culling now allowed in Wisconsin-Bassmasters

Just because a guy makes a comment that he could get a bait cheaper at another store, doesn’t mean he is a tourney fisherman. It just means, this indiviual was not very respectful to you and wasn’t very gracious after you allowed him to launch for free. The description of this person, could just as well be a fisherman in a 12 ft. john boat with oars!! Also no offense, but if I was a potential customer who was looking to goto a resort on the Wisconsin River, I would have a sour taste after reading what has been posted. No offense but not the best advertising/promotional plan.

What makes you think I’m here to advertise to what is obviously a tournament fisherman’s site?

I believe the gentleman in the other thread about tournaments sums it up pretty well. I’ve seen this inconsiderate behavior on the part of tournament fishermen far too often.

Perhaps rather than bash me for my beliefs you should spend a bit more time trying to clean up the image that I’m sure I’m not the only one has of you.

Think about it.

ps I was asked to come here and join the staff. I’m sure that won’t be happening now since I obviously go against the grain of what this site is primarily about…tournament fishing.

So I’ll leave you all to your fun. It wasn’t my intention to come here and pee in your oat meal.

Ray out.

“Special rules for special groups” is what worries me about this.

There’s no doubt in my mind that this culling rule will do little to hurt the bass fishery itself when and where it is employed by tournaments.

What will it hurt? This thread has shown the emotion from both side of the fence from a group that very much needs to stand united. I promise the guys that are pronoucing this a good thing without a possible downside that local lake associations and governments will ban / deny tournament access to prime waters. I mean do you really think that all those guys living in the big houses around the lakes really need money brought in by tournaments to survive? I don’t know how it works in WI but in MN a DNR permit for a tournament also needs permission for the local sherrif’s dept. and a local ordinace banning tournament will keep you from holding your event.

I got $5 right here says this WILL happen if “special rules for special groups” is allowed to drive a wedge between anglers. So maybe this fight is a PR fight. How best to keep this new rule from causing a riot with those that don’t fish or possible don’t like tournaments. Since the mom and pops vastly outnumber the guys in the fast boats this better be part of the stategy here if you really want to see tournaments thrive in even grow further as a result of being allowed to cull.

Ray, buddy, this is not a “tournament site.” Lots more non-tournament guys here than those those fish events regularly and FAR more non-participants than those that fish the big events. Ironically enough, a poll was done yesterday in this forum asking about tournament participation. Non-tournament types out numbered tournament guys.

Ray,

I’m not trying to come down on you, but go back and look at some of the posts you’ve just written…they aren’t much different than what that guy said to you about buying something cheaper at gander. You’re telling people to sit down and emphasizing YOUR river etc..etc… That to me gives a little insight about yourself…

A couple of comments I’d like to make about Tourney Anglers, Locals, Culling,etc..

1. We almost always practice Catch and Release or Selective Harvest.

2. While in tournaments, we do everything possible to keep our fish alive, not just because we get penalized, but because we do actually care about keeping fish alive.

3. We REALLY DO HELP LOCAL ECONOMIES. It’s a proven FACT!! You won’t hear an argument from any local hotels/motels, grocery stores, gas stations, bait shops…

4. NOT ALL, but I see more weekend anglers than tournament anglers going out fishing, consuming everything, trashing islands. throwing line over.

5. You say tournament anglers have a bad rap? Why? YES we travel faster than the average boat, and there are some tourney anglers that are incosiderate, but how do they/”we” differ from your recreational boater. If you dont’ like our boats, then i’m sure you don’t like jet skiiers, and those big cruisers will swamp about any boat w/their wake…so what really gives us the bad rap??? I would think in the back of every tournament angler, they do what they do to try and fullfil a dream of theirs….what’s wrong w/that?

On another note, this site is far from a tournament site. I can only name a handfull of people on here that fish tournaments.

Also, to the point of culling, What really makes it so bad? Is it really any different than Catch and Release? Today’s equipment is adequate enough to keep most (not all, some do die) fish alive during transport. They do recover and are caught again. like you told us to do (look up facts) and the fact of the matter is, culling doesn’t hurt the fishery. Tournaments don’t hurt the fishery.

I guess i’m still not sure where your hostility towards tourney anglers comes from. Please site your reasons, feel free to tell me if you think i’m arrogant and why? I just don’t get it?

