Cold Water Smallies

Im the Upper Mississippi person mentioned in the In-Fisherman,Extreme Smallmouth article. From the tone of the thread I suspect that some of you are questioning how it might work on the Mississippi. Keep in mind not all of the Mississippi is riverine. The intent of the article is to describe a cold water technique that works in many smallmouth systems. Wintering smallmouth can group in very large schools and are susceptible to over-harvest; so details about the exact location needs to be protected. As many of you know Minnesota has a catch-and release only season on smallmouth starting September 15th of each year. The regulation applies to the St. Croix River, but does not apply to the Mississippi boarder between MN and WI.
Of the last 4 winters only one has been what we consider typical. Much of the Mississippi was ice free well into December and portions of it opened up in early march. This has allowed the opportunity to see how far one can push the envelope to catch smallmouth. Its the quest of knowledge, not the joy of catching these smallmouth that keeps me on the water. The fishing in early March consists of hours of dragging a grub across the bottom without a bite. I’ve never been skunked but 1 or 2 fish that can hardly fight is typical. At the same time my friends are fishing below the lock and dams catching loads of walleye and sauger. The bottom line is these fish can be caught in very cold water with surface temperature down to 38 degrees.
The beauty of the dragging technique is you are in the strike zone most of the time. As the fall progress the fish change depths but once you find the right depth you can keep you lure at that depth. Once wintering starts they tend to stay at the same depth all the time. A word of warning about taking fish out of deep water. They must be released directly back where they were caught. Do not put them in the live well for a photo session or move them to a different location. They may not have the energy to make it back to a suitable wintering location or they may not be able to make it back to the bottom if their swim bladder adjusts to the pressure change. See the In-Fisherman, Catch 22 article of several years ago for more information of the damage we can do to the fine fish as they move to winter.

I can’t help but be skeptical of your observations in stating the fact that this information is so substantial that your depiction of location could and most likely lead to over harvesting. While I agree that smallies bunch up in great numbers in the winter and utilize depth as overhead cover and feed on the forage retreating to these similar areas. This is well know and documented. I would gladly challenge you to a day on the water to prove my point. I have used tubes for years HOWEVER I will out fish your tube dragging technique with a hand tied hair jig preferably tied by Phil. Now I don’t mean to sound combative but locating wintering smallies is a trick in itself, and once done I will agree that your successes can be tremendous. Similar to the spring where the locals carry buckets of smallies out of the warm water discharges and spawning flats I will agree that they are easy to catch when you are WHERE THE FISH ARE.. –grin-

I believe I was the person questioning this technique prior. My question was relating to actually finding fish from the “Flats to the Main river” Its just not happening in water temps below 40 unless you are talking about deep water pockets. There are very few pockets and most are a result of wingdams or islands. The problem most have is figuring out how to fish UNDER the current. As for ecosystems in the river that resemble and or fish like lake systems, Well there aren’t any. It’s a different ecosystem and its inhabitance relate differently. Their world has a river connected to it and with this being said there is a definite measurable cause and effect relationship between the 2.

Like I mentioned prior in lake systems some techniques can transfer to rivers and be effective but in general location will not. I don’t mean to belittle the technique as I agree with it immensely. I challenge some if the information herein.
Jc

— side note-
I am glad you are here and I enjoy your insights.

To summarize:
The River is not all main channel but the main channel does influence all water in the basin and there is no one secret that can be so overwhelmingly significant that it could be the basis for over harvesting.

JC

There are several points we don t agree on. As far as lure go I haven t tried hair jigs so I may be missing something. However, I have experimented with lots of lures and presentations and have fine-tuned the system. I am confident I m efficient at all aspects of presenting a lure to, and getting strikes from these fish. By the way, you are reading something into the discussion, I don t believe I said I was dragging tubes.

