Tourneys and hot weather. Something should be done

After fishing a tournament out on Lake Minnetonka and seeing how hard it is to keep fish healthy/alive in 82-84 degree water I think some changes should be made.

Very few tournaments are held down south due to to many fish dying when the water is so hot. That is what I have heard. Maybe its just cause nobody wants to fish in 100 degree heat.

Anyways….Here is my idea. A 6 hour maximum on all tournaments held in July and August!

Show me how this is a good/bad proposal.

Would you support it or not?

I kind of agree.. I do note the fact that fish are harder to keep alive during hot weather…but as a tournament angler, I think it is our duty to prepare for these types of situations.

This past saturday we had our limit in the boat by 6:45 , and kept every single fish alive until weigh in.

We basically kept the water circulating all day, dropped in some Catch and Release tablets, and had ice on hand in case we needed it. We didn’t lose 1 fish.

But there were several fish that I saw at weigh in that didn’t make it. Unfortunate indeed.

Another thing we did to help combat this, and not just for the fish, was that we moved the tourney hours back from 6-2 to 5-1. The early start kept both us and the fish out of the heat just a bit less.

To the point of 6 hrs….I don’t think it’s the amount of time fished, it’s what hours of the day and preparation by anglers…

Good topic

Thanks Slop for sharing that. There are ways to keep fish alive. Now anglers who don’t fish tourneys will have more knowledge of a better way of keeping their fish alive. In my book anyway, bass are sport fish and not for eating. Theres walleyes and panfish for the pan.
\Thanks, Bill

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Another thing we did to help combat this, and not just for the fish, was that we moved the tourney hours back from 6-2 to 5-1. The early start kept both us and the fish out of the heat just a bit less.

To the point of 6 hrs….I don’t think it’s the amount of time fished, it’s what hours of the day and preparation by anglers…

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I like the idea of starting the tournament earlier (like first light) and ending earlier in the afternoon before the temps get too overbearing. Unfortunately, I believe many lakes associations in MN have pressured the DNR to place new rules where tournaments cannot begin until 7am. I think it has something to do with they don’t like the noise of the motors waking them up at the crack of dawn. Many tournaments on MN lakes now have this rule in place. Too bad for the fish….

TO Slop and Anchors….it is very hard to keep bass alive..I also fished this past Saturday the FOM and lost 2 bass. I also had my limit by 5:40 after an early take off. We started at 5 and were done by 1:30..but after trying to care for them all day I lost 2 the last hour of the tourney. We added ice and chemicals and still no luck. I hate to even weigh in when this happens. But luckly with the penalty we still won, and I did find an older fisherman that was happy to take my 2 fish home….Even though it was super hot we did manage to boat over 60 legals that day…and I have the sunburn to prove it…

Doesn’t this all come down to the quality of the livewell???

Reason why is this:
Last Thursday, while fishing with MNFISH on a super hot day with 88 degree water, I kept a white bass alive all day, for about 7 hours in the live well. I ended up releasing the fish alive and VERY, VERY healthy!!!!!

Another reason I say this is yesterday (Sunday), while fishing P4, I had 2 walleyes, a big crappie, and a 5lb pike in the livewell for about 8 hours. ALL FISH WERE FULLY ALIVE AND VERY, VERY HEALTHY!!!!

MNFISH’s boat has the automatic aerator. My buddy’s boat I fished out of yesterday, we kept the aerator on all day.

Now,
I know these fish are not bass. However, crappies are sensitive fish, so are white bass. So again, wouldn’t this be more of a livewell operation discussion???

Why is it only a couple of people brought in some dead fish to the weigh in, and not everybody????

Just questions……..

Actually….It does not come down to the quality of the livewell. It is mostly due to the fact that hot water holds less oxygen. You can only bring so much ice…and it only lasts so long.

One thing you have to remember is that just because a bass is alive at weigh in…..does not mean it will survive.

Delayed mortality is a huge factor. I would bet that there are 5-10 times as many bass dying from delayed mortality during this hot weather than you will see at weigh in.

It would not surprise me if 50% of the bass die during these hot water tournaments.

Granted…..The water is hotter than it usually gets so maybe nothing needs to be done.

Nitro,

I fished the same tourney bro!!, how could we not know that each other was going to be there? Or did you know and not care to say hi ? I know you did your best to keep your fish alive, we all do

Gary,

I too wondered that same question. Friday I kept a 7lb walleye alive in my livewell until 4:30 that afternoon, when i dropped it off at the taxidermist ….Now walleye’s IMO die a lot quicker in the well than bass do.

It’s also a good idea to not recirculate water, but to keep pumping fresh water in.

Ranger livewells “git er done” !! lol

Slee,

I’m going to disagree and say that livewells do play a part….if your well doesn’t work like it should, and the pump isn’t as strong as it should be, it WILL effect the amounts of oxygen in your well. (as you mentioned, O2 is key)

Our fish were very much alive and kicking at the end of the day. They were not lathargic and I’ll bet the farm they will live….I mean..they aren’t walleyes..lol



I’m on the other side of the spectrum, which is fine.