So in closing, before you point the finger at us for “bashing you”, like i said in the beginning, re-read your posts and see how they come across.

You’re right. I came off a bit harsh and generalizing.

The “MY RIVER” comment was made because far too often that is the attitude of the tourny fisherman. Not all but some. Throw that kind of money into winning and it’s bound to happen. I’m not against fast boats and modern equipment. Heck, my boat will hold it’s own. She ain’t pretty but she goes. (and it’s not a bass boat!)

I know alot of the tourney guys are decent, considerate people and you’re right, some of the weekend warriors that come here are not. Some are slobs who litter the beach and shorelines leaving me to spend countless hours picking up trash or pulling my rod in when I’m out in my boat to chase down someone’s trash I see floating down the river.

Some are poachers but we have a pretty vigilant warden working this part of the river.

Like I said, I’m not against the tournaments. I am against the egos I see from some and I sure do not think it’s right to have special rules to appease them. I think the first non tourney angler busted for culling will have an awful good case for the courts.

This all a moot point anyway as I know there never will be a tourney on this part of the river.

Too many of you would be losing your lower units.

Wasn’t there just a post about being open minded???
You can attack it from any angle but in the end there is only 1 thing to be discussed. is this hurting the fishery and if so doe the cost to the fishery outweigh the benefit. Not for a select few but for the majority. Democracy at its best.
jc

That is not what AB623 is about. It’s about putting a certain group’s interests above the rest. For what?

Some chest thumping? You can’t fish a tourney without culling? Why?

Give me one good reason. Then tell me who’s being selfish.

Ray,

One more thing, don’t give up on being a staffer yet. I think as you spend more time hear, you’ll get to know us better as we will you. There really are a bunch of great guys on this site, and I think we all for the most part have a common goal! (To enjoy the essence that is….Fishing–little take from Nugent, but mixed up)

Granted things get heated sometimes, but we need both sides of issues to iron things out!!

One last thing on Culling..I think it’s hard for us sometimes because we see nearly every other state allowing it, w/o any real ill effects, and we ask ourselves, Well why can’t we?

Fish On!

Ray,

Part of what you’re saying is true, part is opinion, and part I’m having difficulty understanding the logic. I agree with you… some of what is considered “us” (tournament Bass fisherman) includes eeediots that have very little sense and don’t seem to employ it at the time you’d think it would matter the most hahahaha. On the other hand, every group of individuals has that portion of their population. I could say the same thing about resort owners that allow their customers to take quad limits daily and help them clean and stack the fish. I try not to include those eeediots as part of who I picture when I look at the group of resort owners out there. Most of us support resorts to the best of our ability and appreciate the hospitality and fishing wherewithall that we find talking to the owners.

This discussion is not really about tournament anglers or resort owners. Its about public policy and the economics of government. Heck … its not even about the fishery in many ways. I detest special interest groups pressing the buttons of government to create policy because it either supports the politician through campaign donations or the current government by revenue generation (additional cost of permit increases revenue and mark my words will be used as a rationalization to support the decision). It wouldn’t make a difference if I were for or against culling, this part of the equation remains the truth. PETA also influences the government and threatens the fishery. CAA (Campaign for the Abolition of Angling… yes type that into your search engine and read in shock at their activity) also influence the government and threaten the fishery. I just wish someone would look at the total picture first. In doing so one of the first thing we’d find is that we are the largest and most efficient predator so the first group to be controlled is us… we have a choice to either kill the entire fishery or support good management practice by educating the public and practicing what we preach… the best situation is balanced harvest and habitat preservation including water quality review. That all takes money… fisherman buy licenses, resort owners buy licenses, we pay taxes on all of our equipment and the land we own etc. etc. We’re actually on the same side of this with differing opinions.

I have mixed feeling about what you posted because I see a difference between the precautions taken Bass fishing and the precautions taken walleye fishing. Until recent years walleye tournaments had enourmous mortality. Your fears were justified. I read report after report until tournament circuits started requiring more sophisticated aeration systems and implemented dead fish penalties. So part of me hears exactly what you said. On the other hand, I paid to fish a walleye tournament where the DNR implemented no cull no release claiming that the high mortality of fish from tournaments on that particular body of water justified the determination. I raised my hand after scratching my head and said ” you mean that I can’t release the fish I kept alive because you believe a large portion “might” die?” The answer was “yes”… now that is pure stupidity. I walked away and forfieted the entry fee.

