Apple River stabbing incident

Law enforcement officers are on the stand today and giving testimony about their encounters with various individuals after the incident.

Not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but the defendant was not observed to have consumed any alcohol or taken any drugs during the day of the incident, and the St Croix County Sherriff acknowledged that he was completely sober.

Pretty much every other witness thus far has acknowledged that they were either drunk or stoned at the time, or both. Except the defendant.

gimruis wrote:

Pretty much every other witness thus far has acknowledged that they were either drunk or stoned at the time, or both. Except the defendant.

That is going to be this case’s undoing especially considering many if not all were underage.

I was under the impression that the girl who was stabbed first, thought he “hit” her… and I assumed that was when the guy shouted, you don’t hit a girl. From the video also, it showed her putting her hands on him twice, before him reacting to it.

CaptainMusky wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>gimruis wrote:</div>
Pretty much every other witness thus far has acknowledged that they were either drunk or stoned at the time, or both. Except the defendant.

That is going to be this case’s undoing especially considering many if not all were underage.

Should that matter? I dunno.

Being under the influence absolutely should the age issue probably not.

CaptainMusky wrote:

Being under the influence absolutely should the age issue probably not.

They can use it to wreck their credibility. You saw that in the video posted above. They said one thing at the time and then because of poor trial prep they are contradicting themselves, making it easy for the defense.
DT

Repeating what others have mentioned, the attorneys in this case have done a poor job, and did not make it clear as to who touched who and in what order.
As I understand it, but it has not been clearly determined, Miu is surrounded by a mob of young adults and teens (not all were underage, but all admitted to being intoxicated from both alcohol and marijuana) at 2:24:04 in the following video, he clearly looks to be assessing the situation and waves to his group – as if hailing for help, a moment later one young woman puts her hand on him while confronting him verbally, the other woman also seems to push him as if to tell him to get away. According to testimony (not clear on video) at this time he strikes a young woman in the face – not clear if it was open handed or with a fist, or which woman it was since it was off camera – he is immediately and forcefully knocked down onto his back in the water and hit in the head at least once. Before he attempts to stand up, he is holding the knife which he had in his possession (can be seen in his hand while standing in front of the women at 2:24:21 in the video when played in slo mo – just a few seconds after he hails his friends.) His group testified that he had brought the knife. At this point he could be considered guilty of Battery unless one of the young women had contacted him with force, which is again not clear who, when or how.
In the process of beginning to stand back up, he is shoved back down forcefully from behind by young man in yellow shorts, Miu immediately jabs that young man in the stomach with the knife – apparently this is the first stabbing.

Important points in the video (play video at half speed or slower for better detail):
2:24:04 Miu appears to hail friends from his group as if intimidated by the group surrounding him.
2:24:21 Miu is holding the knife in his hand but not pointing it toward others.
2:24:26 Miu is forcefully knocked onto his back into the water and struck in the face.
2:24:30 Miu is forcefully pushed down from behind by yellow shorts guy.
2:24:31 Miu jabs yellow shorts guy in the stomach with the knife while being knocked down by yellow shorts guy.
2:24:38 denim shorts guy puts his hand on Miu’s back and Miu jabs him twice in the stomach at 2:24:39.
2:24:39 Miu quickly jabs at somebody off camera, presumably the deceased since the deceased was stabbed in the heart and Miu appears to strike at that height.
2:24:40 Miu is forcefully shoved with two hands on his throat by someone off camera. Miu stabs this person reactively, but stays on his feet.

Miu then walked toward his original group, at some point he is near the women who originally confronted him. I speculate it is at this time he stabs the one woman in the side of her body, but the video is not clear. This is likely to be the attempted homicide charge that should stick since he could have easily avoided her during his retreat in my opinion.

The video is somewhat graphic, so I will not post a direct link.
search youtube for 9VaEsfrjlEc or Disturbing Video Shows Wisconsin River Stabbings That Left Teen Dead — Day 1

I have been waiting for Madison Cohen to testify (first girl hit).

Turns out she already did and chose not to have it recorded (allowed in WI). She is completely scrubbed from the internet and social media.

Dude is laying in the river bleeding out from his abdomen and the kid is filming it. Not calling cops or assisting the injured. Bizarre

Medical expert testimony is going on today at trial. The responding EMTs, nurses, and surgeons that treated the victims are going into graphic detail about the wounds they encountered that day.

The primary surgeon who treated the victims at Regions Hospital stated they were the worst stab wounds he’s ever seen during his 15 year career.

gimruis wrote:

The primary surgeon who treated the victims at Regions Hospital stated they were the worst stab wounds he’s ever seen during his 15 year career.

