Are Electric Cars Feasible in the Midwest?

Aren’t most you guys using battery powered augers nowadays?

Seems slightly hypocritical to go with a battery power on things like augers but complain that EVs have no use or future.

Just sayin’

John Rasmussen wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Reef Whooligan wrote:</div>
All that matters is if it’s better than the alternative or not.

Well is it? I don’t think anyone has all the answers on EV. There is no doubt they still have a large carbon footprint if that’s what it is all about. Is it more or less than a gas vehicle I am not sure yet. Someone may already know the answer and likely wouldn’t share it since there are a lot of people and money invested in EV.

An EV has a bigger carbon footprint to manufacture than an ICE car but there’s been tons of studies that show it’s almost always lower over the lifetime of the vehicles. It depends on many things like how the electricity is generated… In the NW with a lot of hydropower the lifetime emissions are much lower overall. On the other end, in West Virginia where most of the power comes from coal the gap is lower and it’s been found that a hybrid could beat EVs but they are still both better than plain ICE.

gim wrote:

Aren’t most you guys using battery powered augers nowadays?

Seems slightly hypocritical to go with a battery power on things like augers but complain that EVs have no use or future.

Just sayin’

And some of them have even used flashlights with batteries since the 60’s !!! Bad comparison, does not make them hypocritical.

gim wrote:

Aren’t most you guys using battery powered augers nowadays?

Seems slightly hypocritical to go with a battery power on things like augers but complain that EVs have no use or future.

Just sayin’

I think the point was practicality. If the battery needs to be warm to work/charge, easier to warm a battery off a drill/auger in my coat than a car battery…

Baitwaster wrote:

I think the point was practicality. If the battery needs to be warm to work/charge, easier to warm a battery off a drill/auger in my coat than a car battery…

That is not how these battery warmers work. They are integrated into the car and work automatically when the temp hits a certain threshold.

big_g wrote:

And some of them have even used flashlights with batteries since the 60’s !!! Bad comparison, does not make them hypocritical.

Haha. Good point.

The only direction I was trying to go on this is that things have changed in the auger world. It didn’t happen over night. Its not going to happen overnight in the EV realm either.

Battery technology will improve with EVs and so will our infrastructure. Its just not there yet though.

At the end of the day if the government is shoving it down our throats and telling us it’s the answer and heavily subsidizing the ev, Solar, wind market it’s probably not a great a idea. Just imo…

Schwieters Chevrolet does.
[/quote] ireckon if there selling the stuff they would,

People probably laughed at Henry Ford too. The gas station/refinery infrastructure wasn’t in place. Why buy gas when your horse can graze for free? Will electric vehicles be as good as gas? Maybe someday certainly not now.

My wife and I put on a combined 15000 miles a year. We have a heated garage and 2 other gas vehicles. I was concerned about wear and tear on our vehicles with all short trips. We had ordered an EV but canceled it. I still wasn’t ready to jump in.

gregory wrote:

At the end of the day if the government is shoving it down our throats and telling us it’s the answer and heavily subsidizing the ev, Solar, wind market it’s probably not a great a idea. Just imo…

But if they told you you couldnt do it you’d be totally down right?

Reef W wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>grubson wrote

So what? Is your argument that they aren’t perfect? Nobody ever said they were. All that matters is if it’s better than the alternative or not.

Are they better?
How do you feel about slave labor and toxic waste?

Riverrat wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>gregory wrote:</div>
At the end of the day if the government is shoving it down our throats and telling us it’s the answer and heavily subsidizing the ev, Solar, wind market it’s probably not a great a idea. Just imo…

But if they told you you couldnt do it you’d be totally down right?

There is a difference in making a choice and a mandate.

There’s thousands of EV’s in the Twin Cities, and I haven’t heard of a similar problem happening at scale here. So I’d say they are feasible for most of the masses. And they may never be feasible for the outdoorsperson who goes way off grid. Meanwhile I can’t wait to run my gas auger, and electric snowblower!

So reading a few articles on the issue in Chicago. Its sounds like you need to run the car to warm the batteries ( Unless the car is parked in a heated place ) so if I get this correct. You need to run the car ( Thus depleting the batteries of Power ) just so that you can then charge the batteries back up. That sure seems like a great situation if you are someone who benefits from use of the chargers.
They may at someplace become the norm, but as of now I’m not ready to join the ranks.

Fishthumper, running the car may be necessary for some of the EVs, but not all. As I mentioned earlier, my son’s Bolt does it automatically while it is parked. Those idiots in Chicago let their batteries go down to less than 20% in many cases. That was their own fault.

John Rasmussen wrote:

Well is it? I don’t think anyone has all the answers on EV. There is no doubt they still have a large carbon footprint if that’s what it is all about. Is it more or less than a gas vehicle I am not sure yet. Someone may already know the answer and likely wouldn’t share it since there are a lot of people and money invested in EV.

My great-grandpa said essentially the same thing about the automobile replacing the horse. The first time somebody pulled up to the feed store in a pickup, he told my grandpa that they were novel toys for the rich, but he couldn’t see them ever being practical for anyone but the town-dweller. Hmmm, where have we heard…

History doesn’t repeat, it rhymes. Where does the EV technology go? Absolutely nobody can tell.

Like everything else in history, when viewed in the rearview mirror, everything seems to be so pre-ordained–it was always obvious what was going to happen. Well, it isn’t that way now and wasn’t that way then. If you went back to 1907 and told a room full of men that they were fools for keeping their outmoded horses and that in just a few short years almost all of them would be driving automobiles, you’d have been laughed out of the room. I’ve even seen newspaper articles that wondered well into the nineteen-teens when the novelty of the automobile would wear off so we could get back to normal.

