Are Electric Cars Feasible in the Midwest?

Interesting article

https://www.fox4news.com/news/dead-teslas-oak-brook?utm_campaign=trueanthem&utm_medium=trueanthem&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR2uy_FOymGgKBSVd33BPFOsl-Naxl39T7fdERa50F9GmO1QFotPGzN4RK0

They make a ton of sense if you charge them at home. My wife’s car rarely leaves the 100 mile radius of home so it would make perfect sense with a home level 2 charger. Would almost never need to charge on the road.

Saw this coming from a long way away. Guess Tesla owners will have to buy a large pop up hut with a big buddy to warm up their cars so they can charge them. Boss said he has not had any problems. But he parks in a heated garage at home and at work. Other co-worker parks outside at the office and is having charging issues. He is working from home today because of issues.

So, You have to pre-condition the battery in order for it to charge. In this case, pre-conditioning means heating the battery up. How exactly is that going to work if the vehicles battery is low or dead? It takes a large amount of current to operate a heating element. Especially an element big enough to heat that big battery.

The simple answer is no, they are not at this point feasible in cold climates. Unless you have nothing but short trips and a heated garage to store it in you’re bound to end up in that situation eventually.

For my wife who works at home and has a heated garage it would probably work out fine. We also have a son that is an electrician who could install the charger. She rarely has a trip more than 100 miles. Her 2021 suv has 22,000 miles on it, so it is possible. We have no intention of buying one, but it is possible.

Wouldn’t it be the same concept of Marine lithium batteries? The BMS has a sensor that prevents them from charging at low temps. Evidently these Tesla cars don’t have built in heating on the batteries when they are plugged in and the battery is warmed up before it takes a charge.

As for owning one. If I lived in a suburb, heated garage and rarely traveled I think they would be practical. However with hunting and fishing in multiple states a year it makes no sense for me to own one.

Seems fine if you have an insulated garage and are just using it to run around and commute daily. There’s alot of metro people that have summer houses in this area and several keep their Teslas in the garage at their condo until spring and they seem to come back fine. Summer comes and the number of Teslas on the road increases 10 fold.

grubson wrote:

The simple answer is no, they are not at this point feasible in cold climates. Unless you have nothing but short trips and a heated garage to store it in you’re bound to end up in that situation eventually.

I agree with this. Unless you have a heated garage to park it, leaving it outside for extended periods of time in the winter here is a recipe for disaster. I assume almost all EV owners here have a warm spot for them when not being used.

This is actually a big reason I went with a hybrid instead of a full EV. It runs on a mixture of gasoline and EV power. Bought this hybrid SUV in November and haven’t really experienced bitter cold temps with it until now. I can see the “miles until empty” dropping every time I fill it up though. It’s gone from 600+ to about 500 at this point. But I was kind of expecting this too.

When they can completely do everything a gasoline or Diesel can. I will consider 1.

My son’s bolt EV heats and cools the battery. It does it automatically so he doesnt have to do anything. I just told him to make sure he maintains a good amount of charge in it to avoid range issue, but since he drives 3 miles to work and can charge it there he hasnt had any issues.

Article is pretty unclear what the actual issue is. There have definitely been reports of superchargers themselves being unreliable in cold weather but it could also be that the battery warmer won’t run if they ran battery too low.

The way it usually works in Teslas is when you navigate to a charging location it starts the preconditioning which is heating the battery. Supercharging needs the battery to be be about 115° for full rate but will charge slower at lower temps. To charge at all though, slowly, it needs to get up to a minimum temp which maybe takes an hour from cold in those temps. It’s important to charge at the end of trip for this reason, not wake up to a cold car and head to the local charger.

If you charge at home the temperature doesn’t really matter because it can stay plugged in so long. Level 1 (120v) might not be able to heat battery to minimum temp if it’s cold enough but level 2 (240v) will in temps much colder than this.

Sounds like I would get a skateboard first.

Sounds like a new northern WI/MN/MI yard ornament in the winter.

IMO………..NO….there not feasable…anywhere yet. i have yet to see a charging station….anywhere….infrasructure is not anywhere’s close to handle them.

then the whole idea of electric vehicles is to go green, correct? what happens to expired batteries when there toast…..yep green alright!!!

glenn57 wrote:

i have yet to see a charging station….anywhere…

Depends where you live or course and everyone with an EV can charge at home.

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I am not ready for an EV but I have a few co-workers and friends (all pretty green) that love them. All are parked in garages at their home or cabins.

If you are moving, it is not cheap to run a new charging line into your garage. Electrician rates have increased significantly.

On the battery front. EV batteries are recycled/recovered in that they can be torn down, and the valuable metals and parts extracted. Rapidly growing industry with 25% of EV batteries expected to be from recycled materials in the next 15 years or so.