As far as over-harvest goes I will not waver from my stance. At the peak we have had several 100 fish day. On one outing we had 7 triples. Some of these areas could be hit with a long cast from shore. I m sure live-bait fisherman would have a hay day in these spots. An unscrupulous angler could put a hurt on these schools. It s not just the number of fish that are taken that s of concern. I think we all agree that there aggressive fish that are easy to catch and non-aggressive fish drive us all nuts. I m concerned about taking to many of the easy fish out of the system and changing the genetics of the fish population. There are also the fish that are moved and die because they can t find a suitable wintering location. In-addition there are the accidental injury s that we all cause. I have had fish with their eyes bulging or swim bladders protruding from there mouths because they where taken from to excessively deep water. I have set a depth limit I won t fish below. We all catch fish where we injure an eye from within the mouth. It all adds up. The fact that Minnesota has a no-harvest regulation to protect wintering fish should say something.

I agree that current is a major part the Mississippi ecosystem. However, there are plenty of lakes that are strongly influenced by current. I was introduced to the dragging technique at the BASS Northern Division Tournament on Lake Erie in 1998. That fall was the first time we started putting it together. As things progressed I was amazed at how similar the systems fished. We don t have the reefs but we have the extended shelf that drop rapidly into deep water. Sense then I have fished Regionals on Green Bay and St Clair and trust me they fish a lot like our waters.

Please don t take this personally, but one of the reasons I choose to stay on the sideline on many of these discussion boards is much of the dialog appears to be little more than mental masturbation. It seems to be a game of who can trump whose comments. What happened to sharing information?

Lets start by clarifying a couple things I feel are happening. First It seems I have put you on the defensive which was not my intention. I will admit I can be crass at times. Second I was not trying to Trump your statement. I found it most interesting. I must have read into a previous post that dealt with dragging tubes from the flats to the main channel. I think you will agree that in our river system this formula will only generate headaches.

As for over harvesting. I have seen the effects of meat eaters cleaning everything they catch and confer that thee smallies can at times be almost to easy to catch. I put every faith in the DNR to regulate this resource and I am adamant about adhering to these rules that govern our catch. I have to say that in the early years I would almost come to fists with anglers taking home big fish for reasons similar to your own. Yep they can definitely hurt the genetics. The transformation from the prior post into your explanation has brought some ill intended baggage I believe.

In only dealing with your post I will say that fish are fish and in that since there are some similarities between all bodies of water but I have found that years of tournament fishing the main river plays a significant role in every aspect of the fish in the backwaters with the exception of maybe spring fed lakes that are separated by dikes and still there is much cross over. I have fished the MN Team Supreme circuit for a few years with a sub starting the season and found that my catching ability took some major adjustments in going from lakes to rivers. I will be as bold as saying most lake guys have a hard time finding river fish from what I attribute to them having a poor understanding of how the main river effects these backwater fish. I am sure you will agree.

In keeping this in the sharing realm I will also let you in on the hair jig. I could go on for days but once you learn this technique you will be able to apply it to fish in the river and in lake systems. The difference is of course location.

It makes me laugh a little because I am sure there are hundreds if not thousands of people out there whom are trying to figure out these wintering areas and I am of like mind. If they are to benefit from these fruits the river provides they need to first learn a little biology and then a little more. Once they understand and apply what they know they will figure out this without me marking up a map for them.

As far as mental masturbation. –grin- What are you talking about. I am assuming that you are referring to people spouting info just to make themselves feel good. This could be however I am much more interested in making sure what is stated is fact as best I know it, That I call a spade a spade, and that in doing so other anglers of my mindset will share info that is meaningful to me. I could sit here all day and tell everyone that I am catching buzzbait largemouth in 50 degree water but you would be the first to set the record straight… or at least I would hope. There is so much inaccurate info out there that I have had to put into practice just to prove its inaccuracy and if I had only someone of experience to contradict these ideals I would be further ahead in the game…

I am rambling so I await further comments.
Jc

Riverfan and JC,
While I enjoyed the banter, or mental masturbation as you put it, I would like to say that JC appears to be true to his last post about looking for accurate knowledge and refuting horsefeathers. And as he admitted he can come across rather bluntly or even arrogantly in some of his posts, i.e., the message is sincere but the presentation needs work sometimes.

