The science of Smallmouth.

I read a very interesting article in In-Fisherman February
2003. called “The Science of Smallmouth”. It has some very interesting,(disturbing), studies and info on the damage that can be done to the northern Smallmouth population when fished at the wrong times. Not just the spawn. Might be a good read for those interested.

Mountain Man,

I saw the article and have thought the same thing for years for both smallmouth and largemouth – especially on the river where people are locking through multiple pools.

Let’s think about changing virtually ALL tournaments into a catch and immediate release format. This would be one way to get around the “no cull” rules that people hate. Since no length or bag limits apply to released fish, a format like TOTAL WEIGHT CAUGHT tournaments where all the bass you catch count toward your total would be a possibility in addition to a return to a “culled” limit of your 5 biggest fish.

As to verifying weights, each boat/angler could be required to carry a camera with a date and time stamp feature, and there are scales with memory features that store the weights for up to 10 fish, etc.

I know this would be a change, but we don’t need to diminish the quality of our fishery just so we can carry around a bag full of fish at a weigh-in.

Our bass clubdown here on pool19 is all bump and dump.We draw for partners on Thursday before and determine the winner by inches. We had no trouble with honesty till last year and have since dealt with him. Both anglers must verify the length and the fish is released on the spot. It is much better for the bass in the summer . The Iowa Federation also use to fish bump and dump but has gone back to weigh tournies now. We do the same with walleyes in the winter.

I have not read the article and would enjoy reading a copy of someone could post it.
Next shooting from the hip….I can appreciate all your concerns as the media is trying to use mortality rates in lakes to that of rivers and vice versa. The studies I have read have involved taking tournament fish in lakes and placing them into a controlled setting all together. By doing this they are not allowing the fish to spread out, limiting the available forage, not controlling available DO levels in this area and not really doing a valid study. I am sure you have all heard my rant about the “Grant Lee” type studies that all to commonly point towards a special interest group. One way that I would be in favor of tracking these mortality rates is to do a fairly large telemetry study and monitor any fish that are weighed in during any tournaments and then the subsequent results especially in the 3-7 day range. I understand biology very well and have seen how resilient life is and how delicate all at the same time. I would assume that the mortality rates of fish are directly related to the quality of the handling. I would like to see a direct comparison of different styles of livewells and the other. It has only been in the last couple years that cooling systems and continual fresh water systems have been put in place. I remember a 1988 ranger 364V with duel live wells that I always seemed to have trouble keeping fish alive in. They have the recirculation pump and the fill just filled it while the overflow could not keep up. The pump entered the top and the overflow was on the top. Now I know some DO will mix but it seems to me it was pretty much a waste. I just have a skeptical nature and will not be blindly led to the slaughter.

Food for Thought… (True Story)

A few years ago a company you are all familiar with had this “NEW” product and it was introduced to the public to replace an old favorite. The company marketed the product all over the media to make absolutely sure every since person who enjoyed there product was aware of the “New and Improved” offering. Well this was exciting and generated sales for a short time. In the transition they removed the old favorite completely from the shelves so that the availability to get the old product was almost impossible. Well the overwhelming consensus was that the new product was mediocre at best. The public united under a coalition that was unparalleled in any other retail product. The Company responded with the “We have listened to our customers” marketing campaign and returned the old product calling it “Classic” Well the whole campaign was a wonderful trick of smoke and mirrors to allow them to change the originals formula to save costs longer term.
The company was Coca Cola and the product was Coke. The change was in choice of sweeteners which changed the taste enough that they new the public would revolt. This marketing campaign changed the minds of Americans and renewed our loyalty to there “Classic” product. We were all lead to slaughter including myself.

