Everstart Fish Kill

  • cade-laufenberg
    Winona,MN/La Crosse, WI
    Posts: 3667
    #1215497

    In yesterdays paper there was an article about how the everstart fishing tournament effected the mortality rate of bass.
    quoted from The La Crosse Tribune: “at least 632 largemouth and smallmouth bass of 2,096 fish caught by tournament anglers died during a delayed mortality study. Another 34 bass brought in to be weighed were dead.And 99 reference bass out of 132 collected by capturing fish using electro fishing for the delayed mortality study, also died. Russ Wilson, a Wisconsin conservation warden also said that 39 dead bass were reported along shore in what Wilson described as near he primary release site from the tournament. *within individual pens,largemouth bass delayed mortality ranged from 97 percent to 44 percent per pen. Smallmouth bass delayed mortality ranged from 67 percent to 21 percent.*Seven of 26 smallmouth bass and 92 of 106 largemouth bass in the reference part of the studydied for a 75 percent delayed mortality.”

    OK, this article really gets my blood pumping. 632 Bass- AT LEAST that were killed BECAUSE of THIS tournament…just this tournament alone….I know there have been posts about keeping fish alive in the live well, but livewells are not the culprit in this situation. Its the Weigh ins! a fish cant handle all that stress…FLW, and the organizers of these tourneys need to find better ways to weigh in the fish..There is no reason that there should be this many dead bass. I know that the weigh ins are what make these bass tournaments so exciting, but what matters is how the fish are doing after this. Have you ever seen a trout tournament on OLN or espn? they have a judge in each boat and like 30 competetors, and the fish are measured when caught, marked down by the judge, and the fish is released. NO this would not be anything to exciting, but at least the fish will live- Just wondering what your opinion is on this issue…This is where we live- where we fish. And it im sure it is as important to you, the readers as it is to me. Something definitely needs to be done.

    mossboss
    La Crescent, MN
    Posts: 2792
    #379590

    That is some interesting info, but I would like more info on the study parameters.

    Also, could keeping bass in a pen after weighing them also be a stressful situation for the fish?

    Jeremiah Shaver
    La Crosse, WI
    Posts: 4941
    #379591

    Fish,

    I wouldn’t read too much into this study they did. The research group killed like 60-70% of their control group of fish. If they can’t even keep their own fish alive, what makes US think all the fish tested died b/c of the tournament? The fish they brought in weren’t caught and kept in livewells all day, and then weighed in,and they still died.

    There are way too many questions to be asked yet. They kept these fish in small storage pens, Did they have accurate oxygen, were they fed? etc..etc..

    If these numbers were correct, we wouldn’t have any bass left to fish for. Yet we have an excellent fishery each year.

    Once the study group can find a way to keep their own control group of fish alive, then do the study…

    cade-laufenberg
    Winona,MN/La Crosse, WI
    Posts: 3667
    #379592

    Moss-
    I was kind of thinking the same thing when i read it in the paper as well… the paper said that the pens were 12x12x8 floating pens that held about 100 fish per pen. Pen conditions were the same other than encloser as were water conditions where the fish were caught….

    Now they say the conditions are the same…But 100 bass in one confined space seems to me like a stressful situation.

    Steve Root
    South St. Paul, MN
    Posts: 5623
    #379606

    “And 99 reference bass out of 132 collected by capturing fish using electro fishing for the delayed mortality study, also died”.

    75% of Bass collected by elctroshocking die? If that’s true, then the DNR has killed millions of fish over the last 20 years. And if tournaments killed that many fish, why don’t you see reports of dead fish washing up on shore? Something isn’t right here..

    Rootski

    fishingdaskoal
    EauClaire WI
    Posts: 927
    #379607

    You always see the anglers hoisting the fish up very fast and in cases waving them around, which causes broken jaws and such.

    mikem
    SE Minnesota
    Posts: 200
    #379615

    It almost sounds like they put them in stagnant water without shade.

    Jeremiah Shaver
    La Crosse, WI
    Posts: 4941
    #379620

    Quote:


    You always see the anglers hoisting the fish up very fast and in cases waving them around, which causes broken jaws and such


    the breaking of a Bass’s Jaw occurs more when taking a hook out of it’s mouth, rather than hoisting it up. It is encouraged to use tools to help rather than play twister w/a hook.