As far as the article in In-Fisherman I thought it was informative and very generic at the same time but that is the norm for IF. My experience in finding the wintering honey holes can be summed up as cold, wet and mostly unfruitful. Sometimes even when you do find them getting them to bite reliably or for extended periods is a stretch. My trigger finger gets cold just thinking about chasing these schools of wintering bass. My experience has been that slow and slower are the only speeds to fish when the water temp gets below about 48 degrees sustained. At 50 degrees, especially on the way down in the fall it can be fast and furious but when it goes below that and stays below it gets mighty tough. On the other hand if it gets to 45 and them jumps up to 48 it can be good until it drops off again.

I agree with both of you that dragging a bait on the bottom is about the only reliable presentation during cold water but I have found that other plastic lures will work in addition to the hair and tubes that you guys are professing. Even Carolina or Mojo rigs can save the day at times with a dead sticking retrieve. I found this out many years ago when I had to warm my frozen hands every five minutes and just let the mojo sit there. This presentation has become “my” go to presentation in the cold water period especially with air temperatures that cause freezing guide tips. Just for fun (!!) why don’t each of you try a mojo rig with a baby creature lure like a baby brushog in watermelon w/ red flake or a brown color with this dead sticking presentation and warm your hands or eat a sandwich and see if it works for you. Sometimes you learn things when you aren’t even trying!

JC
Put me on the defensive may not describe my demeanor. Lets just say you got my hackle up by challenging 3 years worth of what I consider original work. Keep in mind the intent was to determine what the coldest water smallmouth could be caught in. The answer is if you can get a boat in the wintering areas you can catch smallmouth using the technique described in the In-Fisherman article. My records indicate the latest I ve been able to catch them was December 18th. The next spring I was on the water on March 3rd. That is pushing is the envelope here in Minnesota.

I m curious about your hair jig technique, please describe it to us. As I said in the last post we (three of us worked on the system) have fine-tuned the presentation to be as efficient as possible. I have had the opportunity to share the system with a couple of Minnesota s renowned fisherman including the author of the article. They both questioned if the dragging technique was the best approach. By the time an hour had passed they were both converts. By the way, Steve Quinn shares the same passion about cold water techniques as I do. He has done a lot of experimenting on cold water largemouth in lakes and is a true authority.

My pet peeve with many of the post is what I call pseudo-science -BS for short-. People make observations of fish behavior and equate them as fact. They make statements like the fish bit because, or the fish relocate because. The facts are we have no way of really knowing why fish do anything. We can t see with their eyes, we can t get inside there brain, we will never know what their motivations are. I believe the term is anthropomorphic thinking. The act of trying to equate animal to human behavior. The best we can do is to make sound observation and postulate what we think is the cause. Using the FACT word is wrong. I hate to guess how many hours are wasted trying to convert these FACTS into fishing success.

Thanks JC and Riverfan for your river discussion. it does take some considerable time to write long posts, Jack.

Riverfan, the best advice I can give you is to not get offended or put-off by anything that you read here. My grandfather used to say, “Belive half of what you see and none of what you hear.” JC is, from what I have read here, the embodiment of that truism. At one point, he called my temp guage a liar.

That said, his insight is very much worthwhile. Fish location is essentially chaotic – driven by literally thousands (if not millions) of minute factors to which we have no insight. What we, as fishermen, are tying to do is akin to what weathermen do in generating a forecast. Using data that is avaialble from the factors that we can measure such as flow, clarity, light penetration, forage, et al, we use what knowledge we have to generate a probability density function that tells us the most likely spots to find active fish. We then hit those spots, and if we find the fish elsewhere, update our model with some other piece of information that may explain why they weren’t where they should have been.

JC, Riverfan, Gianni…

I have one question relating to JC’s statement: “they need to first learn a little biology and then a little more. Once they understand and apply what they know they will figure out this without me marking up a map for them.”