Was there an objection to that statement or did they let it go?
DT

deertracker wrote:

Was there an objection to that statement or did they let it go?

I didn’t see it live, I only saw a replay of it. I don’t think there was an objection.

At some point this week, the defendant Nick Mui will be taking the stand. I’ve been trying to find out what day that might be. If anyone knows or can guess as to when that might happen, please post it here. That testimony may make or break the case.

gimruis wrote:

The primary surgeon who treated the victims at Regions Hospital stated they were the worst stab wounds he’s ever seen during his 15 year career.

Very interesting. While the video leaves lot to be desired it was nearly impossible to see where it even happened and the fact their were stab wounds as in plural? Heck, I didnt even see where he stabbed them in the first place.

I haven’t followed closely enough to have all the facts…but questions I have that if answered would help decide my hypothetical jury vote:

1. Did the suspect approach the group (or their area), leave after verbal confronation, and THEN come back with the knife?

2. At what point was the lady stabbed? What was her role in it?

3. Are there any character references/criminal actions related to this guy previously? I get that this was a traumatic experience to everyone involved, but man the footage of him in the squad car fairly relaxed presenting himself as a confused, uninvolved bystander is awfully suspicious.

4. Who made the first verbal contact with the other party? The supsect to the victims or vice-versa?

5. Who made the first deliberate physical contact with the other party? The suspect to the victims or vice-versa?

6. How much time elapsed from the first person being stabbed and the last?

Can they charge him with the worst stab wounds ever… or was the surgeon injecting some of his own drama ? I wonder how many drunk teenagers he has seen over the 15 years, in swim drunks that got stabbed ?

CaptainMusky wrote:

Heck, I didnt even see where he stabbed them in the first place.

You’ll have to go back to the video I posted on page 3. At 1:56 you can see he stabs a teenager in yellow trunks and at 2:05 he stabs another guy twice in the stomach. From the video you can’t tell when he stabs the girl though. That occurred at some point between the two you can see. At 2:03 she realizes she’s been stabbed in the side.

All of these occur after he’s been pushed down.

These three individuals were the wounded that survived. The video does not show the stabbing of the person who died. That person was stabbed in the chest.

Trial is done for the day. Its possible Miu takes the stand tomorrow.

buckybadger wrote:

I haven’t followed closely enough to have all the facts…but questions I have that if answered would help decide my hypothetical jury vote:

1. Did the suspect approach the group (or their area), leave after verbal confronation, and THEN come back with the knife?

2. At what point was the lady stabbed? What was her role in it?

3. Are there any character references/criminal actions related to this guy previously? I get that this was a traumatic experience to everyone involved, but man the footage of him in the squad car fairly relaxed presenting himself as a confused, uninvolved bystander is awfully suspicious.

4. Who made the first verbal contact with the other party? The supsect to the victims or vice-versa?

5. Who made the first deliberate physical contact with the other party? The suspect to the victims or vice-versa?

6. How much time elapsed from the first person being stabbed and the last?

Another question I would have is related to the number of people that were stabbed and how many people actually had physical contact with Miu. It appears that Miu was slapped and pushed down once or twice. So, assume for agreement’s sake, that there were three people that physically contacted him. But five people were stabbed. Are you allowed to stab people in self-defense that did not physically assault you but were just in the vicinity? Is it known if the deceased had any physical contact with Miu? If not, it seems like the jury should find Miu guilty of at least two counts of attempted murder or some type of assault charge, or murder if the deceased had no physical contact with Miu. Or maybe all five people that were stabbed did have physical contact with Miu before being stabbed.

No matter the result, you can’t just go slashing people. In the heat of the moment he should have known his actions come with consequences.
Unarmed dumbass kids who can’t handle the booze are hardly a threat.
It’s one thing if he just stabbed the kid in the yellow out of fear but then he went full psycho and kept slashing…..wtf? Sounds like nobody knew he even had a knife until the one kid was holding his guts in.
I’ll be interested into hearing his testimony if he takes the stand.

eyeguy507 wrote:

No matter the result, you can’t just go slashing people. In the heat of the moment he should have known his actions come with consequences.
Unarmed dumbass kids who can’t handle the booze are hardly a threat.
It’s one thing if he just stabbed the kid in the yellow out of fear but then he went full psycho and kept slashing…..wtf? Sounds like nobody knew he even had a knife until the one kid was holding his guts in.
I’ll be interested into hearing his testimony if he takes the stand.

You really think that?