    Also, not bringing anyone down, but not sure what what this has to do w/the fish study results, I doubt all those fish had broken jaws….

    rgeister
    SW Wisconsin
    Posts: 972
    #379624

    Quote:


    It almost sounds like they put them in stagnant water without shade.


    Yes, I hear the rumors that they did do this, AND kept the fish cribs in the Black River/Clinton Street area… that water is warm, near-nothing cuurent, adn what about feeding opportunities?

    Bottom line, gentlemen, this study might be flawed, but the “General Public” will not see anything but the headlines, and that is BAD NEWS publicity for our sport.

    buckmaster
    Posts: 776
    #379640

    Anyone have this article? Looked at the Lax tribune on the net and couldn’t find anything.

    Thanks

    brovarney
    Posts: 662
    #379645

    I talked with the political director of the Wisconsin Bass Federation who attended the presentation of documentation on the study. He pointed out some interesting things that haven’t come out.

    1 The water where the fish were kept and had a disolved oxegen content that was not conducive to supporting life. They knew this going in to the study. They could have taken steps to supply additional O2 to these fish. If they had provided the same additional O2 to both the 125 fish in the contrel group and the tournement fish it would not have affected the ultimite goal of the study which was to determine the degree of negative affect Tournements have on fish.

    2 The fish were not provided with food for 5 days. When was the last time you didn’t eat for 5 days. Food could have been provided. If they had provided the same food to both the 125 fish in the contrel group and the tournement fish It would not have affected the ultimite goal of the study which was to determine the degree of negative affect Tournements have on fish.

    3 The control group consisted of 125 fish. Somewhere around 4 times that were used in the test group. Why? If a larger sample would provide greater accuracy then why wasn’t the size of the control group increased? The only real result is that the size of the dead fish numbers increased with the size of the study group. This increase in sample size for the caught fish serves only to make the results of the study less viable, comparable and accurate. An even more damaging impact of thgis biological blunder is that there is a inflated number of fish in the Tournement study that are attributed to dieing from stress of tournement handling. The folks like bigfish won’t see the study, it’s flaws, or the deceptive results. They will only see a big fish kill connected with those people in the fancy boats. The 39 fish that were found floating might be a better indicator of what is real. Even if that number was tripled wouldn’t that total be worth the hundereds of thousands of dollors that the event pumped into La Crosse?

    4 The sheets that were handed out at the briefing had no identifying marks or logos as to where the information came from. If you are proud of your work wouldn’t you want to claim credit for it.

    5 Experements are designed around an attempt to prove or disapprove a guess as to impact of an action on what is normally a consistant result. In this case the action was tournement angling and wiegh ins. The result would be the effect on mortality. There were no tests done on the culled fish. This was not a study on the evect of culling fish. It was a study of the effect of tournement fish handling practices and it’s impact on mortality. What ever the study was intended to prove or disprovewas masked in that the fish that were included in the study were ill cared for.

    6 Whether the study was to determine the effect of culling or the effect of tournement fishing and wiegh ins on fish mortallity is an issue but not the real issue. The real issue is why this poorly design study was conducted and the health of the fish was not protected. These fish could have been hauled off to the fish hatchery and placed in ideal conditions and it would not have affected the results if in fact the results were attempting to address the question do tournement fish that have gone through the catching and wieghing of a tournement die as a result of that process. Instead the fish were put in the worse conditions possible and let the strongest survive.

    7 As a result of their week in the studies version of the death camp an interesting thing happened. The tournement fish which were caught, held in livewells, brought up to the scales and wieghed survived at a 9% greater rate than the fish that were supplied as the test group. The icing, chemical treatments, fungacides, antibiotics and airation that tournement anglers are supplying these fish seem to be working.

    THIS ENTIRE STUDY IS BAD SCIENCE!!!!!!!!

    I am sure that the La Crosse paper printed info that was supplied to them. No explaination just alarming numbers and headline making stuff.

    You folks in La Crosse can and should tell them to look for the truth.

    The results of this study are not the truth.

    These results are an opportunity for the La Crosse paper to raise a fuss and help find the truth.