Where can I learn this information?! I don’t know where to start. Is there a good book you guys know of? All the books and info I see or have contain info that is hard for me to apply to the river (FYI, I’m a college student and a decent bass fisherman that has a lot to learn, especially about the inticacies of the river). I used to ask a lot of questions on this board, but I felt like I was just picking for hotspots (and judging by some reactions, my feelings were accurate). For example, what’s the deal with sand flats? What exactly are they? Where are they? Where are the fish on them? I could go on and on… I want to know about that biology stuff as you say, but it seems to be aa bit elusive. I mean, there are days when a bare bank will have a bass or two while the prettiest little laydown will be void of fish. What’s up with that?!

Well, any help is appreciated! Thanks guys.

BTW, my last outing on the river was pretty decent…quite a few smallies on rip rap banks with flukes and cranks, no real big fish. That was two weekends ago before that water came back up to haunt me like it did all summer!! lol

Greg,

There are several good books out there to learn from, some of which you may have aready read. The books I would recommend would be the In-fisherman Handbooks, Modern Book of the Black Bass(1995 edition), and more related to river smallies is Dan Gapen’s latest book. After reading a few books, you will figure out that you have to sort out or pick and chose the information that fits the type of water you are fishing. The first two books mentioned will give you some good “bass biology”, and talk about how all the different factors affects the fish. Dan Gapen’s book has a lot of good information on smallies on his particular waters, but you can apply some things to the “Big Muddy”. I hope this helps you in your quest.

Good luck. “Fish On”

Check the public library also, I know that there are a few decent books here at the CR lib. Basically any information you can get is going to make you a better fisherman, but take a cue from JC and continue to question the truth of what you read. Bad info is worse than no info at all.

Greg,

As previously stated I would HIGHLY recommend the in fisherman handbook. I have literally read it over 20 times and still gain insight every time. Its funny, I compete against Steve Quinn (In Fisherman editor) often in some MN tournaments. I have found that he is very consistent but I have to admit that I have seen situations arise that these publications would call for a certain approach. I have also witnessed him doing something to the contrary. I wonder if he gets that “tunnel vision’ in practice as we all to often get. –grin- Actually it always makes me rethink my approach.
That being said I hope you can make the connection.

As for other publications… I have not yet read another book that parallels. I do however find quality information posted in the DNR online records. Dry reading but beneficial info.
Jc

Gianni,
I remember that comment. You sir have a good memory. Last weekend I found my temp gauge lying as well. It said that the largemouth out in 39 degree water were schooling and chasing cranks. We both know that can’t be true. These bass told me to the tune of around 80 fish in about 7 hours that my temp gauge must need replacing. –lol-

We caught fish after fish. The largemouth were in the current and were actually busting baitfish. The size was not what I would have liked but who can resist catching 1 and 2 lb fish all day. I for one needed this to help me along through winter.
Its funny. I have not seen these types of behaviors in Largemouth in this water temp. Smallies, sure but not the green ones.

What this says to me is that even though these fish are cold blooded that photo period must have some, albeit obscure and non-provable, effect on feeding behavior. I look forward to learning more next weekend.
Jc

Are you sure your not talking about Ken Penrod?
If Dan has a smallie book out I’d like to borrow it.
jc

Bass 423,

Your observation about the temperature change is consistent with what I have seen. The fishing is very difficult during rapid decline, but can be very good as the temperature stabilizes. However, I have been able to experience excellent fishing down to 40 degrees. I suspect the sheer number of fish in the wintering schools tips the odds in my favor. I purchased a Mojo kit 2 years ago with full intentions of learning the system. It s still unused even though I try to set aside time each day to try new spots or lures. I work a 4 day week, my children are grown and I have a very understand wife so I usually get to fish 3 days a week. Even with that much time, I haven t found time to try all the new techniques such as drop-shoting, Mojo s etc. I will move dead-sticking a Mojo up my to-do list. By the way, one of my bass club mates has some great ideas about drop-shoting that everyone can use. To save money and recycle your old jig heads, cut the hook off and use the head as a drop-shot weight. Another problem is how to avoid tangles in the rod-box with the sinker free at the end of the line. What he does is leave a long tag end beyond the sinker, than he ties a loop to put over the reel handle. From there you can wrap the line around the rod like you would with other lures.

