Wolves in the Backyard

B-man,
I hunted deer for a few years literally straight west of you on the east side of 23 off the Wild Valley road. This was about 8-10 years ago now, and there were plenty of wolves roaming those woods back then. Was tough sledding to try and get any deer (went 0 for 4 years and moved locations)

I live just inside Cloquet city limits and have wolves here (next door neighbors small dog got taken down years ago) and we see their tracks about every time I walk down the snowmobile/atv trail next to our place. And when we walk or ski the trails on the west loop at Pine Valley we’ve seen wolves on trails there, and tracks are common on the maintained/groomed trail in winter.

Funny you saw one this morning, as my son and I headed up to Red on Monday morning for the day, and had one cross in front of us on Hwy 2 just past Brookston. Good luck up there, we went out of JR’s and had decent luck and some nice “overs” about 3.5 miles out.

As a city slicker who occasionally gets up north between Bemidji and Grand Rapid on a family property, have had multiple wolf sightings the past few years. Agreed they need to be managed, not eliminated.

Reef W wrote:

Their governors just grew a pair, it has nothing to do with the Northern Rocky Mountain wolf population not being protected under the ESA

And how did that come about? Some Governor’s with commercial ranch lobbyists behind them got them removed, despite FAR fewer wolf #’s and territory than they have always had here. Let alone what the wolf population and territory has grown to in MN/WI now.

Why did the wolf cross the road?

To eat all of B-Man’s deer!

I think they need to stock wolves in parts of MN and WI to thin out the overgrown deer populations. Iowa even more so.

BigWerm wrote:

And how did that come about? Some Governor’s with commercial ranch lobbyists behind them got them removed, despite FAR fewer wolf #’s and territory than they have always had here. Let alone what the wolf population and territory has grown to in MN/WI now.

So they got delisted because of the governors there but also got delisted in MN in 2012 and 2020, until overturned, because of… not the governor here? Whatever supports your narrative I guess.

B-man wrote:

FinnyDinDin, we live right on the edge where 30,000+/- acres of forested land meets thousands of acres of agriculture.

Our property literally is the edge, half hardwoods and half ag. It should be a deer hunter’s paradise, but we’re in area 183.

Do they do regular clear cuts in the forested area? Old woods plus ag land does not equal deer. If the ag fields are pasture, it does not equal deer.

All I know is I live in a wolf and deer rich area in northeast MN. One of my best buds hunts county forest in WI with lots of deer and lots of wolves. Both areas have regular logging making good habitat. My cabin is on the edge of Chippewa National Forest. Most of it has very little deer due to no logging. The areas that have logging have deer. My cabin neighbor shoots nice deer every year because they move to good habitat with good deer numbers. The other neighbor down the road complains about poor deer numbers and blame the wolves and they are the guys that sit in the same permanent stand for the past 20-40 years in old forest.

Deer populations will thrive in wolf country if the habitat is good. Most of the deer habitat in wolf country is pretty crummy.

I hope they can get a season opened up for wolves. The courts have made a mockery of the endangered species program. My guess is if they do you aren’t going to see some huge explosion of deer in your area. Hopefully I am wrong.

I find it strange with all the posts about wolves killing off the deer, that there are no photos of any wolf killed deer or kill site. Maybe it’s something like the guy catching all the big fish, but you never see any visual proof.

I was gonna go big game hunting in Alaska next fall. Then I heard there is a wolf pack up there. I canceled the trip, figure all the big game will be eaten by then.

Here’s a couple Kraig.
The one on the road was killed by wolves. That is the Ash River trail, right near multiple resorts and cabins.
The other was a young buck we passed on multiple times in November 23 only to find it eaten 1 week after gun season. Aitkin county south of McGregor.

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Reef W wrote:

So they got delisted because of the governors there but also got delisted in MN in 2012 and 2020, until overturned, because of… not the governor here? Whatever supports your narrative I guess.

Federal law is like having your football team get away with a blatant penalty no-call in the 4th quarter. It’s great when it works in your favor and when it doesn’t, it’s because somebody’s crooked. It’s just like the constant calls for the Governor and the DNR to “do something” about the Indian treaty rights.