Yeah, I see charging stations all over the place you just have to know where to look because they are usually hidden from the gas pumps. Not as many as there are gas stations for sure, but they are there.
EVs dont make sense for all that is for sure. I will likely never own one, but for some they do. I have a coworker who has had a Nissan Leaf for like 10 years and that has only like a 50 mile range but she lives only a few blocks from work.

Brittman wrote:

On the battery front. EV batteries are recycled/recovered in that they can be torn down, and the valuable metals and parts extracted. Rapidly growing industry with 25% of EV batteries expected to be from recycled materials in the next 15 years or so.

25% in the next 15 years?? What percentage are being recycled now?
What happens to the other 75%
All this assuming they get disposed of properly. The ones being parked out back too eventually leak out aren’t being counted.
Doesn’t sound like a great argument for the environmental advantage to EVs to me.

glenn57 wrote:

i have yet to see a charging station….anywhere.

You haven’t been to the metro in a while. They’re everywhere. The Maple Grove Target has at least a dozen charging stations, and there are always at least 3-4 cars charging.

Maybe it’s just the area I live and work in, but I see quite a few EVs every day (including during this past week’s cold snap)…lots of Teslas, but some Rivians and others, as well.

EVs aren’t going to improve if we just expect them to be perfect from the get go. Designers and engineers will learn lessons and improve–it’s a process. Part of the process is getting them on the roads.

No, they may not work for everyone, but I definitely think they’ll work well in a lot of situations. I’m personally interested in a Rivian, but I don’t think I can stomach the price.

grubson wrote:

25% in the next 15 years?? What percentage are being recycled now?
What happens to the other 75%
All this assuming they get disposed of properly. The ones being parked out back too eventually leak out aren’t being counted.
Doesn’t sound like a great argument for the environmental advantage to EVs to me.

So what? Is your argument that they aren’t perfect? Nobody ever said they were. All that matters is if it’s better than the alternative or not.

No doubt an issue. I am sure Federal and State governments will line up and hand you money to develop a route to keeping these materials out of the landfills. Opportunity for someone.

As to today’s numbers on recover rate. No idea. I do not follow the green agenda that closely, but keep track on general trends.

That said, you might be surprised at many large corporation’s engagement on green business opportunities vs. spending $$ lobbying to prevent the changes. What was considered economically unfeasible if not technically possible years ago are fast become real. 

Reef W wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>grubson wrote:</div>
25% in the next 15 years?? What percentage are being recycled now?
What happens to the other 75%
All this assuming they get disposed of properly. The ones being parked out back too eventually leak out aren’t being counted.
Doesn’t sound like a great argument for the environmental advantage to EVs to me.

So what? Is your argument that they aren’t perfect? Nobody ever said they were. All that matters is if it’s better than the alternative or not.

Which it is not correct ?

Just need global warming to kick in more then it won’t get so cold and these vehicles will work….

OK i dont live in the cities and i generally avoid it……..i’m 15 miles west of st cloud. i dont see any out this way but your right i dont go about my business looking for them but i’d expect they’d stick out at certain businesses. i no none in cold spring has them.

i head north most my life….. i aint seen one up there much less at like winnie or leech lake public accesses!!!!

i do have a question though…..the places like target, etc….who’s paying the electric bill to charge them??

to the poster who says they recycle them batteries?? to what extent and like another said whatabout the ones that dont. so the intent is your charging with wind power and solar!!!! what are they doing with the wind towers after there shot…….most are getting buried……they cant recycle them……….same with solar panels……..after there life expectancy is up…usally in about 30 years………there a hazardous waste……yep real green!!!!

Bobcat just announced an all-electric skid-steer loader.

It will keep coming … one can be skeptical but do not fear change. Even utilize it where it makes sense for you.

Agencies, countries and Wall Street benchmark publicly traded companies for their “green strategies”. This can impact 401s and pension plans (what few are left).

Brittman wrote:

Bobcat just announced an all-electric skid-steer loader.

It will keep coming … one can be skeptical but do not fear change. Even utilize it where it makes sense for you.

Agencies, countries and Wall Street benchmark publicly traded companies for their “green strategies”. This can impact 401s and pension plans (what few are left).

We have been running electric sherpas and hoes for a long time. This is nothing new. Needed for indoor work. I can first hand tell you the fastest way to wreck productivity is by having battery issues. But most the time we are golden. The problem being is battery life. If it’s being used all day then they won’t last

Reef W wrote:

All that matters is if it’s better than the alternative or not.

Well is it? I don’t think anyone has all the answers on EV. There is no doubt they still have a large carbon footprint if that’s what it is all about. Is it more or less than a gas vehicle I am not sure yet. Someone may already know the answer and likely wouldn’t share it since there are a lot of people and money invested in EV.

glenn57 wrote:

i no none in cold spring has them.

Schwieters Chevrolet does.

Funny how all the cold weather diesel threads are forgotten from years past.

Afaic clickbait

glenn57 wrote:

i do have a question though…..the places like target, etc….who’s paying the electric bill to charge them??

Its just like paying at the gas pump you have to swipe a card and pay per kW or whatever.