Gianna,

Your Grandfather is a wise man. A healthy degree of skepticism can save a lot of headaches. I used to question much of what the professional bass fisherman wrote. I figured there is not way they were going to give away their secrets. What I overlooked is how important integrity is in our sport. As I gained experience I began to see what they were saying. The hard part was finding the key details in the article. Many times you had to read between the lines to get to the important points. Back in the early nineties I fished with a gentleman from Pennsylvania. He was telling me about a hot new bait that he found at home. He gave the name: Herb Reed and instructions on how to order the lures. I blew it off as another gimmick for me to waste my money on. Two years later the Slugo by Herb Reed got national recognition and became the rage. I hate to think what kind of damage I could have done to the competition if would have taken his advice and tried that new bait. Live and learn, I don t blow anything off anymore.

Greg,

I m pushing 60, an OK bass fisherman and like you, still trying to figure out the river. I had three years in a row where the fish behaved like you would expect. The move in and out with water levels and flow. I thought I had a handle on which spots would be going for all conditions. Than comes 2002 and everything went out the window. Ends up those spots I had given up as dead were where the fish were. All I can say is keep an open mind and remain observant. As far as the sand flats go, I m in the dark. I’ll take a stab at what they might be. I have some spots where a sandbar creates a current beak that the fish use. Most are in backwater lakes where strong flow enters. As the flow spreads and slackens, a delta forms. Most are shallow and the ones I fish have 2-4 feet of water just below the lip with weeds growing within yards of the drop. The fish usually set up just under the lip and ambush from there. I fish them by pulling a spinnerbait or fluke off the edge. I know I m missing something so if anyone want s to explain them to us we are listening.

JC

Where do I find Phils Jigs?

Im returning to the sidelines where I prefer to stay. I can t leave without plugging my favorite tournament. Mark your calendars for May 4&5 for the KFAN Team Bass Championship benefiting St. Judes Children s Hospital out of Lake City MN. It s a great tournament and a great cause.

I hate to see you go back to the sidelines. You bring alot of experience and another interesting personality and a wealth of knowledge to the discussions here.

I wish I would have more time lately to post. There has been some interesting topics lately.

One thing that was totally re-enforced to me this year was that I really know nothing!! When I started thinking I was figuring some things out, I would have days where doing the exact opposite produced the best. That’s why I always try to use, “I think”, “maybe”, and “perhaps” alot when I post my theories. I only can make an educated guess based on my experiences, education, and observations. I am probably wrong as much as I am right. But sharing ideas in these kind of forums bring alot more experience, education, and observation than one guy can get alone.

Anyway, I hope you stay active. That goes for everyone that posts here.

JC,

You stand me corrected. Ken Penrod’s book is the one I was referring to, not Dan Gapen. I have read some many books in the last 9 months, I can’t hardly keep them straight. I do believe I have one by Gapen, but not sure. Somebody else is borrowing them right now. When I get them back, I’ll let you know if it is by Gapen.

Mac

Is that the specific title, “The In-Fisherman Handbook?” I have several small pamphlet type books from when I subscribed to them, but don’t they have a whole huge series of those small publications?

Thank you for your insights and comments Riverfan. All of the opinions expressed and techniques shared is why this website is one of the best on the internet. Thanks again Riverfan.

Greg,

The title is “An In-Fisherman Handbook of Strategies”, and it will include the exact type of fish you are going after. Ex. largemouth bass, smallmouth bass, or just plain bass. The books paperback and around 250 pages long. I hope this helps your search.

Good Fishin, Mac.

Gapen does have a Smallie book….I have it at the cabin and will try to remember to get the title next weekend. The one I have is a good 15+ years old.