Your right to be thinking about fish care and delayed mortality due to increased temps. There is an a negative effect from heat. Most of the best things to do, are listed in the other posts that have been made. Tournaments in other states, all try different stuff. One idea is to allow weigh-in any time during the day, another is a reduced bag limit to keep what fish are in the livewells, a little less stressed. We are going to lose 25% on most fish during/from/because of catching, transporting, weighing, stressing, and releasing these fish. Most of the mortality comes from immune systems being stressed and not being able to deal with other diseases and conditions. Most guys go 25% !!! You must be crazy!!! But this figure actually increases with hot weather, poor livewell management, bad weigh-ins (long periods in plastic bags) and improper release. It is not unrealistic to see 45% mortality. So, as more bass fisherpersons come to better understand this, hopefully we will evolve some new ways to do this better. Ice, salt, keeping the circulation going all day, all will help, but nothing is 100%.

SLee;

If hot water doesn’t hold as much oxygen as cold water, then why wouldn’t pumping in fresh “hot” water save fish??? Are you not replenishing the oxygen?

IF the water is “fresh”, it doesn’t matter the temp, for the temp factor is eliminated. Why? Because it is fresh, just like the lake water.

If the livewell isn’t operated or set up correctly, it will kill fish, for there is not “fresh” water coming in.

If bass can live in 90 degree water in the lake, then they can live in 90 degree water in a livewell that has the proper setup with recirculation of fresh water.

Make sense???

As for delayed mortality, I hear what you are saying, however there is a difference in releasing healthy fish and lethargic fish.

When you have to chase a fish in a live well and struggle with it in your hands to release it, because it is kicking so hard, that fish isn’t going to die because of being in the livewell.

However,
If the fish is lethargic and has no response to your picking it up and slowly sinks into the depths of the water, sure, that fish “might die”.

I will say “might”, for I took a 40″ pike that was about dead and revived it by keeping her in a large livewell for several, several minutes by pumping fresh water on her. Even when she was ready to go, we still kept her in the livewell for several minutes. I beleive that fish survived, due to being revived with “fresh water” and being confined and calm in a livewell, without stress.

But, I would like to know what your theory is, for the hot weather killing fish in the livewell? What is actually killing them?

Gary, I would have to disagree with part of what you said. I think a big factor is the 80+ degree water going in the wells. You need to remember that the water temps are much cooler under the milfoil or on the rocks where most of these fish came from. The temperature change can be as much as 15 degrees. As an example, imagine being taken out your air conditioned house and get stuck outside in an auto on a hot day. Even with the windows down getting fresh air, the temp makes a big difference in stress levels. I can easily see the stress levels being more dramatic for fish. Also, compare it to walleyes tournies that are usually set as kill tournies in the summer. Obviously the DNR knows the water temps do make a difference. I agree that faulty pumps would contribute, but that would be mechanical issuses per boat where the temps affect all fisherman.

Gary, let me take a shot at answering. If you had to work on that Pike, it would have been better off in the frying pan. What goes on in the livewell is complex, but it involves both oxygen levels, ammonia and other waste products. The weakened immune systems cause many problems, susceptibility to viruses, funguses and other organ failures. Lymphocystis and dermal sarcoma’s are often seen. It looks like fish that normally would not be susceptible to Largemouth Bass virus, will or may be susceptible after normal tournament handling. If you look at the geographical spread of LMBV it seems to follow the major tournament trails. (While this is still an anecdotal finding, it looks likely). I was looking at some recent research that showed just how goofed up a fish’s enzymes, blood chemistry and respiration becomes when it is stressed. Hypoxia is a major cause of death, but the depressed immune diseases are also killers

We also need to compare lake vs river fishing here. I think most of the river fishing is shallower water that is moving and more of a constant temp from top to bottom. Like I said there is usually a 10 degree difference or more on Tonka.

Mike….

I was fishing shallow water w/current running through it.

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You need to remember that the water temps are much cooler under the milfoil or on the rocks where most of these fish came from

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If your livewell is setup correctly, it should be ideally recreating that same environment, which is a shady area w/fresh oxygen being ciruclated in.

I can guarantee you the water in my livewell at weigh-in was much cooler than that of “regular water” (w/or w/o adding in ice)

Good discussion

Buzz;

I hear what you are saying and it makes sense.

However, if new water is constantly being pumped in, wouldn’t that rid the ammonia and other waste products, along with the introduction of fresh, oxygenated water?

Mike;
True! Water at surface is not the same as water 10′ below. Interesting point though. Because I wonder how much the water cools down through be recirculated through the system (flowing water cools). The next time somebody it out, could they take a temp reading of the water inside the livewell, to see if it is the same as the water temp on the surface?