On the other hand… no cull does not mean no release… it means once livewelled you can’t release. It doesnt prevent anyone from gut hooking and releasing 70 walleyes and only welling their limit to kill to eat or take pictures of. The largest difference between catch and kill vs catch and release is you see the percent mortality of the tournament fish released… you don’t see all the fish taken in catch and kill cause they float in garbage cans after someone takes pictures and decides not to clean them or they are taken for food… 100 percent are dead in any case… they will not procreate… they will not provide the numbers to support the resorts or the tournaments in the future unless properly managed.

On this issue I support everyone’s ability to cull but it wouldn’t matter either way because I also believe we have an obligation to the water, the fishery, and to each other in the process. We should be able to discuss this rationally without getting defensive. If we ever were able to do that consistently we would become a very educated group about what makes the economy of fishing work as well as what is necessary to preserve the fishery. My gut hunch is that would require all of us… that we are intrinsically connected either because of our love of the water or the sometimes subtle trail of the money required to sustain what we love.

Long as we fight the groups that will cause us the greatest amount of damage will continue to move forward relatively unchallenged. My guess is that most of the folks that frequent the boards have never heard of the Campaign for Abolition of Angling in spite of how many times the group has attempted to influence Federal and State legislation.

Anywho… just the ramblings of someone who loves the water.

Curt

Interesting and heated discussion. I, for one, am for getting rid of the no-cull rule at least for bass fishing. I’m very happy that my home state doesn’t have it and I hope it never does. But I also understand that there are certainly many others out there that would disagree or agree with me. However, I WILL NOT argue my point by attacking someone’s opinion, only hope to understand their argument and maybe try to prove why I believe in mine.
Let me toss this scenario out… I started thinking about this and wondered what you guys thought. If you’re in a no-cull tournament, you catch your limit and are done fishing. You weigh in your fish and they are released. Isn’t that culling? I guess what I’m asking is once its in possession does it have to be kept and killed according to regulations? So if I fished a tournament in WI and weighed em in, they were released, and then I went out later that evening to catch some more for fun, would that be illegal? Maybe I’m completely out of touch with the no-cull rule, but I thought I’d throw it out for discussion.

The difference is these fish are sitting in a live well for God knows how long before being released. This lessens their chance for survival. Also, you do know that once that fish hits the livewell it counts as your bag limit. There is no throwing it back and starting over on your bag. That means no more than 5 bass can ever see the livewell, released or not, on any given day. How often will this be abused?
True, bass can handle it much better than other species.
Walleye cannot. My biggest concern is where does it stop?

This part of the river is known for walleye especially during the spring run. It’s the first dam coming up the river. They can’t go any further. They took a pounding in the past and “contests” were a part of it. Now we’re under one of the strictest limits in the state as a result and I am vehemently against the 18″ limit. Now I see people keeping a multitude of big fat pregnant females instead.
It makes me sick.

I just see it (culling) as an unecessary risk that opens the door for bad things to happen. All the research in the world cannot say with certainty whether a particular fish will survive after being in a live well for hours. Some will, some won’t.

When I’m out walleye fishing I decide right off if I want a few for the pan that day. I don’t always keep what I catch and release far more than I keep. I don’t stock my freezer. When I catch a legal I decide then and there if that one is going in the livewell. If it’s a badly hooked legal, it’s in the livewell if I’m looking for a meal that day.
Of course in that case I’m not looking to keep the biggest but rather the opposite. Once it’s in my livewell it is food. No turning back or changing my mind if I catch another.

This bill allowing tournament fishermen to cull just opens the door for everyone to cull. Alot of them won’t have the equipment you do to do this as successfully either or even care.

True alot of my guests want to keep everything they catch but I always try to influence their decision when I can. Last year one of them caught a 34 1/2 inch musky here. Barely legal. He brought it up to the shop and I quickly took his pic and talked him into releasing it. Yes, it was out of the water for awhile but I was able to revive it and I hope it survived.

As for all the fancy equipment the tournies help pay to innovate, is that really a good thing? Or does it help contribute to overfishing?
I wonder how my grandfather ever caught any fish yet alone the trophies he had on the wall without all the help anglers seem to need today in electronics and such.
Is all today’s technology really a good thing for the fisheries? Or just a good thing for the anglers?

