Are Tipdowns illegal in MN?

Im having a healthy debate with a friend.

No. As long as it doesn’t set the hook automatically.

I always assumed that tipdowns were spring loaded but apparently not.

None of the tipdown designs I have seen use a spring loaded system….all use balance alone to indicate the bite……the same as a deadstick….
Jaw Jackers use the rod as a spring to set the hook…

The types I use…..

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So my biggest question is WHY are devices like an automatic fisherman illegal in MN. Doesn’t make sense to me. Less swallowed hooks I would think.

Has anybody heard a good explanation why these are illegal?

The DNR thinking makes no sense. Just like taking 20 years to legalize quick strike for large bait. IT actually prevented hurting the fish from swallowed hooks. Younger guys on this board may not remember but tip up were illegal till 1982
I believe. Down rigger are legal they keep a bend in the rod so when fish strikes and pulls line from the clip the long rod pops up keeping tension on fish or setting the hook. Absolutely no difference from automatic fisherman jaw jacker etc. Rod is bent down same as down rigger, fish pulls line from release rod pups up. 0 difference. These device are like quick strike rig allowing fish to be hooked in the mouth without swallowing bait. Even crawler harness were illegal but not enforced until quick strikes were allowed. Thus allowing harness. They just choose not to enforce.

Mwal

The question I always ask – and have never heard a reasonable answer to is “How is an automatic fisherman or jaw jacker any different than a downrigger?”

Both use a release mechanism to release the energy of a loaded rod in order to remove slack, set the hook, and indicate a bite. Downriggers are standard accepted equipment, automatic fiaherman are taboo….yet they function on the exact same premise…..

**EDIT**. typing same time as mwal….

Gents, convenient points, but your are leaving out a couple things;

1) JawJacker and downriggers are not ‘exactly’ the same by 90 degrees: the downrigger does typically have the rod bent over and when the line is pulled from the release it does take up slack. However, the line is trailing behind the boat and 90 degrees away from the rod; not a direct ‘hook setting’ device that ‘hooks fish with a spring device’ as the statute says. I have fished extensively with downriggers, and it still requires a hook set in most cases. At typical downriggers depths, a quick trigonometric figuring would show that much of the time the amount of slack taken up by the bend in the rod is equal to or less than the change in the distance between the lure and the point of tension (the release before the strike and the rod after the strike) hence no auto hook set. It is legit to argue that it is very similar, but if so then you could also take it one step farther and say that trolling with a rod that bends also utilizes a spring-like device to hook a fish. This is a whole lot of hootenanny and gibberish, and so brings us to a more simpler point…

2) It is legal/illegal because that’s what the law says. Similar to the debate over deer baiting and food plots, the law specifically prohibits one and not the other. Very similar, yes, but not the same or it would apply.

This brings up a good point; don’t empower the DNR any more than you need to. These laws are passed by the elected state legislature. The DNR gives input, but it is an administrative agency and not a law making body. Sometimes they get what they want, other times they don’t. The only regulations they get to ‘make up’ are those which the Legislature has empowered them to make. Want something different in the law, organize and speak up. If you look at the state statute that prohibits the taking of fish with a spring device (97c.325) you will also find that the law specifically empowers the DNR Commissioner to authorize a recoil device for ice fishing, a la Jaw Jacker. I have used these in neighboring states, and I think there is a very legitimate argument to be made for their use and less swallowed hooks, but that argument needs to be made to the right people, not among those of similar thought.

Someone should bring their down rigger on the ice, set the ball next to the hole and attach a light clip to it. Drop your bait down, load the rod, put it in the holder and let it be!! I would love to see a pic of that. Personally I have no opinion on the issue but would point out there is potential issues that by definition the person opperating the down rigger on water has to be with in 20 ish feet at all times. Potential there is a fear these rigs on ice may not be attended as closely. To make the point, I’ve seen a few “flags” that I couldn’t even find the owner.
To the point above about the angle of riggers, if I had a solid hook set every time one fired, I would only run riggers on my boat! The amount of line “arch” between the tip and the ball can be significant when going beyond 30 ft or using light clips making this trickier than advertised. This is why a “slider” doesn’t go all the way down.

Open bail devices like ifishpro, ice rigger, and finicky foolers are your best option to fish a rod and reel and be legal in MN. Personally, I prefer setting the hook myself, that’s half the excitement of using a rod and reel. I’ve been using the foolers with their new hole covers. Best system I’ve found yet!

What even is the argument for why these are illegal? Less gut hooked fish sounds like a win to me.

iTinker wrote:

What even is the argument for why these are illegal? Less gut hooked fish sounds like a win to me.

It’s MN,that’s why.No different than a drain plug left in on a totally open boat that is dry as the Sahara desert.It still is a good fine I heard.

Perfectly legal in MN. Mudshark that’s a pic of one of my older Wood Frame Tip Downs. I only make them out of PVC now, same design but no more getting wet or sticking to the ice.

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iTinker wrote:

What even is the argument for why these are illegal? Less gut hooked fish sounds like a win to me.

Cause we are on a higher ethical plateau and like lots of regulations and higher taxes. Keeps our self esteem up through the long cold winter’s, while hoping someday we can out regulate and out tax California. We are proud to be Calisota.

icenutz wrote:

Perfectly legal in MN. Mudshark that’s a pic of one of my older Wood Frame Tip Downs. I only make them out of PVC now, same design but no more getting wet or sticking to the ice.

Nothing better.

We got a pile from you and they are still in perfect condition.

Have them drying out. Awesome tipdowns!!

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riverruns,

Thanks for the compliment, the PVC works just as well and no drying them out. Glad you like them, I see someone in the Eau Claire area is now copying my PVC design.

Guess I shouldn’t of moved back to the eastern side of the state!

Sorry to resurrect a old thread but are there any petitions/movements that one could support, which are focused on getting tools like the Jaw Jacker legalized in MN? I’ve seen them in use and was very impressed by both their effectiveness and consistency mouth hooking fish.

I wish IDO would take this on.

Joe K wrote:

Sorry to resurrect a old thread but are there any petitions/movements that one could support, which are focused on getting tools like the Jaw Jacker legalized in MN? I’ve seen them in use and was very impressed by both their effectiveness and consistency mouth hooking fish.

iTinker wrote:

I wish IDO would take this on.

If this is important to you, be the leader, start a movement and run with it.