How about yet another twist – if you have a limit and the fishing license you hold is for a state in which culling is not legal, do you weigh early if the scales are open early? The dead fish penalty seems risky in the big scheme of things.
Not trying to start a match here just a thought.

Gary,

I refer all your questions to Buzz! He knows his stuff.

But…I will say that it does not matter if the water is fresh or not. Hot water hold less ppm of oxygen than cool water does. And Buzz is right…..few guys think that the fish they saw swim away will die from delayed mortality.

Flowing water only cools if it is exposed to a cooler temperature.

Thanks for the answers.

This is a good thread!

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Flowing water only cools if it is exposed to a cooler temperature

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So which is cooler…?

1. Sun Baked Water
2. Sun Baked Water w/provided cover (weeds, tree, etc)
3. Fully covered/shaded livewell Water

I think i’ll try to get some Water temps this week down in Praire, and compare it to my livewell temps. With and w/o Circulating water…Should be interesting

Saturday the air temp. is supposed to be 100 degrees, Not to mention the water temps are already in the high 80’s…It will be interesting to watch weigh in and see how many fish end up dead. Let’s hope it’s minimal

kizew..I, myself, would like to see anybody be able to weigh in early if they choose. And this has nothing to do with being able to cull or not. I know not a tournments have someone at the scales all the time, but maybe someone could due to the hot weather, like the thread says. But then you cannot fish after. That would be your choice. Would that maybe be an option? As to the rest of the conversation about live-wells…I do agreee that some live-wells are better then others…mostly then newer boats…but remember that we all cannot afford new boats. And most guys try their darnest about keeping fish alive…

Slopbass…meant no offense by not meeting you….Even though I fish many tounreys…I’m still pretty shy. At first anyways.. Took a few years to open up at the BFL..no with a new circut and feel like the odd guy out…..anyhow, my name is doug and we where lucky enough to win on Sat..but man did we catch fish…

Good livewells play a huge factor whether the fish live or die. Plain and simple. All these other factors are after the fact. If you have a crappy livewell you might as well plan on having some dead ones on these hot days.
I always leave mine on the manual mode pumping in new water so it runs non-stop. And these Ranger livewells work awesome. Argue all you want with that but its true. I could give example after example where I’ve seen others not be up to par on these hot days.

Let us know Slop, recirculating water should cool down.

Does your aerator system allow for recyling of the existing water, plus recirculating in new water and out with the old?

I am with you 100% Nitro – in my opinion, a tournament director, regardless of what level we are talking here, should have scales open during the tournament. Just seems to be a no brainer to me but I have not always been the sharpest knife in the drawer.

Gary,

It’s a RANGER, of course it can do both.

I’ll check out each way and see what differences occur

Slop,

Should be a good and informative experiment!

But here is my predictions. If you run the water constantly….It will stay the same temp from when you pull it in till it goes out. Unless your livewell/boat is significantly warmer or cooler than the water. Most likely it will be about the same. Either way the heat from the water or boat will be rapidly transfered and all contacts points between the water and the boat will be almost identical

If you leave the water in the livewell….and it is 100 degree out….the water temp in the livewell will go up. Even if the air temperature is 10 degree cooler than the water…..but the sun is out…..the livewell temps will go up.

I agree, tournament scales should be open for a majority of the day. Whether you have a junk livewell system or have a problem with a good system such as a cartridge burning out, you could bring those fish in ASAP and be done with it instead of killing fish and taking a penalty to boat.

Ranger livewells bring in fresh water any time its circulating, unless you have it on the recirculating mode which only should be used while running the boat on plane or loading the boat.
I am not running down other boat manufactuers livewells, just speaking from experience.

SLee, You are contradicting yourself aren’t you? If a livewell can keep the water the same temp. as when you drew it in, thats a good thing, not to mention adding oxygen constantly, isn’t it?
And even if the tempeture does rise slighty, thats what the aereators are for, to add oxygen, right?
And if you know how to properly use your livewells, you will be bringing in new water all the time. Its an win win situation, granted, the fish do experience stress no doubt.

I think the auto (timer) feature should be removed in all boats. If you got em’ in the box…run your pumps all the time.

Ranger Owners… If your Ranger’s are so high tech and include every available option imaginable, why haven’t your engineers came up with a livewell feature which runs the aerators 100% whenever it detects an unsafe high water temperature of say <75* or so or depreciated oxygen levels? Sounds pretty simple if your ask me. Some sort of thermo-switch which overrides the pump timer whenever the pre-determined unsafe temp is exceeded. This would eliminate the potential “operator error” and dead fish at the weigh-in during the heat of the summer. So the next tourney your in, when your non-boaters asks, “Why are your livewells running all the time now instead of intermittently like this morning?” You can answer, “Ranger has designed a smart-system which automatically knows when our fish in the box are at risk due lowered oxygen levels and increased water temps which are detected by sensors!”

You know it’s all out of love Rangerettes! Your still my dawgs!

– d-nort