Tounaments might improve business for the short term. Til a particular body of water gets hammered to death as a result.

18″ walleye limit is going to go state wide. What’s more, you’ll only be able to keep three fish. You can thank the DNR for that.

Culling? Finally! Let’s see… One Everstart or FLW on the Mississippi River in LaX… about 3 to 5 million will be brought into the local economy.

FLW also donates funds for fish hacheries, fish habitat and for LOCAL charities.

That’s all I got to say about that .

I don’t think the DNR is stupid enough to go 18″ state wide. That is the stupidest most counter productive thing they did here. Too many people keeping the big breeders now because it’s all they CAN keep. The little ones are a dime a dozen.

I can catch 20 to 30 a day here in the 15″-17″ range. What we need is the slot like the rest of the river above this dam. 20-28s go back. 1 above 28 for the wall. Leave the bag at 3. I don’t have a problem with that.

One more thing. The fact the tournaments wouldn’t come here simply because culling wasn’t allowed speaks volumes to me.

Pretty childish.

J.R. I made a few calls last night after spending more time on this great site than I have been at home. The leg. that was passed was for the sole purpose of regulating fishing tournaments! The article you refer to obviuosly “short sheeted” the entire leg. ruling. There seemed to be NOT one ounce of “special interest” consideration. The lawmakers KNOW that this is a very EMOTIONAL topic for all those involved. BASS has signed lucrative contract with Madison Wisc. and another site for the up-coming year. The original intent of controlling tournaments was as originally stated, “cleaning up an industry that has too many non compliant organizations”. The timing of this anouncement is not coincidental since the media blitz is about too begin for the BASS classic held in Charlotte, N.C. They will formally anounce 2005 sites for the trail. Most of the pro already know for planning purposes. I will be recieving of official copy of the law by Fed Ex. by Thurs. I will pass it on to J.C. for posting!! The other interesting “tid-bit” that was shared, centered upon the perception that fish mortality was diminished through “catch and release”. The “C” word flew up after a very large mortality problem in an Everstart at Lake Vermillion last year. Mn and Wisc. fisheries folks compared notes, and with the help of local fisherman retrieved “lots” of bellies. The conclusion was everything but “C”. Poor handling of the fish, to inproper holding containers to no stabilization trough. Wisc. did not want a black eye. So they legislated!!!!

The DNR is not really known as mental giants. A few Associates degrees and they’re the authority?

Seems we have something in common: A bait store.

I can understand how you’d consider FLW or BASS as behaving childishly, but why would they want to do business in an unfriendly business environment?

Are you aware that the boys at the FLW have been speaking with Sturgeon Bay, WI for years but Sturgeon Bay would rather not have them there?

Again, 3 to 5 million dollars brought into the local economy (bait shops, motels, eateries, gas, etc) is a substantial amount of money and business -repeat buiness I’d like to add.

Lastly, are you aware that the information behind the anticulling law that the DNR is supporting is outdated, incorrect and misleading? Demons in one’s head is no more the cause of headaches than culling is to a declining bass population, for if the latter were, I’d be possesed daily, and all the bass in Texas, Florida, Sturgeon Bay, WI, and Virginia would be gone, and to the contrary, we actually see thriving bass fisheries.

Thanks ,

I think the REAL question here is WHY is it an unfriendly enviroment.

A large portion of my business is repeat customers. I fail to see how the tournament anglers will bring me more money than the average fisherman already does.

Especially since they will not be buying their tackle from me or renting my boats. Stopping at Gander or Cabelas on the way does nothing for the little local guys on the water.

Sure I’d rent my cabins. But depending on when it is, I’d rent them anyway.

Unless of course I double the price of my cabins for them.

Start running my regulars off and I AM in trouble. I can’t speak for others but I’d venture a guess this is why people don’t want the tournaments.

You need to ask yourselves why that is. Why is it the general population looks at you this way? Then figure out how to fix it.

What you do for the economy isn’t everything. Especially when it could be shortlived. Leaving the locals to pick up the pieces.

I think we visit the local bait shops more than you think. Ask Scotty at Bob’s Bait if he gets more business the week of a tourney…Same for Dave/Joy at D&J Riversports….