    Who out there in La Crosse is going to step up and make a fuss.

    eronningen
    Rochester, MN
    Posts: 1885
    #379652

    I agree with all your statements. If I lived in the LAX area I would form a group and get to the bottom of this and get some paper time with my thoughts on it. It needs to be straighten out, otherwise at the next round of US Fish and Wildlife meetings they will be using this so called research as ammo!

    Jeremiah Shaver
    La Crosse, WI
    Posts: 4941
    #379653

    I’m on it

    Brovo, call me ASAP!!

    gonefishing
    Lacrosse Wi
    Posts: 495
    #379672

    The first line of that artticle says “Lacrosse we have a problem”. Reading the article it is very confusing as to the tests and the results.
    I’ll make two comments, I saw a bass fisherman at the 7th street landing taking bass out of his livewell and throwing the fish in the water. It would have been a lot better had he released them gently or at least not in front of all these people. He may not have even been in the tournament he left before we got to the dock.
    Second comment how many fish would have died if all the torunament fishermen had taken their limit of five fish home and fileted them?
    Somebody made a reference to the money brought into Lacross, I don’t think we can afford to sacrifice our kids and grandkids future for whatever dollars Lacrosse made on a fishing tourney.
    The resource is there for all of us if you want to tournament fish it’s your right as long as it doesn’t prevent others from exercising the same rights.

    danwi
    westby wi
    Posts: 864
    #379698

    You dont have to live in LaCrosse to write a letter to the news paper.I think every Bass Angler on this board should write a letter.The guys in LaCrosse could even call. Dont let the paper get by with this.

    riverdog
    Posts: 90
    #379699

    I’m not a fisheries biologist, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night…

    This has to be the most worthless, ridiculous study I’ve even seen. Yeah, let’s tank them up in cages for five days and see what happens! Idiots.

    As many of you have already said, if tournaments killed that many fish, the results on the river would not continually be amongst the best of ANY body of water in the nation. Some of these pools have tournaments both days of every weekend from May through September and still produce awesome fishing.

    This research is severely flawed in my opinion.

    cade-laufenberg
    Winona,MN/La Crosse, WI
    Posts: 3667
    #379701

    Brovarny-
    Thanks for your awesome reply! You made some great points there and i have to say i am on your side.

    Quote:


    The folks like bigfish won’t see the study, it’s flaws, or the deceptive results. They will only see a big fish kill connected with those people in the fancy boats.


    I am not against the tournament anglers at all, in case there is anybody out there that thinks that i am. I do not think that it is the anglers that caused harm to these fish. Certainly, the stress that is imposed on the fish through catching them and weighing them cant help any, but i agree that if the fish are penned with no oxygen, food, or flowing water, There are going to be problems.couldnt they have done the study a different way like say putting tags on the fish or something along those lines?? I dont care how big the pens are, there shouldnt be 100 bass confined in a space like that..I wanted to put this post up to see what you guys thought and everybody has a good point. Its discussions like this that could improve things for the future- as Gone fishing said, and in the long run, will save the lives of the bass.

    amwatson
    Holmen,WI
    Posts: 5130
    #379723

    I am not going to pick sides on this issue, but, I do have to relay something I heard. I was shooting my bow at the range and this very topic was being discussed. Most of the talk was very negative. So, what I am saying here is, the newspaper really prematurally put that article in the paper and definitely slanted it. I have had my issues with some of the bass guys, but even I can say this was an outright slam on tourney and bass fisherman. Not only does this affect bass fisherman, but ALL tournies. But, until we can see all the pertinent information on how the study was conducted, with our own eyes, we are all just speculating on hearsay.
    Now, I do have a few questions of my own that I would like answered, that are not to be taken as accusations or insinuations.
    1.How do you feel about keeping the fish in the livewell, transported to Wal-Mart, then transported back to be released? Do you think this may have any affect on the fish?
    2. Was that tournament during the hotspell we had, or was it “typical” weather?
    Like I said, I am just curious. As hard as you guys defend yourselves, I sure as heck hope you raise HELL over the article.

    eronningen
    Rochester, MN
    Posts: 1885
    #379731

    Give me an address to attack and I will send a letter. Get it going.

    eronningen
    Rochester, MN
    Posts: 1885
    #379732

    Wats:
    1.) I feel good about the Walmart deal and transporting them there. The tournament owes it to Walmart who supports the whole darn FLW and its circuits. Keep in mind its only 10 boats those days, not 200. Those fish get fresh water tanks at Walmart just like anywhere else man. No worries on this one. So no I don’t think it would affect the fish any more than any other weigh in.
    2.) Whats typical Wats. I don’t think it matters. The way they did that study was chitty. What a total waste of time. And look how many more fish they killed for some stupid study that provides junk results.