Whatever we end up driving, the thing I know for sure is that our grandchildren will look at us with disbelief that we couldn’t see clearly where all this was going to end up.

CaptainMusky wrote:

Those idiots in Chicago let their batteries go down to less than 20% in many cases. That was their own fault.

LOL that sounds about right for Shitcago.

CaptainMusky wrote:

Those idiots in Chicago let their batteries go down to less than 20% in many cases. That was their own fault.

Gas vehicles can have similar problems when it is this cold out and there is not enough gas in the tank. The gas line will freeze and the car won’t start. I always keep at least a half tank in my vehicle when it is below 0. They would not have this problem if they keep the battery over 50% charged. Yes this reduces the mileage range the battery can go. The same thing happens with the truck when you only use half of the tank.

Nobody’s great grandpa was mandated to turning his horse in for a gas powered vehicle. Again… forcing/mandating something. I am not saying EV’s don’t have a time and place, it’s just not feasible for the Midwest for these versions at this time. They were all over Maui and the only issue there is the price of electricity is very high and the grid is not sufficient for everyone to have one.

big_g wrote:

I am not saying EV’s don’t have a time and place, it’s just not feasible for the Midwest for these versions at this time. They were all over Maui and the only issue there is the price of electricity is very high and the grid is not sufficient for everyone to have one.

Agreed

CaptainMusky wrote:

Fishthumper, running the car may be necessary for some of the EVs, but not all. As I mentioned earlier, my son’s Bolt does it automatically while it is parked. Those idiots in Chicago let their batteries go down to less than 20% in many cases. That was their own fault.

So on your sons car I assume it uses batter power to also warm his batteries. Once again its using power from that batteries that at some point you need to replace. It just seems odd to me that you need to use battery power to do something that then requires you to spend $ to replace the power.
As far as Chicago goes, or any other large city for that matter, There are large populations that do not have a heated garage to keep their autos in.

Yes it does consume battery power to warm or cool the batteries but it’s negligible. He doesn’t charge it every night and says the next morning the range may be down like 10 miles.

The vehicles I own are tools. I use different tools for different jobs.

Would an EV be suitable for where I live and what I use my trucks for most days? No. I’m not ready for an EV plow truck, an EV that tows multiple days a week or runs on field roads, or anything of that sort.

Would an EV work out fine in SE MN for my wife running to her work or maybe even on us for trips up to the cities or family vacations that don’t involve towing a boat or tritoon? Probably. A buddy of mine works in sales in the Twin Cities and the company he works for just went to EVs for their fleet. He was of the same mindset of most people here, but after a few months has said that it was logical for their business and they haven’t had any major issues.

When we built in 2021-2022 we had the garage wired accordingly for an EV if we chose down the road. Keep in mind we are people that tow things, live in a very rural area, own ag land, hunt/fish and all of that. It’s not likely to be a 100% thing in my lifetime for how we live, but there are going to be applications where it will eventually make sense.

In my opinion things aren’t perfectly set up for EVs yet nor should they ever be forced on people, but they definitely aren’t going away. I do get a kick out of the people who live in suburbia and are adamant that “EVs will never work for me” when they drive blacktop roads 100% of the time and they base their opinion on the few times a year they pull their boat to a cabin or something of that nature. Ironically those are some of the first people where the economics of EVs will work in their favor.

Riverrat wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>gregory wrote:</div>
At the end of the day if the government is shoving it down our throats and telling us it’s the answer and heavily subsidizing the ev, Solar, wind market it’s probably not a great a idea. Just imo…

But if they told you you couldnt do it you’d be totally down right?

Nope, we had a storm go through just a couple years ago, guess what no power for days. So how exactly is one supposed to function with a ev? I had neighbors doing laundry at my place. As I had a generator running. You can siphon gas from other machines, kinda hard to siphon electricity…

Two reasons why I don’t see me owning a Electric auto anytime soon are:

Like Bucky and many others here, I use my truck often for towing and going places when finding a place to plug it in are not likely. As of this time, I think it would be impossible, or nearly so to tow a boat to the two places we go each year in Canada. The range on Tow vehicles are just not there yet nor charging location on the route.

My second reason is that the government is in far more overall control of the electrical situation than they are the gas situation. They could choose to limit it or turn it off completely as almost any time. Yes I know – Adjust my tin foil hat. I just don’t want my life to be controlled by something the government has that much control of.

IMO hybrids are the way to go for almost anyone. Unfortunately there are limited options especially for a truck or SUV. I actually don’t think there’s a truck made that is a hybrid besides the new tundra. The Silverado and Sierra or even the Hummer ev have a long range. Longer than a tank of gas in many trucks. But as you said how do you charge it on trips to Canada. The Ford lightning EV has been a complete failure.

i am not mandated to buy an electric vehicle and neither is anyone else on this site.

phishingruven wrote:

i am not mandated to buy an electric vehicle and neither is anyone else on this site.

For now anyway. There are a ton of things now mandated that once were not. you only need to look at Calf. to see some of those things.

phishingruven wrote:

i am not mandated to buy an electric vehicle and neither is anyone else on this site.

They’ll drop off your mandatory purchase notice when they come confiscate your gas stove

From what I’ve read the consensus is that it’s best to have a heated garage if you’re an EV owner.

So….to make an electric vehicle reliable and feasible in the Midwest you must use/burn energy 24/7/150 days a year just for storage correct???

Where does the heat/energy come from to heat that space??

The large majority of people in the Midwest currently DO NOT have a heated space for vehicles (because it’s not necessary)

What uses less energy?

A cold gasoline vehicle burning what it needs for locomotion?

Or heating hundreds of square feet for an EV, then charging it with fairy dust for it to move?

Where’s the tipping point if you’re using X amount of propane, natural gas or electricity for a heated space to “save the environment”?