT OF 20 FT PLUS WATER IN IT (DREDGE HOLES) AND AS WAS MENTIONED EARLIER THERE IS ALSO A POPULATION OF WALLEYES,NORTHERN AND MANY TYPES OF PANFISH IN IT SO THIS WATER CAN’T BE ALL BAD.

3) SOMEONE MENTIONED THAT IN A LOCAL TOURNEY THEY HAD WITH THE SAME CONDITIONS ALL SWAM OFF OK. BUT YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO THOSE FISH AFTER THEY SWAM AWAY, THESE DEAD BASS ARE BEING PICKED UP DAYS AFTER RELEASE.

4)I ALSO SAW SOME DNR PENS BETWEEN PETTIBONE AND THE EAST CHANNEL (MAIN CHANNEL) SO I THINK THE PENS BY THE RR BRIDGE ARE NOT THE ONLY LOCATIONS THESE BASS WERE BEING KEEP?
P.S. MANY MANY PEOPLE FISH PANFISH AROUND THE RR BRIDGE SO THERE IS FORAGE AROUND THAT AREA.SO I THINK THE POINT OF THE BLACK RIVER AND PENS BEING IN THAT LOCATION IS SORT OF MUTE.

NOT TRYING TO RUFF ANY FEATHERS HERE BUT, THINGS HAVE TO FIGURED OUT TO KEEP THIS AREA THE GREAT FISHERY IT IS.

THANKS FOR LISTENING

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1)YOU SAY MOST BASS ARE FOUND IN CURRENT

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I said a majority of the bass CAUGHT in the tournament came around current. With the very low water levels and high temps, current becomes a big factor b/c it can provide a fresh supply of oxygen, cooler water, AND baitfish.

Black river current is MINIMAL in comparison to the main river.

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MANY MANY PEOPLE FISH PANFISH AROUND THE RR BRIDGE SO THERE IS FORAGE AROUND THAT AREA.SO I THINK THE POINT OF THE BLACK RIVER AND PENS BEING IN THAT LOCATION IS SORT OF MUTE

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Forage AROUND pens doesn’t do bass any good when they can’t get to them.

I agree, lots of factor to discuss….I still question if the Black river has the carrying capacity to hold an extra 3000 fish.

Glossary Term. carrying capacity (animals) The maximum average number of animals that can be sustained on a long-term basis in a given area. It can vary throughout the year and from year to year depending on conditions within the habitat

This applies under water as well. Just trying to provoke thought as well.

What always amazes me is that tournament guys think that just because all their bass were alive and swam off after weigh in…..that none of their bass died.

They call it delayed mortality for a reason! They swim away….looking fine…..and then die!

Tournaments kill bass. Always have and always will.Thats just the way it is. Every tournament angler has killed his share of bass. Some more than others. Some have better livewells……some just don’t catch as many fish!

SLOP
I AGREE WITH YOUR RESPONSES
BUT I HAVE A COUPLE MORE.
1 )BASS RELEASED IN A CERTAIN AREA DO NOT ALL WAYS STAY THERE.
2) BASS ARE PROBABLY THE MOST WARM WATER FISH WE HAVE I DONT KNOW FOR SURE BUT MOST BASS FOR ME HAVE BEEN CAUGHT IN 4 FT OR LESS (VERY WARM WATER).
3) AS FOR THE PENS I DO AGREE THAT THEY DO HINDER THE FISHES MOVMENTS AND WOULD LIKE TO SEE LESS BASS PER SF OF CAGE BUT ALOT OF FORAGE IS ALSO ATTRACTED TO STRUCTRES, CRIBS, DOCKS & ECT WHICH COULD BE A PEN. NO EXPERT BY ANY MEANS BUT A THOUGHT ?

everybody keeps saying that these fish are being released in their “natural habbitat” with current, ect. But none of those fish were caught north of clinton anyway so why are they putting them there? Their natural habbitat would be the mississippi river. there is deffinitely a difference. i don’t understand why they put them on the blackriver, i mean it doesn’t make sense. Do they want them to die to make tournaments look bad or what? Garvi, those pens you saw by pettibone are not the dnr pens. The usgs is doing something on the river and i have seen those all over the place. They aren’t involved with the tournament.

Talking about pens, does anyone know for sure what all the pens are for that are as far south as a couple of miles south of Brownsville?

not gonna get pms for stating my opinion

Exactly WF There is a large population of bass on that small section of the Black River. The fish once released are free to make the short swim to the Miss. there is plenty of current and cooler water for these fish to go to recuperate. My opinion is the fish were simply stressed from the high ambient and water temps the days of the tourney. I find it hard to believe the DNR would purposely release these fish in an attempt to kill them and then turn it around to make it look like the tournies are a bad thing. Let’s try and be realistic on our opinions. The bashing is based more on emotions than facts and that is going to get us nowhere. When the results of the study are in front of us, then maybe we can form a relistic opinion based on facts. I do agree that it is a tragedy to lose that many adult bass in a short time, but Mother Nature has ways to mend herself

oh i’m sorry i guess i didn’t know you could go up there for the mississippi tournament. I saw signs that said offlimits around the bridge and stuff but i guess that just means you can’t fish at the weigh in sights. Hm..sorry. I still don’t believe the the blackriver is the place for 3000+ bass when only a small (very small) percentage actually fished up there. the fish may be free to swim down from up there but when they are stressed they may not be able to move that far and with the black being warmer than the mississippi and the water in the livewells/weigh in sites, maybe the blackriver isn’t the best place. I know from experience with aquarium fish and a few gills that i have put in aquariums. Fish do not do well when stressed and also do not do well at all when there is an abrupt change in the temperature. I do know that there wouldn’t be any of these dead fish without the tournament, but i think that the way we are going about handling the fish after the tournament makes the situation worse than it has to be.