Beat me to it Stout. Seen plenty of dumb drunk kids unarmed beat the crap out of another and put in hospital. Hell I have seen a group drag another kid out of a pile and put his face on a curb and stomp on his head.
Something I hope to never see again in my life I know that.

Hundreds of accounts of guys getting knocked out cold and dying from hitting their head on the fall, or having extreme brain damage. Phillip Nelson the former gopher QB comes to mind.

eyeguy507 wrote:

I’ll be interested into hearing his testimony if he takes the stand.

I saw they posted that he is likely to take the stand tomorrow afternoon. The prosecution has 2 more witnesses to get through tomorrow morning.

Those kids demonstrated the FAFO theory. You never know who someone is or what they may do.

stout93 wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>eyeguy507 wrote:</div>
No matter the result, you can’t just go slashing people. In the heat of the moment he should have known his actions come with consequences.
Unarmed dumbass kids who can’t handle the booze are hardly a threat.
It’s one thing if he just stabbed the kid in the yellow out of fear but then he went full psycho and kept slashing…..wtf? Sounds like nobody knew he even had a knife until the one kid was holding his guts in.
I’ll be interested into hearing his testimony if he takes the stand.

You really think that?

I’ve watched hours of this and yes I do think that so maybe I’m nieve. He had the choice to just walk away from these drunk idiots. It’s unfortunate.

Eyeguy:
I agree with you to that point early on he had that choice in the first place.
The whole be an adult take the high road what have you. I was just pointing out once they got physical with him that’s when things can change.
See it happen too many times.

Ice Cap wrote:

Those kids demonstrated the FAFO theory. You never know who someone is or what they may do.

What’s odd is I don’t think he said one word during the entire ordeal from start to finish. Almost casually going about his business?

Ripjiggen wrote:

Eyeguy:
I agree with you to that point early on he had that choice in the first place.
The whole be an adult take the high road what have you. I was just pointing out once they got physical with him that’s when things can change.
See it happen too many times.

I was under the impression that he hit or pushed the one gal first and that was when things escalated? It’s one thing if this was at bar close in the back alley but this is mid day in a river with groups of people nearby. He made the choice to pull out the knife. Now he’s got to hope 12 strangers believe his life was in danger.

Yeah I wasn’t defending him by any means was just disagreeing with drunk teens not being a threat.

Dunno glad I am not judge and jury in this one or any for that matter.

Both attorneys have left way too many things vague. After watching and rewatching multiple times, it appears the woman was stabbed at the time of Miu’s second hit (one hit on each woman). In her testimony she says she was punched, but she never mentions that she was punched by a hand holding a knife. Don’t you think as a state attorney that would be absolutely critical testimony and evidence?
Maybe the defense attorney will do better with Miu on the stand in establishing that Miu was terrified for his life, but the possibility is there that the state attorney will do some serious damage to that under cross examination too. Lots of people comment on how Miu seemed to be almost smiling just prior to getting physical, I would make a big deal on how some people seem to smile in the face of a perilous situation – look at what happened to Nick Sandman for instance.
And I still can’t make sense of why the prosecutor would only charge Miu with 1st Degree Intentional Homicide and not something like 2nd Degree or even Manslaughter. He clearly did not intend to murder anyone, and the kid that is deceased came into Miu’s space while Miu was standing in place. Miu clearly had the opportunity to stab denim shorts kid multiple times while he attempted to stand after being knocked down a second time, but did not stab him until denim shorts kid put a hand on Miu from behind – impossible to prove that Miu had intention to kill him. Other than the woman, Miu did not stab a single person that was not contacting or assaulting him – all 4 kids came into his space.
I really believe Manslaughter, Assault With a Deadly Weapon times 5, Attempted Manslaughter, and Battery would have been the correct charges in this case. As I understand it, in WI the jury cannot choose a lesser charge to convict on than what the prosecution charges – in this case if the jury does not convict on 1st Degree Intentional Homicide the next lesser charge is Attempted Homicide (4 counts.) Enough to put Miu away for years, but probably an extreme disappointment to all the victims and families.

Sure he could have walked away at some point in time but there is a big difference from yelling and heckling compared to physical contact. Once the physical contact happened things went pretty fast. How was the accused to expect that this would turn physical?

This happening in the water had another impact. If I was going to get pushed/shoved down I would surely prefer dirt instead of water. I would imagine getting pushed/shoved down in the water would add a bit of panic in a normal person.

It does not look like Miu went chasing after anyone with the knife.

For those who think he shouldn’t have defended himself… I am reminded of a guy who took one sucker punch at a local resort and lost his life. He tried ignoring the drunk guy too.