Now I am supposed to believe that all the woes of fishing are related to Tournament anglers.. What about the Meat Eaters that kill 100% of the fish they catch. I do not have the answers but I do know that if you are true to your own and honestly take part in the resource that brings you so much enjoyment we will be doing our best job. Out monies paid to the states need to be used for these studies and independent of any outside influences. No I do not suggest hiring Grand Leach. A DR. Ridgeway is very welcome.
I am sure you have read of fish kills all over and there are 2 typical causes. Pollution and a lack of DO. Call me silly but I am confident if we address the DO aspect of tournament fishing we will be able to better increase mortality rates in bass.

Guys- I have read the article that you are discussing, but kind of picked up on what you are saying. Whether or not their study found out all these “facts”, could you or I present a study ourselves that could prove the opposite. The one good things studies and reach can show is that we need to be aware of everything and to keep an open mind. Jeremy mentioned something about a scale and taking pictures, verifing with your partner. Right or wrong (no disrespect at all), could you see the BFL or Bassmasters doing that. I think that would hurt the Tourney aspect of it. And many people whether locals or tree huggers would like to see us not fish at all. From my limited experience as a tournament fisherman, I have seen very few fish that came in dead to the weigh-in. Now once the fish are treated and released can anyone really say what will happen? As for my wishful thinking, I would hope I can catch that fish again another day. I guess I’d like to debate for the positives of fishing…even if I’m wrong…Just love the outdoors to much to be spoiled by reports……..

Just to clarify, I am not in favor of using the honor system and scales in the boat. I already have enough issues trusting people. Lmao. I think you are mistaken me for Bassn Dan. That’s ok though.
The Bass Master classic paper weigh-ins.. And his this plain white piece of paper says 23lbs.. Not to use the calculator to verify totals….. and the winner is.. Its already losing its excitement for me.. –grin-\
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As for the mortality rates. The reposts I have read an in particularly the one I am referencing is a study done of a large number of bass that were placed in a large netted off area in the lake. They measured the mortality rates each day and they seemed to show that mortality was greatly increased in the 3-6 day range. Day 1 and 2 were minimal…
Jc

I remember scanning the article when i got it, but I don’t think I ever went back and read in in depth. Guess I have to.

Was part of the issue being that moving fish away from their habitat at certain times significantly lessened spawning success? If so, I think there may be some truthin that idea. In fact, as far as Miss. River tournies go, I wonder if the transport of fish from Pool to Pool (or even across multiple pools) may in fact be as big (or even bigger) of an issue than immediate mortality/survival.

Many studies have shown river bass (largemouth and smallmouth) can and will migrate many miles to and from spawning, wintering, and “summer” living sites. Some have also shown bass follow these same routes, and return to the same places, year after year. Perhaps genetically programmed. Now I have never been able to get a bass to tell me if he can find his way back to Pool 9 from Pool 8, but one has to wonder if they ever would find their way back. Let’s assume for a second that these fish never do find their way back to their home territory. Do they just assimilate to the new pool, and find new wintering and spawning grounds? Or do they just become wanderers, and never really become productive spawners again? If the worst case scenario (that they are essentially “non-spawners”), this could have a significant impact on populations.

I have no idea what the answer is to the issues I posed, but it is something to think about.

Is it spring yet?

I understand exactly what you are saying however in another study conducted they swam different baits through a group of fish. They concluded that only a percentage and a small percentage at that were “Biters” and that the majority did not bite reputedly if at all. They suggested that some fish are genetically programmed. I think that they are like the company I work for, a few idiots here but for the most part we are fairly intelligent.
I hope this makes you feel a little better.
Jc

I have not read the article in question and after all these replies and re-replies I have come to the conclusion that I have a headache. I know this will cause an uproar among the bassin’ community and maybe I am trying to stir the pot here but I wish there was a season for bass here on the river system. The season I am looking for is one that does not allow the transportation of fish until after the spawn. I’ve read all the posts and replies on these subjects the last few days and have tried to steer clear of this subject until now. Everybody has a stand on this subject and I doubt that they are all consistent. My view is to look out for the well-being of the fisherie. I want to be able to show my daughter how to catch big numbers of bass, not tell stories of how there used to be big numbers of bass. o.k. I’m off my soapbox.