Riverfan,
The tip on recycling old lead heads for drop shot weights is a good idea. I have not mastered this technique yet but keep telling myself that I need to when fishing slack water or lake situations but it is hard to teach an old dog new techniques! I recently saw an underwater view of a drop shot that was very interesting. I had been using the drop shot as a moving bait presentation like a Carolina rig and not in a vertical static presentation. I will make this change in the future and hopefully will benefit from the results. The plastic was sitting there wiggling in place just like a minnow and looked very natural. My presentation must have looked like a worm dragging a ball and chain around!

I hope you give the mojo a try this fall and winter. I think you will be surprised at how effective it can be in the coldest conditions. I also drag tubes when the water (or air temp) is a little warmer. I am interested in trying hair or better yet fur jigs for smallies this year. I used to rabbit fur and chicken feather jigs alot for walleye in the spring but in a swimming retieve so it gave the fur/feasthers some action. It worked very well for me in many locations including the dam in Montello where I many times would outfish others to the piont where they would get rather upset at me! I now only go there at night so they can’t see as much of the activity.

If you must retreat to the sidelines, which I hope you don’t, you can always email me or others on this site. Good luck this fall and let me know how you are doing with the mojo.

Hey all,

Not trying to start anything here, but here goes anyway. Books are just that! Translating what you have
read immediately into a natural environment can work, but rarely. Insight tools they are!
How often is the vague and general descriptions used in In Fisherman publication usually get you no where?

Yes it’s a start and sometimes a darn good one. I guess my point is, time on the water is the best teacher and will
always be. As far as water temperature and how that immediately effects bass and their feeding habits? Hmmmmmmmm?
I’d be lying if I told you I haven’t caught them in a small stream, letting my plastic drop off the edge of a sheet of ice nearly encasing one of my favorite holes! I’d be lying if I told you there is a way to catch them and it’s the best!
I would be fibbing If I claimed something was constant in a river. WHat’s my point who knows?

Jim W

Jim,
From your insights one could logically ascertain that whom ever has the most time on the water, should be the best fishermen…. Barring the variable “students” are similar in intellect , comprehension , desire, attentiveness, and a list of other attributes….
This comment sounds arguable , and mildly silly even to me… of which I parallel directly to “Translation of what you have just read into….” As it relates to books.

I guess what I am saying is 2 fold. First the more I read the more I understand. And the More I understand is directly attributable to my catch. Time on the water is important but educating yourself is a better step than just jumping in and seeing if you can swim.
Jc

I think that to be a good fisherman, you need to have some knowledge about fish. But if you look at the guys who win alot of the tournaments on the river, they are commercial fisherman. Why they do so well, they are on the river every day and follow the fish. Because if they don’t find the fish, they don’t get a paycheck. I am not saying that to be the best fisherman you need to become a commercial fisherman, but I do think that the best fisherman are the ones that put a decent amount of time on the water.

As usual and often, words written are often misinterpreted. Please make sure that you completely understand
what I mean before assuming!
Where did I say that you would be the best fisherman if you spent the most time on the water????

I guess in an ambiguous, semi-devils advocate kind of way I was trying to put an end to endless banter on a subject
dead many posts ago! I unfortunately failed.

I apologize for upsetting, or insinuating………..something?

Back to time on the water! Maybe I can get my book published soon enough to retire, on the water!LOL

Keep the rods bendin’!!!!

Jim W

I understood perfectly. That’s why I made such an absurd comment. So you see assuming was not part of the equation. I was simple including the idea that an ounce worth of education will pay 10 fold.
These commercial fishermen that BassBoy says are the best hooks on the river I am sure attended class of some type. This was more likely in the form if a Teacher / Student relationship in regards to his training. He did not just spend a lot of time commercial fishing to become good. He was likely taught from someone.

I understand that there is a need to be taught, but once you are taught something you need to practice it and use it frequently. If you are taught something 10 years ago and don’t do it for a year a two, something might change. What I am saying is that those that are on the water often can follow the fish.