    Jay Jones
    Onalaska Wi
    Posts: 107
    #378254

    I read the Lacrosse Tribune daily and I think they were just presenting facts that they received, I dont think they were out to slam tournament fishing, they gave that tournament alot of coverage for a week with all kinds of positive things, especially the economic impact on the area.
    Are they a perfect paper no, but I dont think we have heard the last of this. One question I do have is why is there a primary release site, dont the area bass clubs have a release boat, why cant the relase fish in multiple places in 7,8and 9, yes I know time and money but sure would make more sense than dumping them all in one area, maybe I’m wrong about this, anyone got an answer.

    SLee
    Crystal,MN
    Posts: 168
    #379739

    Quite a study! All this proves is that bass die when subject to low oxygen levels.

    However….if 39 bass were found dead in the immediate area….you can figure that the true delayed mortality rate was probably about 4 times that. Usually a little over 50 % of the bass will sink rather than float. Then you have to throw in the amount that swam off and died.

    I would guess the true delayed mortality rate would have been between 200-300 dead bass.

    Thats only around 10-15%! Hardly a disaster.

    fishgod
    Posts: 3
    #379740

    I was a comercial fisherman for years ,the reason the fish are dieing is the way they are touched ,we learned that if you handle them at all you are wipeing the slime off them and they will die,these were carp and catfish and they are alot tougher than bass or walleye, you would think that the dnr knows this too,now I guide fisherman and I tell them if you are going to let it go don;t touch or even bring it in let it go in the net just my 2 cents

    brovarney
    Posts: 662
    #379745

    Can anyone out there post the phone, snailmail and email addrerss for the La Crosse Tribune letters to the editor?

    danwi
    westby wi
    Posts: 864
    #379757

    Letters to the editor
    LaCrosse Tribune
    401 n.3rd st
    LaCrosse WI 54601
    608-791-8232

    fishahollik
    South Range, WI
    Posts: 1776
    #379758

    I am not a huge fan of these huge tourneys. BUT if this study was grossly mishandled, then that is a huge faux pas. I also think the paper probably reported what it was “fed”. Either way…the comment about the fish being killed was worth it for all the money brought in. That statement is way off. If they had been killed with a fillet knife and fed to homeless, or used to feed some needy families, thats different, but to be killed and wasted is wrong any way you look at it. The eagles get plenty to eat, I know, I feed them plenty of moon eyes. I would like to see all tourneys have better/larger tanks to care for the fish, then released at several locations, not just one place thats convienient. Spend a few hundered extra dollars of the thousands or millions the tourney makes to do this.

    To contact the Trib, if e-mailing is better for you…here is the addy.

    [email protected]

    And toll free ph number. 800-262-0420

    Jeremiah Shaver
    La Crosse, WI
    Posts: 4941
    #379766

    Quote:


    I read the Lacrosse Tribune daily and I think they were just presenting facts that they received


    That’s the problem right there, is that those aren’t the facts….at least not the facts that need to be published.

    I would encourage everyone to email their opinions about this. Here are some other email addy’s I would CC: on your letter to the editor

    Jerry Davis- [email protected] (wrote the article)
    Bob Lamb – [email protected] (Outdoor writer)

    mossboss
    La Crescent, MN
    Posts: 2792
    #379785

    How does anyhting in that study get into the survival of culled fish? Wouldn’t you have to get the fish that were culled, and then pen them (even then, ignoring all the issues with penned with. At best, this study is a small attempt to study post weigh in mortality, though I would argue is would be a very poor one for that as well.

    radio tagging culled fish seems to me to be the onloy true way to get an idea with what happens to culled fish.

    Jeremiah Shaver
    La Crosse, WI
    Posts: 4941
    #379786

    The study had nothing to do w/culling…just post weigh-in mortality…as you stated.

    B.C.
    La Crosse, WI
    Posts: 1111
    #379789

    Quote:


    Can anyone out there post the phone, snailmail and email addrerss for the La Crosse Tribune letters to the editor?


    I need his home address, please.

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