Did they actually change or add charges to allow for a more likely hood of a guilty verdict from the jury?
Said on the local tv news yesterday evening that the charges have been amended to allow for lower charges.
I did not spend much time absorbing this trial but I seen some video last night which was of the lawyers and judge discussing lower charges of homicide. Did they actually change or add charges to allow for a more likely hood of a guilty verdict from the jury?
The judge has allowed first OR second degree homicide and first OR second degree attempted homicide as charges. I don’t think that he will be found guilty of first degree homicide or attempted homicide but I can definitely see the second degree charges being guilty.
^That’s my guess too.
2nd degree is looking like a slam dunk after Miu took the stand and gave the prosecution their best evidence of the entire thing. In my opinion had he not took the stand, 1st degree would be impossible to prove and 2nd degree would’ve been a coin toss.
There are ~100k+ people in St. Croix County WI. They couldn’t find a juror who is healthy enough to not pass out during the trial where he decides the fate of someone’s life?
It Sounds like the Judge allowed the prosecution to add lesser charges today. Not an expert but to me that would throw the whole defense off? interesting change of events.
After looking up the definition of first degree murder and attempted murder I don’t know why those charges wouldn’t fit?
The definition of “premeditated” says that it can take just a few moments or seconds to decide you’re going to kill or attempt to kill someone. To me he clearly was thinking about it before doing it.
You don’t have to plan on killing someone for a day or a week for it to be premeditated.
After looking up the definition of first degree murder and attempted murder I don’t know why those charges wouldn’t fit?
The definition of “premeditated” says that it can take just a few moments or seconds to decide you’re going to kill or attempt to kill someone. To me he clearly was thinking about it before doing it.
You don’t have to plan on killing someone for a day or a week for it to be premeditated.
Not common but I disagree with you on this case.
Having a knife in possession is not premeditated. He did not use the knife till he got knocked down in the water and punched. At that point in time things happened pretty fast. The accused did not have the luxury of hindsight and being able to see the future and slow mow things down for review and evaluation before it happened.
You can say that he should have walked away before things escalated but by not doing so should not raise the level of this encounter to 1st degree murder.
Maybe your are just more civilized than I am. 
When do we think the jury’s verdict will be back and read if deliberations start mainly tomorrow?
I will go with Noon Friday
After looking up the definition of first degree murder and attempted murder I don’t know why those charges wouldn’t fit?
The definition of “premeditated” says that it can take just a few moments or seconds to decide you’re going to kill or attempt to kill someone. To me he clearly was thinking about it before doing it.
You don’t have to plan on killing someone for a day or a week for it to be premeditated.
Looking up Wisconsin’s statues for First and Second Degree Intentional Homicide I don’t see the word premeditated, or anything like it, at all. Looks like “Intent to kill” is first-degree unless it falls under one of a few mitigating circumstances. The big ones being “Adequate provocation. Death was caused under the influence of adequate provocation as defined in s. 939.44.” and also “Unnecessary defensive force. Death was caused because the actor believed he or she or another was in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that the force used was necessary to defend the endangered person, if either belief was unreasonable.”
Disclaimer: I am Legaleese illiterate and just googled this all 5 minutes ago
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There are ~100k+ people in St. Croix County WI. They couldn’t find a juror who is healthy enough to not pass out during the trial where he decides the fate of someone’s life?
physical health examinations are not part of the jury selection process
<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>buckybadger wrote:</div>
There are ~100k+ people in St. Croix County WI. They couldn’t find a juror who is healthy enough to not pass out during the trial where he decides the fate of someone’s life?physical health examinations are not part of the jury selection process
Also thinking about having the fate of someone’s life in their hands will keep someone up at night, thus not sleeping and causing that person to nod off during the day. We don’t know the circumstances surrounding this juror so why judge them?
On the subject of the nodding/sleepy juror, they allowed her to remain a juror after discussing it. She fell asleep multiple times and nodded off while they were playing the interrogation video. It was not during witness testimony.
I agree, the stress involved being on that jury is something I hope I never have to go through.
I’m sure she’s not the only juror with sleepless and restless nights, and it just caught up with her.
I’ll tell you what. I watched some of the closing arguments by both parties and the defense argument was extremely well played.
No wonder defense lawyers make so much money. They are generally very good at getting their defendants a not guilty verdict. I don’t think there’s any doubt what this guy did that day but painting him as the victim with self defense is pretty compelling after closing statements. That’s all they have to do, create a shred of reasonable doubt.
I agree, the stress involved being on that jury is something I hope I never have to go through.
I’m sure she’s not the only juror with sleepless and restless nights, and it just caught up with her.
I just read that she was an elderly (90ish) woman. No clue why they would even make someone that old serve, but that tells part of the story on why she nodded off.
Also the ‘witness’ to her sleeping didn’t seem very confident with it and didn’t bother to mention to anyone else during trial, only afterwards. He was also on the prosecution side, and I fully understand why they may want her off the panel. And nobody else in the courtroom noticed her sleeping.