Local bait shops will have more information on what is going on, and tourney guys will visit these places for that reason….and i bet the majority pick some things up while they are there…I know I do…I can rarely go anywhere that sells fishing equip. and not buy something..lol

Haha! Try being in one day in and day out and looking at all that equipment. It’s tough at times to not be eating up the profits!

I just have to try this new thingamajig out. lol

Ray, I am not quite sure how you can say it is going to hurt your business. I grew up fishing in the Sauk area and am a little confused. First of all the rvier were you are located has absolutely no pressure from tournament anglers. If you feel the fishing below the dam in town is on the decline it is from over harvest and not people culling their fish. I don’t think i have ever run into someone down there that had their limit of walleyes and then started culling fish. If anything this law will help the whole town of sauk and bring in some well needed economy. I say this because lake wisconsin is a premier bass body of water with plenty of water to hold large tournaments. These are the kinda of economical factors that the state needs and they have finally understood that. Maybe you would rather pay more taxes to help the economy. At the same time a large amount of the money spent on the sport goes back to funding stocking programs, fish habitat programs, and preserving the waters we have. You can claim the river to be yours, but without the rest of us you wouldn’t be making a living.

When a tounament comes to our town, I get at least 10 calls from anglers. That’s 10 more guys in the store.

Do Cabelas, Gander and Wallyworld know where the fish are bitting? Uh, no.

Repeat business? I stay at the same motels every year whether they’re located in WI or around the US. I also shop at the local bait shops when I’m in those towns. It’s just like when I find a good guide on those waters… I go back to him every year; hell, my guides usually have to die before I go lookin’ for another.

Who’s on the water more, a guy dippin’ minnows or a guy asking you for your zip code when you try to check out? Who’s information you going to want?

When I was in LaX, I stayed with Slop Bass. We ONLY shopped the local bait stores. Why? ’cause that’s were all the good, current info, fishermen and tackle that works are.

I had the chance to run into a few big names who tend to win often. They found out that I fish some water that they wanted to know. When I asked them why in the hell they’d want to know anything that I’d have to tell’em, they told me “’cause you’re out there all the time.”

People will seek Ray out rather than Mary Jane Rottencrot-chainstore ’cause Ray is on the water and so is his place.

Thanks ,

The reason for the tournament anglers being allowed to cull is that all of the fish you catch that day will be RELEASED. The tournament organizations require this.

The fish are not leaving the tournament waters and the fisherman have no control over the fish after they are weighed in.

The tournament anglers use artifical baits so there are very few gut hooked fish like in using live bait.

Knowledge of new techniques and tackle comes with knowledge of taking better care of the fish.

Ignorance destroys and knowledge preserves.

Here is an example of ignorance, there is a barber in Prairie du Chien that catchs and fillets bass to feed his cat just to spite the bass fisherman.

BigD, Here is a quote from the article,”The bill also contains a daily bag limit exemption for BASS TOURNAMENTS.
Currently anglers must release a fish immediately after catching so it won’t count against the bag limit.
Under the new bill, anglers may cull fish to increase the weight of their limit.”

After reading all this, even though I disagree with Ray, I am tipping my hat to him He has courage and conviction. Gotta like that. He’s not so different than the rest of us. He’s just on the other side of the equation and he’s demonstrating pretty clearly to me he’s willing to share those feelings straight up. So… we may disagree Ray but you have my respect for saying what you believe needed to be said.

One more thing… I’m not a suck up. If I thought you were a dogfish I’d say it hahaha. I just honor honest expression when I see it.

Curt

Remember, culling fish means the fish in the boat will be released sooner and the new fish will spend less time in the livewell. Unless you limit out on 4lbers and weigh-in while waiting for the rest of the less fortunate.

Thanks Curt. I’m sure I would get along just fine with the majority of you here and I really don’t think we’re that different.
It’s certainly not that I dislike the people fishing the tournaments. I may dislike some of the things some of them do in the name of money.
I just have concerns that I don’t believe are totally unfounded. I hope you prove me wrong.

Spend a day in the boat with me and I bet we have a lot in common.

J.R. B.A.S.S. Elite 50 Madison Wisc. 2005 (special interest group)??? FLW is being tight Lipped but there will be one sometime 2005 in Wisc.