We had our first reliable sightings of wolves about 25 years ago east of Hinckley where my farm is. I’ve had wolves on trail cams consistently for over 10 years now. The deer have done what the deer have done since time began, they have learned to avoid the wolves to the maximum extent possible. Sometimes it’s very easy for them like last winter, sometimes it’s very difficult like the winter before.

One thing that is often forgotten is that roughly the northern third of MN historically was not the range of the whitetail deer at all. There were almost no whitetail at all north of present-day Cloquet. Historically, this was the range of the woodland caribou. It was only after European settlement and the subsequent changes of the habitat through logging and fire that made this part of the state into habitat that would support whitetail. So the idea that somehow this range should naturally support huge numbers of whitetail is just not accurate from a historical point of view. Having whitetail all the way to the border is only possible with a combination of high volumes of habitat creation and warm winters that minimize winter kill.

crawdaddy wrote:

I was gonna go big game hunting in Alaska next fall. Then I heard there is a wolf pack up there. I canceled the trip, figure all the big game will be eaten by then.

I know you’re being sarcastic, but I’ll be mathematic. The wolf density is FAR LESS IN ALASKA than it is here.

Almost like it’s balanced there….

Check out that map I posted on page 2 to get started.

Alaska has 310,250,000 million acres of wolf habitat (85% of the state) with 9,000+/- wolves = 40,555 acres per wolf.

Minnesota has 18,560,000 million acres of wolf habitat ÷ 3,000+/- wolves = 6,186 acres per wolf.

Which means Minnesota has a wolf density SIX AND A HALF TIMES HIGHER THAN ALASKA.

Read that twice. Hell, read it six and a half more times to let it truly sink in.

Alaska is as close to undisturbed nature (natural) as it gets.

So just “maybe” our wolf density should more closely match the more natural balance found there????

If we cut our population in half tomorrow, we’d still have over three times the density of Alaska.

I’m not a biologist or statistician, but some fifth grade math and personal anecdotes agree that parts of Minnesota ecology could be better balanced.

I couldn’t find anything more recent than 2018 on the wolf range in Minnesota than this map. I assume they’ve gone just about as far south as they can, where the main timber line meets the ag in the central part of the state and then angles northwestward.

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LOL A tree fell down in the woods and someone says it did not happen because they did not post a picture ?? Now that a special kind of funny !

crawdaddy wrote:

I was gonna go big game hunting in Alaska next fall. Then I heard there is a wolf pack up there. I canceled the trip, figure all the big game will be eaten by then.

You left something out , Alaskans hunt and trap wolves as often as they can, upwards of 1300 a year ! Nice try lol

There is no way MN, WI, Alaska or any other state has any idea how many wolves there are in their state. Last time they had a wolf season in wi it was pretty clear the wi dnr’s estimate is way way low based on how quick the quota was filled.

They should be hunted and managed. If we want to get rid of lots of them we should let people run them with dogs as that is by far the most effective method.

If they have a season don’t expect the deer populations to magically explode. There are a lot more to deer numbers than predation by wolves. Plenty of places with lots of wolves and lots of deer. Plenty of places with no wolves and very few deer. Common denominator is habitat.

gim wrote:

I couldn’t find anything more recent than 2018 on the wolf range in Minnesota than this map. I assume they’ve gone just about as far south as they can, where the main timber line meets the ag in the central part of the state and then angles northwestward.

News reports last year had a pack near Carlos Avery.

Bottom line,a few need to be shot,trapped,or run over.I hope you drive a little faster B-man.

Best bumper sticker in Alaska. EAT MOOSE! 10,000 Wolves Can’t Be Wrong. Second best bumper sticker is in Idaho. Idaho Wolves. Smoke A Pack A Day.

AK Guy wrote:

Best bumper sticker in Alaska. EAT MOOSE! 10,000 Wolves Can’t Be Wrong. Second best bumper sticker is in Idaho. Idaho Wolves. Smoke A Pack A Day.

For those that haven’t seen the documented impacts of reintroducing wolves into Yellowstone and how it positively impacted the entire ecosystem, this is worth a watch. I’m not saying wolves aren’t a problem, but theres a bigger picture than just the point of view of some deer hunters.