I’ll tell you what. I watched some of the closing arguments by both parties and the defense argument was extremely well played.
No wonder defense lawyers make so much money. They are generally very good at getting their defendants a not guilty verdict. I don’t think there’s any doubt what this guy did that day but painting him as the victim with self defense is pretty compelling after closing statements. That’s all they have to do, create a shred of reasonable doubt.
I watched/listened to it all. The first prosecutor repeated and stammered his way through it. The defense attorney did a good job and the rebuttal by the 2nd prosecutor did a much better job.
I do no think he will get the first degree offenses, but we will see.
I’ll tell you what. I watched some of the closing arguments by both parties and the defense argument was extremely well played.
No wonder defense lawyers make so much money. They are generally very good at getting their defendants a not guilty verdict. I don’t think there’s any doubt what this guy did that day but painting him as the victim with self defense is pretty compelling after closing statements. That’s all they have to do, create a shred of reasonable doubt.
I have been on a jury twice. One was a civil case and 1 was a criminal case. Based on my experience I can say that the general level of common sense in people does not increase just because one has been chosen for jury duty. Sure they ask some questions during the jury pool selection but surely not a test of intelligence. Not much would surprise me of a jury ruling.
Old Joe falls asleep in bigger events than this. LOL
I’d be pretty PO if my future was on the line and a jury member fell asleep, I find it incredibly faulty of the system to allow it.
<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>gimruis wrote:</div>
Also, from what I can tell, initial physical contact is initiated from the group. Not Mui. I guess I also didn’t realize that at least one person from the group tries to hold his head under the water after he is pushed down. This all occurs prior to him using the knife.Hmmm…
But I thought a group of drunken teens were of no threat?
Not worried bout drunk punk kids enough that I pull a blade on em. hand to hand combat and lets go. i don’t buy the fear for his life angle having his head pushed down in ankle deep water. maybe the jury will? or maybe they buy the fact that he doesn’t remember anything? seems like a nice guy that made a bad choice.
Old Joe falls asleep in bigger events than this. LOL
At least he’s not the defendant in a bunch of cases like someone else
And nobody else in the courtroom noticed her sleeping.
Closing your eyes is a defining feature of sleep. For that reason, it may be surprising to learn that some people sleep with their eyes partially or fully open. This condition, known as nocturnal lagophthalmos, is relatively common. Research studies indicate that about 1 in 20 people do not shut their eyes while sleeping.
From this website: https://www.sleepfoundation.org/physical-health/sleeping-with-eyes-open
I see the same dip chits are interjecting politics as always.
I had a chance to watch the full closing arguments now and I think he is going to be found not guilty on all counts. Not necessarily because he is not guilty, but because his defense lawyers have done a stunning job portraying that he is the victim and used self defense against a pack of “drunk and stoned marrading teenagers.” He is definitely not going to be found guilty on the first degree homicide counts. I would say there is about a 50-50 chance he could be found guilty on the second degree accounts. Who knows how long deliberation takes. Could be days.
The prosecutors who spoke in the closing arguments seemed like they would’ve struggled to get more than a C+ in some of the college public speaking courses I had to take.
It was clear the defense had been involved in other big name/media filled moments before, whereas the prosecutors hadn’t.
Seems unfair to the defense to add the additional charges late in the trial. Seems like the prosecution realized the first degree charge was not going to get a verdict.
Had those lesser chares been there prior to the trial, I would assume the defense might have agreed to a plea deal to avoid the trial entirely.
The guy deserved prison time. Not a life sentence IMO.
-J.
Seems unfair to the defense to add the additional charges late in the trial.
I agree 100%. How they can add charges after the fact seems very odd to me.
<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Jon Jordan wrote:</div>
Seems unfair to the defense to add the additional charges late in the trial.I agree 100%. How they can add charges after the fact seems very odd to me.
I think this was another blunder by the DA. Now it makes it appear that they think their case is weak and they are grasping on to whatever they can to geta conviction of some sort.
Guilty all charges
interesting – Verdict – guilty on all counts
The prosecutors who spoke in the closing arguments seemed like they would’ve struggled to get more than a C+ in some of the college public speaking courses I had to take.
It was clear the defense had been involved in other big name/media filled moments before, whereas the prosecutors hadn’t.
pretty much was what I thought……i don’t watch too many court cases but i seen better representation in tv shows.
Jurors have found Nicolae Miu guilty on all counts in a deadly stabbing on the Apple River in 2022.
Miu, 54, was charged with first-degree homicide, attempted first-degree homicide and battery charges stemming from the incident, which killed 17-year-old Isaac Schuman and hurt four others. However, if jurors found the evidence doesn’t reach the level of those charges, they could also consider lesser charges on second-degree homicide, attempted second-degree homicide, reckless homicides and recklessly endangering safety.
That was key, as the jurors unanimously found Miu guilty on all lesser counts — first-degree reckless homicide, four counts of first-degree recklessly endangering safety and battery — not the five highest charges he faced. It comes after around seven hours of deliberations.
His sentencing will take place at a later time.
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