“I’ve come here to catch bass and chew bubblegum, sadly I am all out of bubblegum.”

BF

Blue Fleck,
You are always so poised and non confrontational. Just like myself (rotflmao) I appreciate your convictions. You words speak decades of experiences in such few years. I see that you subscribe to caution. After reading your post I think I need to lobby the powers that be to get me the scientific information I need to make a fair and heart felt decision. I will work on this. In the meantime I suggest we hold true to our convictions and ensure at the end of the day that we will have a good nights rest. I too have a young child and would be saddened to be the story teller of good times gone by.

For those who haven’t read this article, one of the key points is that taking smallmouth (and in my opinion, largemouth) away from their wintering areas in fall, could cause those fish not to survive the winter, or to not be successful spawners in spring. (Fall is a crucial time for fish to store fat reserves for the winter and if those fish spend their time and energy trying to return to their wintering grounds instead of feeding, they may not survive the winter or spawn successfully come spring.)

No, I do NOT think that BASS and the other elite tours should adopt a catch and release honor system instead of a weigh-in, but I do think that club tournaments and “Wednesday night” type tournaments should. One of the differences being that BASS visits a particular water at most once a year, while local club anglers often have weekly tournaments on their home waters.

I’m not trying to stir up anti-tournament sentiments, I’m simply stating that in the context of this article, catch and immediate release tournaments make sense and that this simple change could well improve the quality of fishing for everyone.

One final point. Fish live where they do because they are successful living there. Taking fish miles from their home area to a weigh-in site at any time of the year cannot be in the best interest of the fishery.

Geez Louise,

I think you should all read the article,as to posting it I don’t believe it is online, and I’m not gonna type 10 pages,(scanner causes fatal error whenever it is plugged in). This is an article about Smallmouth Bass and when and how they might be most affected by fishing at certain times of the year. I have no idea why this turned into a Tourney Issue. I fish almost everday and I guarantee I can do a ton more damage than five tourneys and that was why I was interested and thought it had value as an issue. Sorry the debate got started ??? Hey wait a second that’s kind of my job!!!

Anyway again as in the past you guys had your debate without name calling or personal bashing.

Hey , Its probably my fault . I agree on a larger scale with larger cash prizes it would not work. ( Bump and Dump) I know if you do not know everyone well enough it would be hard to trust the results.I can’t hear the roar of the crowd when a pro pulls out his card and waves it above his head.

Mt Man: Just wanted to say that no matter how any of us took the context of the meaning behind your thread..and whether or not we understand what was trying to be said that we all are just want to get back on the water and catch some of those smallies and LM. I didn’t feel that any one was trying to demean anything that was said. Just like I’m doing, and that putting are two cents in. As for someone like me that lives 3 hrs aways from the river, we love to hear from you guys (and ladies) who fish it most daily. If I respond to anything on here its due to my tournament experience. (Only time my wife lets me go…) . The one thing I do hope or not..is that no matter how many studies that someone takes or has, I hope that we as humans really never figure it out. Would take all the fun out of catching. But its always great to hear how others fish and what they think about different things. So keep up the good work… And keep the threads and polls and what ever coming….Otherwise I have to find some other website to read at work……lol….One thing I don’t have to worry about is my boss reading this……….Doug

JC:

I would like to read that study sometime. Seems difficult to me to design a study that can measure a fish’s reaction to all types of baits, in all types of conditions. I am interested in their methodology.

Nope DHNitro no problems with anyone. Like I said everybody stated their opinions in a professional manner and with no name calling or the like ,the exact opposite of lots of other internet sites. By the way Spinner Dave lots of serious organizations are looking long and hard at bump and dump,on water weigh-ins,ETC.. and just haven’t figured out how to work it out, so you comments and others like them are definitely valid.