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Cade-I wholeheartedly agree that handling the fish excessively had more of an impact than anything else. High temps are hard on animals, fish, and people. I strongly believe that will prove to be the root cause of the dead fish. The big bass tournies do everything in their power to ensure that the fish are well taken care of from the boat to the release tank. Also, if by some chance there is a virus among some of these fish, putting diseased fish with clean fish will spread it very quick. Also, there is no bio-security measures taken between each days events with the release tanks. Of course the disease issue is all speculation on my part at this time. I would like to see bio-security measures taken with all equipment used from the livewell to the release tank everyday at every tourney.

well Guys Cade has an excellent point.

I went to 9 both days, almost 100 boats locked down each day. For all the math wizzards out there…that is 50% or half. There was a bunch of money won off of 9. I heard there was 30 or so that locked to 7…another 15% that had better fish than were on 8. That leaves 35% of the field to pool 8 which is LONG, boats disapear. I had the good fourtune of being boat 181 the second day but ended up going out 195 cause I didnt hear the loudspeaker…Gues how many boat I saw start in the black? I saw 4, this could mean 40 fish, which I doubt. Give another 50 to guys who went there later in the day…we will round up and say 100 fish were caught out of there each day. At best your looking at 10% of the fish weighed being caught in the black. Rip me for my numbers but if you use common sense you will realize that this many fish of that size cannot live there. I dont think anyone thought about the size of fish being released. Kinda mirrors what the DNR is doing by putting them in the small cages if you ask me.

Joe Hall

the dnr put them in the black so they could pick them up easier after they died rather then putting them in the missisippi were it would be harder to find and pick them up. Thats the reason they put them in the black

All 3000 were not released right in the Black River. About half were released above and the others were released at the railroad bridge. From the railroad bridge, this Miss. is what, 200 yards, not counting several different sloughs they could travel down or just go into the deeper water nearby?
Personally, I think it is time we as fisherman and women take responsibility for our actions. This using the DNR as a scapegoat is insane and just pointing fingers. All we hear is how the tourney angler does this, that, and the other to protect our resources. 2 years in a row of large numbers of dead fish directly following a high profile tourney during extreme heat is setting a pattern. Who is really at fault? Should we have to personally take every fish back to the exact spot where it was caught so it can be back in its comfort area? Don’t laugh, that was suggested at a tourney a few years ago

thats exactly what i mean. Its absolutely rediculous. If they put them in the miss, they wouldn’t need to worry, i don’t think nearly that many would have died. Its not that its the black river that sucks its just that thats not where they were caught out of. A sudden change in atmosphere or habbitat can be bad for a fish. An example for me would be that i have astmah. If i go to a smoking resturant, i start to cough. I leave and i feel much better. if you stay around long enough you get used to it. But fish aren’t strong enough to live in a change of conditions. Especially after all the stress of the livewells. I think its sad that we have to risk fish’s lives for a studyu and more convenience to the people picking them up. Why would it be hard if they released them on the main river? There aren’t many sloughs to float into from the dam all the way to about 7th street landing. If that many died they could still find and pick them up. I don’t know. Theres a million things that went wrong but a million that have solutions. I don’t know what else to tell ya.

There is obviously two sides forming on this debate. To those of you who believe that the fish died from tournament stress and related causes, tell me why we don’t see these numbers of dead fish floating around after every other tournament up and down this river, or any where else for that point. For examples say Lake Minnetonka, that holds some pretty large tournaments. Where do all these delayed mortality fish float up?? Cause I would bet that if anything of that sort was noticed the lake commitee would be all over it and push more to ban tournaments. Tell me why there isn’t news stories on all the dead fish that floated up here or there after the last bass tournament. I know that the Stren is of the largest magnitude for around here so the numbers of dead fish in the “rest” of the tournaments would obviously be smaller and less noticeable, but still notable. Thats what I am having a problem with.
For the DNR to conduct these studies they are handling and hauling these fish more than if in a tournament without a study. And most, but not all the tournaments I fish on the river, the fish are bagged, weighed, and released immediatly into the main channel or at the least a good “fast” back channel. (Unless in the spring)
At this point my opinion is that the extra handling and poor release/study site has a fairly large factor in the delayed mortality numbers. I do not believe for one second that all bass caught and released in these tournaments will live but I do believe that these preliminary numbers are skewed due to as mentioned above.
As James pointed out, unfortunately none of what I or others in defense of tournaments has any affect on those that dislike tournaments for whatever reason. What these findings point out is only ammunition for the tournament haters. Even if it is a 5% delayed mortality the tournament haters would jump all over it. Its an excuse. But don’t get me wrong, I as I’m sure many others will do anything in our power to keep our fish healthy so they can swim away. Point being, not only do I care about the lively hood of tournament fishing, I care about these fish, probably more than the next guy.

heres a link to last years fish kill report from the same tournament. It’s interesting to see mine and other peoples points and opinions one year ago. Interestingly, last year there were only 2 thousand some odd fish and over 600 bass killed. This year there were over 3 thousand and only 532 fish killed. Hey at least we made an improvement right?

Everstart Fish Kill (2005)

What are you going to do go to every little hole that a fisherman pulled a fish out of and release that fish there. lets get realistic. The dnr released them in a place that they could moniter how many bass died Wats said it perfectley quite putting blame on other people the conditions and stress killed those fish not the dnr.

Read into it more Bassking27. Our point is to release the fish into a more oxygenated/summer time haunt. Sure the Black can support some fish, but maybe it can’t support fish that had come off a high current sand flat with thousands of minnows pushed in behind it. Think about it guys.