TheFamousGrouse wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Reef W wrote:</div>
So they got delisted because of the governors there but also got delisted in MN in 2012 and 2020, until overturned, because of… not the governor here? Whatever supports your narrative I guess.

Federal law is like having your football team get away with a blatant penalty no-call in the 4th quarter. It’s great when it works in your favor and when it doesn’t, it’s because somebody’s crooked. It’s just like the constant calls for the Governor and the DNR to “do something” about the Indian treaty rights.

We had our first reliable sightings of wolves about 25 years ago east of Hinckley where my farm is. I’ve had wolves on trail cams consistently for over 10 years now. The deer have done what the deer have done since time began, they have learned to avoid the wolves to the maximum extent possible. Sometimes it’s very easy for them like last winter, sometimes it’s very difficult like the winter before.

One thing that is often forgotten is that roughly the northern third of MN historically was not the range of the whitetail deer at all. There were almost no whitetail at all north of present-day Cloquet. Historically, this was the range of the woodland caribou. It was only after European settlement and the subsequent changes of the habitat through logging and fire that made this part of the state into habitat that would support whitetail. So the idea that somehow this range should naturally support huge numbers of whitetail is just not accurate from a historical point of view. Having whitetail all the way to the border is only possible with a combination of high volumes of habitat creation and warm winters that minimize winter kill.

Very well said Grouse.

If we want to see the whitetail population increase in Northern MN, we should eliminate their number one predator: humans.

Also, B-man that map you keep referring to is roughly 12 years old. Tis a lil dated.

Gitchi Gummi wrote:

For those that haven’t seen the documented impacts of reintroducing wolves into Yellowstone and how it positively impacted the entire ecosystem, this is worth a watch:

This video, and the others like it, are nothing more than biased trash propaganda. Here’s an actual study:
https://esajournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ecm.1598

And Gitch I mostly agree with what you’ve posted, just those “wolves saved yellowstone” videos always drive me nuts.

The Wolf Debate is a hot one every time lol I guess B-Man wanted a spicy Christmas. Next time can we at least establish the rule that everyone needs to post their home latitude, so we know who has the best opinions real world perspective. Like any other good measuring contest, higher number wins… Establish a pecking order of sorts ya know.

News reports last year had a pack near Carlos Avery.

There are quite a few wolves in the sartell st Stephen area. My wife heard one howl one night when taking the dog out. The dog froze and she had to pick him up to get him inside. The very next day I saw one in the field behind our house. A week earlier several friends saw a black one in a field across from upper deck where we get our sweet corn. This was within an eigth mile of the one I saw but mine was brown. I have friends that live around sherburne and they showed me picks of wolves by their house almost 20 years ago already.

Perspective isn’t “I live up north and I haven’t seen any deer this year so the wolves are to blame.”

Next time someone that lives north of 694 makes a comment on a city issue can I summarily dismiss their opinion just because of where they live?

What a tired narrative.

Matt Moen wrote:

Perspective isn’t “I live up north and I haven’t seen any deer this year so the wolves are to blame.”

Next time someone that lives north of 694 makes a comment on a city issue can I summarily dismiss their opinion just because of where they live?

What a tired narrative.

Sorry if it wasn’t clear, but I was being 100% sarcastic. I appreciate your input Matt, and I completely agree with you about that tired narrative

My bad…my sarcasm meter must be down this morning.

Maybe I’m just mad because every time I try to quote someone on this frickin’ website my comment never shows up.

Lol no worries. And for reference here’s the actual super-duper official map of whose opinions matter on different topics

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Its always the folks within the 612/651 area that determine what’s best for the rest of the state.
I think Wolves are good provided their numbers are held within check. A few years ago a Kittson County Sheriff in NW MN shared a very nice video about the wolves in their area. Number of cattle killed, number of wolves trapped/relocated, killed, etc following confirmed kills. He also stated that in order for the farmer to receive restitution was to find a confirmed kill via a carcass. I havent read every post here maybe its been shared already, but here is a news article referencing it.

Woah Woah Woah there tswoboda. Links to scholarly articles is one thing, but the use of latitude to determine “Up North”ness is unacceptable.